Bafang rear geared brushless test

[John in CR]

Don't you get it yet? SHEEEET!

What exactly is it that you think I don't get?

Someone buys a motor from you or your counterpart in China, and has a configuration problem with his existing controller, so he orders a controller from you guys. Why shouldn't he expect the proper wiring configuration of the motor you guys sold him to the controller you guys sold him to be "handed to him on a silver platter"? Why can I not reasonably expect the same, when I'm currently running the controller you recommended and sold to me a couple of months ago, and I have a new motor and new controller in route from you now? I see no reason that I should have to play the color code guessing game unless I introduce an unknown motor or an unknown controller into the equation. Yet you linked me to a thread that explains how to do it from scratch. Of course I won't go straight to my final permanent wiring without first testing it with my bike upside down, but I see no reason that I shouldn't be able to connect the wires correctly on the first attempt. That is unless the Bafangs or Infineons are inconsistent in their own color coding from one unit to the next, which would really surprise me.

This gets back to a suggestion I made some time ago in another thread, that we should develop a database of known motors and known controllers. Then we could all easily mix and match with no trial and error guesswork on the wiring. Imagine the man hours wasted on wiring guesswork by the people in this forum. That includes your time used to provide customer service for wiring problems. It's a real and unnecessary pain in the butt, even for those who try the different combinations in a systematic manner.

Still think I "don't get it"??????????

John

 

[docnjoj]

Unfortunately, a while back I learned that Kenny of Crystalyte fame used "what ever colors he had enuff of that day" for wiring controllers! I believe that other manufacturers in China also do that still! Its one of the prices of cheep goods. Standards would be wonderful, but its gonna take us to develop them and make them international. Till then, its still the wild west! Be ready to do the mating dance, John and others (myself included) Knuckles was very helpful last time around!
otherDoc
edit: A database would be great, provided that the manufacturers followed it also!

 

[Knuckles]

For the Bafang Motor and Infineon Controller a correct combination is "Blue to Blue".

Make the Blue controller phase wire connect to the Blue motor phase wire and switch the other two phase wires Yellow to Green and Green to Yellow.

Make the Blue controller hall wire connect to the Blue motor hall wire and switch the other two hall wires Yellow to Green and Green to Yellow.


But if you just buy a motor or just buy a controller then I STRONGLY urge that you go thru the testing process described here ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484#p81888

It is so easy to do and it ensures a perfect setup every time.

 

[docnjoj]

According to USPS tracking my Infineon should be here today! Yahoo or something like that! I definitely will use Knuckles method to see if it performs better than the old Crystalyte.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Okey Dokey! I wired up the new Infineon controller to the Bafang and SHAZAAM! SMOOTH AS SILK AND 1.7 AMPS NO LOAD! It was all a problem with the old Crystalyte! No motor screech and smooth as silk! Ill ride tomorrow and report on load amp draw, but to say I was amazed was an understatement! Knuckles and Keywin rule!
otherDoc

 

[Knuckles]

SHAZAAM! Happy Happy Joy Joy :wink: :wink: :wink: 8)

And was the color combo you chose ... For the Infineon and Bafang ... "Blue to Blue"? ...

Halls
B-B
G-Y
Y-G

Phase
B-B
G-Y
Y-G



Your Humble Servants ...
Knuckles and (Crazy F'n) Keywin :wink:
BUXIE

Chinese Lesson #1:
If someone says "谢谢你" or "xie xie" or "toa chie" or "thank you" ...
You may reply "不谢" or "buxie" or "de nada" or "not need thank" or "不用谢" or "budongxie" or "no need to thank - It is my honor" or " F'n'A Bro ... No worries mate"

Heck I should be at the freakin UN! 8)

 

[docnjoj]

First one on the little spreadsheet of known good ones worked like a charm. Gotta check! I still dont know why the Crystalyte didnt work?
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

This makes it MUCH easier to set up Infineon and Bafang! You could now standardise the connections!
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

We have liftoff!!!! 10.2 miles with the Infineon/Bafang and its like a new motor! Smooth, powerful starts with no screech and the quietest gear motor I have ever driven! What an amazing difference due only to the controller change! Additionally, although I wont know till I recharge (rode without telemetry) the little lights on the throttle stayed on till the end. I believe there was a significant drop in wh/hr use! I highly recommend the Bafang/ Infinion combo highly! I can see where more power could make this a really insane combo, in fact I am going to 48 volts on my next Ping! Woo Woo
otherDoc

 

[Knuckles]

Ha ha! YOU SO CRAZY! :lol:

 

[wasp]

where do you order these motors?
how much?

 

[docnjoj]

PM Knuckles!
otherDoc

 

[wasp]

PM Knuckles!
otherDoc

thx doc

 

[Mark_A_W]

Guys, what size cluster are you using on your rear wheel Bafang motors?

I've picked one up, and after a bit of work with a lathe, I can get the motor installed in my frame with a disc brake mounted (holder on backwards, screws countersunk), and a 7 speed cluster.

But I'd have to dish the rim past vertical to get the rim and tyre to clear the frame.

With a 5 speed it would be much better, but then I'll need to replace the crankset, as I want to go 45km/h, pedalling hard, and NEED an 11 tooth sprocket at the rear for those speeds with a 44 tooth ring gear.

Advice appreciated!!

 

[docnjoj]

Bafang rear with Infineon update! Went riding with my 48 volt 5 ah Nicads and the motor LOVES it. Much smoother off the line and smooth power right up the scale! I'll stick telemetry on it today (WattMeter) but 48 volts at 20 ah looks like the big LiFePo4 expense this year! Really quiet at the higher voltages, I thinks cause it gets out of low speed "vibration mode" sooner! We only did 6 miles cause the rains came! Will try for 10+ today!
otherDoc

 

[J Barrie Wilkinson]

Doc, I am talking to johnrobholms about getting a Bafang motor in a 20" wheel for my Sun tadpole. I also have a Revive and have been swapping a 408/412 between the two bikes which is a pita. Any suggestions for freewheel ? I have requested 34-11 7 speed. Thanks for all the info on your tests it has given me the confidence to try it also. The recumbent trike is nice for fall and winter, it gives stability when there are ice patches around, here in sunny BC. I am 72 and don't bounce like I used to when I hit the road.

 

[Mark_A_W]

11-34 won't fit.

Read my post above - you'll have to dish the wheel past the spoke attachments on the cluster side. Like a cone = both sets of spokes heading towards the cluster.

 

[docnjoj]

Well, once again I found out the hard way that 4.5 amp Nicads even at 48 volts wont go 10 miles! Ran out at about 6mi, had to pedal 300+ lbs of trike and me home! Wife cheered me on (I think hoping to collect the insurance money ) but I made it! Anyway the Bafang worked great until I ran outa juice! Back to NiMh and 42 volts until the 30th when the new BS Nimh cells (10x10 amps) show up. then 48 volts for sure! Mine still going about 26 wh/mile. Motor seems very understressed, especially when it runs out of battery!

J Barrie. I have no dish on my rear wheel and a 5 speed but if the rear triangle is steel U can put whatever U want on it for gears. Just cold bend carefully! I have 2 front discs and no brakes on the rear!
otherDoc

 

[J Barrie Wilkinson]

Mark and Doc, thanks for the heads up, I have requested a smaller cluster.

Barrie

 

[Nogwin]

re-Bafang front motor. Xlyte 36-72v running with 60V NiMH - Tenergy Sub C's - 2 strings of 60v

I'm on mile ~850 now - a few weeks of commuting and pleasure riding/photography.
Not any issues to report. Motor as good as new. My Spokes (that I laced up) are still tight - even after hours of off roading!

Today rode with a massive tailwind and rode 15 miles max throttle at 30mph and the whr/mile at the end was 7.7!
I did get dropped by my friend riding his carbon road bike, and who was in front at 34mph and getting out of sight- I waved to him to slow up as I could not get over 30!

Average whr over 25 miles ea. way (includes 6 miles off road) is 235wh. Ride takes about 1 hour and a few min.

Very happy with the little motor!
Nog

 

[banmac]

I'm not sure whether this is the best thread and I'm new to this subject of electric bicycles, but here goes...

What are the pro/cons of a Bafang geared brushless vs a BMC (chinese origin not india), laced into a 26" rear on a hybrid for commuting to/from work (10km each way), with moderate hills along the way?

I'm looking to make a choice for my 1st project...

There appears to be proponents of both types across this forum, so I will understand if there is a degree of subjectivity in any responses.

Many thanks.

 

[docnjoj]

Quick update on 48 volts/Bafang rear! Very nice. Just enuff extra power on the hills to actually help. Actually running fewer wh/hr/mi than on 42 volts/ Maybe I come off the throttle earlier cause of the extra power availible. This is as high as my Astro charger will go, but 60 volts is only $100 away! Hmmm. Knuckles, do I need a new controller?
otherDoc

 

[Nogwin]

Bafang update

Now I'm on mile 1,200 and running flawlessley at 66V NImH. Still averaging 9-11whr/mi. Friday went as fast I could (26-30mph) for 20 miles and really
enjoyed the ride.

I noticed my habit is to always pedal from a stop to 3mph and then gently roll on the throttle. I keep watts around 600 then settle for a 250-350W cruise power. I'm guessing this is what prevents the gear metldown others have observed. Using the Xlyte controller and throttle, I've noticed the throttle needs to be turned to the last bar (~80% of max) to get any appreciable acceleration. Perhaps on the other controllers the same power may come on at perhaps a 1/4 turn..

Nog

 

[Nogwin]

Last checked, I was on mile 1400, and likely will have another 100 more by friday. (46mi/day rt)
Ran at 80V last week for a 'test' and was impressed to say the least. Started very easy from stops - pedal to 10mph then roll on throttle to around 600W.
Once at 25mph, then go to full throttle to around 34mph max speed. Must say it feels like the 5303 at 48V!

I noticed everyone else with a Bafang already broke their plastic gears, so I must be the odd one here. I reverted back to 66V and will keep it there.

Efficiency is very good. Bike has 700c x 28c wheel on back for rolling efficiency and a nice 2" slick on the front. I run 4 parallel 48v SubC's (batteryspace 4.5ahr) and each pack really delivers 3.3ahr consistently. If I run the motor at 12A (rarely) then each pack sees around 3A.
So overall, efficiency is 10whr/mi over a thousand miles, and around 200whr/20mi (20mph avg speed + avg pedaling)

Summary -

Love the motor and its fantastic efficiency and torque. Would prefer 80v operation, but until better gears are available, 66V is max

Nog

 

[docnjoj]

Nogwin

I agree about power level and smoothness! I'm wondering whether startup weight has a lot to do with gear mulch. I run 20" wheel, and also pedal to start. But my trike and me weigh 300+ lbs, so the torque required may absolutely need a steel gear included. Are U and your setup light, cause the 700C wheels should make the problem of startup worse!??? My battery is Ping 48v/20Ah.
otherDoc