Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

--freeride-- said:
The BBS 02 is a nice smooth and very strong Pedal on unit and not for going 30mph on a straight road without pedaling... So the fail is the user...
Click to expand...

I am inclined to disagree I have rode full throttle on my bbs02 for dozens and dozens of miles straight, maxing out the amps from start to stop, shifting, without stopping the motor, as soon as the amps start to fall. I have drove 30mph for 15 miles straight with no issues at all. The BBS02 can handle all of these things no problem. I didn't finally fry the controller until after 1500 miles when i got greedy trying to go up a steep hill from a dead stop in 3rd gear and didin't let off after a second of not moving. Replacing the controller was pretty darn easy, only cost me $100, and now has better FETs.

I never had an issue with the plastic gear. It never showed signs of heavy wear.

When you consider how much more copper mass the new bbs-hd is going to get and how it's only going to be getting 5 more amps, I can't help but think this is going to be great.
 
LyonNightroad said:
I have drove 30mph for 15 miles straight with no issues at all. The BBS02 can handle all of these things no problem.
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Have you ever felt the case when riding like this with a high ambient temp? I can easily get a BBS02 too hot for my comfort on a ride like that. By saying it can handle this with 'no problem' perhaps you mean with no catastrophic event yet? It heats to stupid temps with stock gearing when run at top speed and high load. Thanks for sharing your story about stalling the motor and burning the controller. It helps to weigh your level of understanding of these systems when adding your input about the design.
 
ecycler said:
LyonNightroad said:
I have drove 30mph for 15 miles straight with no issues at all. The BBS02 can handle all of these things no problem.
Click to expand...

Have you ever felt the case when riding like this with a high ambient temp? I can easily get a BBS02 too hot for my comfort on a ride like that. By saying it can handle this with 'no problem' perhaps you mean with no catastrophic event yet? It heats to stupid temps with stock gearing when run at top speed and high load. Thanks for sharing your story about stalling the motor and burning the controller. It helps to weigh your level of understanding of these systems when adding your input about the design.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thinly veiled insult. Thanks for assuming that since my experience does not align with yours I must be dumb. I do not experience particularly excessive motor or controller temps under the conditions I described. Thanks for assuming that since I was in a situation on some single track where I was more focused on getting up a big hill than thinking about my motor (for just a few moments but that's all it took) that I don't actually understand the damaging effects of waste heat. I provided that example not to show that I was ignorant but to show that absolute abuse is what it took to cause failure.

Ultimately the part that failed, a 79 cent P75NF75 FET, has since been upgraded.

Besides, if it can survive someone with my level of understanding for 1500 miles, surely it could do much better in the hands of someone more competent. The plastic gear that everyone is so afraid of is hardly worn (now after 2000 miles with a new controller).

Don't get me wrong, My experience is only one data point. It could be some combination of gearing, bike setup, aero, the fact that I don't get particularly high ambient temps (85f max) up here, etc. that makes my experience good. I also heavily rely on my watt meter to help me make sure I am right on the edge of the curve and not generating tons of waste heat. When my goal is max acceleration I don't shift to the next gear until the amps start to fall on the previous gear, this ensures that I am not in an area of the curve where tons of waste heat is generated.

On second glance, when I look at the tone of my first message it does seem like I am speaking for all units. To clarify, this is my experience.
 
I am planning a Fatbike build and am trying to decide between the 02 and the HD. I have a 68mm BB so I could use either of them in theory, but I wondered if the HD would position the crank arms farther apart than the 02? This would mean that I would avoid using an offset crank on the LH side......
The bike is a fixie Fatbike from Bikes Direct and I am being guided by Kurts similar build over at Electric-Fatbike.com. The bike is my first eBike build and will be used mostly on fire roads in the Santa Monica Mtns. If all goes well initially, it will get upgraded with better wheels, a Bluto and a Nuvinci 171 so having some headroom for hot summer days could be an advantage to the HD over the 02.
Any comments before I drive over to see LunaCycle and drop big bucks? I know that Eric has both in stock.....
 
Karl just posted another review of a fatbike with the BBSHD, and I think he hit the nail on the head...

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/11...000w-10-speed-ebike-51lbs-1850-w-out-battery/

If Luna Cycle is out of the battery pack you want, they are re-stocked on a regular basis. But, if you want one and its on the shelf, you might want to get it as soon as you can, to avoid the re-order wait for the next batch.
 
I am going to go over and see Eric in a day or two, meanwhile, does anyone know if the crankshaft is longer on the HD than on the 02? And is there a difference in crankshaft length between the 100/120mm HD and the 68mm versions? Inquiring minds would like to know....... :lol:

Edit: I am also wondering if a 68mm HD would fit onto a 100mm BB w/o alteration allowing me a clear upgrade path without buying another HD.
 
@spiningmagnets:

I just measured in CAD, BCD on the ring is exakt 60mm Center hole is good at 50.2mm. Screw clearance holes can be drilled at 5.5mm.
 
The 32 T gives a terrible chain line on this kit. Agree, it would reduce the torque demands on the gearing, but it would be much better with larger fins and stronger gears even for folks running them easy. The weakest link needs to be external, not internal IMO. It can generate the torque, but can not last delivering it, makes it a short lived item. It is just plain old "poor quality" /low product robustness engineered into the product.
Click to expand...

Yes putting a small 32 Chainring on would help make the plastic gear last longer. But you cannot fit one due to the fundamental design problem of the BBS02 , which is that they have taken the place of where the chainwheels should be and put a gearbox their ! hence whatever you do that chainline will be very bad and you can only have 1 chainwheel and to top it off you cannot put small chainwheels on as it needs to be offset ..

The BBSHD is even worse to handle the power they have made that gear even wider, hence why you see a very funky offset chain wheel to try and make up for it .. but again you cannot fit a smaller ring or have dual front rings.

Whatever you do it makes the chain line very bad and worse on the BBSHD , which means frequent chaindrops or bad chain wear. Also you cannot have a small chainwheel let alone a dual front chainwheel like the other kits. The other kits like the AFT/cyclone and GNG all have DUAL You can put on as small a chainwheel as you like and you have the flexibility of two front chainrings for high speed or high load operation. If the Bafang had room for dual front rings it would stop the overheating and breaking of the plastic gear... but their is NO ROOM to put it as they have used that for the gearbox....

In other words big compromises have been made to make this work that are exentuated on the BBSHD.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Karl just posted another review of a fatbike with the BBSHD, and I think he hit the nail on the head...

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/11...000w-10-speed-ebike-51lbs-1850-w-out-battery/

If Luna Cycle is out of the battery pack you want, they are re-stocked on a regular basis. But, if you want one and its on the shelf, you might want to get it as soon as you can, to avoid the re-order wait for the next batch.
Click to expand...


That is good to hear.
I cant wait until mine ships out.
 
Yes putting a small 32 Chainring on would help make the plastic gear last longer. But you cannot fit one due to the fundamental design problem of the BBS02 , which is that they have taken the place of where the chainwheels should be and put a gearbox their ! hence whatever you do that chainline will be very bad and you can only have 1 chainwheel and to top it off you cannot put small chainwheels on as it needs to be offset ..
Click to expand...

On the bbs02 a 32T smaller ring would make pedaling with the motor worse than it is now. No issue if you don't pedal much. This cadence issue has improved much with the HD going by the review. Stock chain line is not a issue with the bbs02 for most bikes and still not wide enough to clear many fat tires. You could add a second ring up front if you wanted top end speed, but for most folks 30 mph is plenty. Interested to see what the minimum size offset ring will fit on the HD.
 
Dogboy1200 said:
TorEddy said:
Yet another Electric-Fatbike.com BBSHD review by Karl Gesslein:
http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/11/13/this-is-why-they-hate-us-bbshd-1000w-singletrack-testing/

Looks like I might try one afterall..
Click to expand...
Me too! I've got a BBS02 and wanted to upgrade but the reviews didn't sound good. This one is just what I wanted to hear for exactly the type riding I do.
Click to expand...

There has only been a couple of reviews.
A 1000w system is not going to have high speed, it just isn't.


The description on LunaCycle had it right from the beginning. A more robust\reliable bbs02 pretty much.

To the guys that want highspeed than go hub with 72-100v.

I may go dual motor not sure yet.
 
Just ordered my BBSHD and their Bling Ring from Luna! Same place I got my BBS02 from a couple of months ago. Took some measurements and looks like I can put the BBS02 on my sons bike.
 
I built up a Deadeye Monster fat bike last night using a BBSHD and it was a straight bolt-on job. No shims, no spacers, no clearance issues and no offset crank arm needed. I used a 100mm HD from Luna Cycles and their tie-wrap triangle bag with their 20ah triangle battery. NOTE: I have a 17" frame and the battery and bag were a very tight fit in the triangle, smaller frames might not accept this battery.

I cannot give enough credit to Karl at electric-fatbike.com for his well written articles and for doing all the hard work developing his "recipes". Eric and Mark at Luna Cycles deserve thanks too for being so helpful and for having such high qualit products at such reasonable prices.

I will take some pictures before I go out and thrash it on the fire roads in the Santa Monica Mtns and will post up a riding report
 
speedmd said:
What bb option did you go for, how big a sprocket (tooth count) and what bike frame is it going on. Look forward to the report.
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I'm putting on this bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73635. It's got a 68 mm BB and I'm getting a 42 tooth Bling Ring. Can't wait to try it out!
 
I'm running 12S 8AH right now. That gave me about 10-12 mi of tight fast single track like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXlwqQjaGhk. The HD Probably won't go as far and even with the BBS02 I was thinking of doubling the capacity to 16AH. I have 2 of these https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=56843 and will probably get 2 more. They are very small and light for their capacity and hardly get warm even when I'm dogging it. On the other hand, might just have to with on of the 14S packs from Luna!
 
Right when the heat issues of BBS02 appear to be solved.... a new HD version comes out, that can take the heat. Perhaps there will be efficiency gains and longer gear life from cooling the HD too?

http://craftzman.blogspot.com/2015/11/electric-bike-build.html
 
I spent Saturday thrashing the Deadeye on the fire roads behind my home. Late Sunday I topped up the LunaCycles 52v triangle pack and went for a short ride with the GPS on the bike. As soon as I got back I charged the battery again to see how much it needed. I went 9.29 miles in 45 minutes for a 10 mph average on 5.45ah of electricity. I was running a BBSHD/46t and the stock 22t rear and the stock tires were at 10psi. The pack is 20ah so at 1.70ah/mi I have a theoretical range of 34 miles. I was pretty heavy on the throttle and was in PAS 4 of 5 when ascending and PAS 0 using the throttle on the descents.
I am very happy with the build and now intend to start the upgrade process starting with gears (I have a 42t Luna Cycles chainwheel on order) and tires (?).
 
Thanks for posting that. Those numbers look realistic. The BBSHD wont grow hair on a bald man, or erase wrinkles, but...its reasonably good at what it was designed for.

Since you are not using anywhere near the full 20-Ah per usual ride...Justin has posted that these types of batteries have a significant improvement in their life-cycles if you only charge up to 4.10V per cell, and there is another bump in life if charged to only 4.05V per cell. At 4.00V per cell, there is no extra improvement. There is a only a tiny loss of range, the voltage at 4.20V per cell drops off almost immediately.

52V / 14S charged to

4.20V / 4.10V / 4.05V would be
58.8V / 57.4V / 56.7V
 
spinningmagnets said:
Thanks for posting that. Those numbers look realistic. The BBSHD wont grow hair on a bald man, or erase wrinkles, but...its reasonably good at what it was designed for.

Since you are not using anywhere near the full 20-Ah per usual ride...Justin has posted that these types of batteries have a significant improvement in their life-cycles if you only charge up to 4.10V per cell, and there is another bump in life if charged to only 4.05V per cell. At 4.00V per cell, there is no extra improvement. There is a only a tiny loss of range, the voltage at 4.20V per cell drops off almost immediately.

52V / 14S charged to

4.20V / 4.10V / 4.05V would be
58.8V / 57.4V / 56.7V
Click to expand...

do you have discharge graph showing that on multiple cells?
 
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