Bafang ultra max 2.2kw EXCESS controller

[Tom]

The cool thing about WW is they are built with open platform philosophy to make it easier to upgrade:

https://wattwagons.com/pages/commuter_companion

For example, if you bought an ultra with the old controller you will be able to upgrade to the new controller at minimal cost. They are giving priority to existing customers but eventually may extend to other customers (at much higher cost). As I understand it's a bit of work involved with the new controllers since each motor needs to be individually tuned.

BTW, last chance for anyone to get in on the new integrated frame design at lowest cost with founder perks. There is a lot of value here for $5499 + shipping. Here is the component spec.

 

[Deafcat]

Yep far as investment goes Watt Wagon is a great purchase, Pushkar is very willing to innovate and the continuous improvement/upgrade program is a real treat for those of us seeking to support that innovation, and keep our bikes at top spec (with the huge advantage of those spec improvements being researched+developed professionally!).

For high mileage ebike commuting/touring, there is not a better pre-built ebike on the market in my opinion at this time.

 

[FlyingFinn]

I spoke on the phone with Exess bikes. They don’t offer the Innotrace controller anymore unless installed on their bike. They told me that Innotrace will be selling the controller separately.

You can get the controller installed by Innotrace directly. 390€ + 39€ install.

 

[Monte]

Does anyone have legitimate contact details for Innotrace or confirmation of the legitimacy of these details?

I've found this facebook profile (but they answer questions related to their product badly, so unsure of legitimacy): https://www.facebook.com/Innotrace-GmbH-118617899537141/

And this sales listing on a german "ebay"?:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/bafang-ultra-controller-innotrace-x1/1464042422-217-9105

As the company doesn't seem to have web pages, I'd be a bit worried ordering off of this German site, as it could just be a scam attempt.

 

[Daxxie]

Does anyone have legitimate contact details for Innotrace or confirmation of the legitimacy of these details?

I've found this facebook profile (but they answer questions related to their product badly, so unsure of legitimacy): https://www.facebook.com/Innotrace-GmbH-118617899537141/

And this sales listing on a german "ebay"?:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/bafang-ultra-controller-innotrace-x1/1464042422-217-9105

As the company doesn't seem to have web pages, I'd be a bit worried ordering off of this German site, as it could just be a scam attempt.

I had a talk with Rico from Innotrace and made a post in the FB Bafang G510 group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2323768714344360/permalink/3056734977714393/








They claim:
- Up to 2500Watt.
- Max 60V
- Works with standard display (optional display with more functions available)
- smoother driving for more control of the bike and the power delivery
- Short Circuit Protection.
- 35% Less power consumption.
- Overheating protection
- Displaying Correct Battery level


Only possible on the later Ultra's with magnets on the rotor.
Not available for the latest Can-Bus versions (They are working on that)
You get your old controller back!

Pricing:

Complete Motor incl. Innotrace Controller with all necessarry parts 1199€

or replacing your controller:

Send your motor to Innotrace
New Inno-trace Controller 390€
Installing and calibration 39€
+ Shipping costs.

 

[brabantbike]

I bought a bafang ultra with x1 controller from innotrace. It is legit and fast as hell.

 

[brabantbike]

I have rebuild a cube stereo hybrid 160. Sold the bosch system and put in the new battery and bafang motor. Took me a lot of work I think 3 weeks and still not finished.

But it is the best bike ever for me. I like to ride trails very fast in second power rating. With te occasional thumbgas for riding over whoop sections. The motor has a little lag so changing gears is a pain in the ass except for powermode 1 ( there are five).

With manual throtle you have to make sure to be in a big enough rear gear or the chain wil pull over the sprocket. I have an ex1 cassette and derailleur which does not work good anymore in some gears because some bolt got loose and pulled the cog in the cassette. Anyway I think a derailleur sucks with high power. I try to change gears not to often.

With a 1000wh 14s5p (4000ma molicel, 21700, 45 amp) i can ride hard and fast on mtb trails and do about 50km. I could do 40 km with the bosch (500wh battery) in legalmode not going faster than 28. Now I regularly ride 40km/h on trails. Average is 27km/h now. I am wondering if a rohlof could handle the power better under gearshifting.

Wit higher speeds the suspension is barely coping. My former downhill with aden kit had much better suspension for fast riding. Aden kit is only good for going up hill in my opinion, or mx style riding with throttle.

Still have to make a custom battery cover because the battery is too big.

 

[Monte]

Looks good! I'll have to tell them not to replace the bafang sticker with that ugly one though...

Been talking with them on facebook now about buying the Ultra with their controller and getting the original bafang controller as a spare.

Then I just need to figure out how to make it take a few more volts Planning to run 26S LTO (60V nominal 72 fully charged)...

I'm also planning Rohloff or Kindarnay, haven't decided which yet. Kindarnay for the higher torque rating and thru-axle design or rohloff for the electronic shifter and a longer time on the market to prove it works well...

 

[barbarossa]

Hi !
Finally I also joined the "Innotrace club". it is really amazing !!!
two weeks ago I could talk with the developper of the controller - a really nice guy. I could test ride a prototype of Exess HP-E200 equipped with an Innotrace controller - that is a really perfect mountain bike - it looks so awesome.
Anyways I ordered with a power limit of 3500 watts max and 80 amps max. and in fact… it rocks !!!! During a short test ride (it is raining) it took around 67 amps resulting in 3460 watts - almost exactly what I ordered :thumb:
these amps are transferred perfectly to more rpms (140% field weakening are used) in an incredible smooth way. not such a stress for the drive train like the original controller did… I don't know how Innotrace realized that perfect torque sensing but that little 170 Mhz ARM chip does its work really perfectly !
Neptune 15 BMS:

( I know not balanced perfectly but it is only my 15S5P LG HG2 test battery charged up to 58,8 volts - I will build a better 14S5P with Sony VTC6 cells)
this controller eats amperes in comparison to original controller (even with shunt mod)- but is so so so so smooth. fantastic !!!!

I waited for a long time because it is not possible to configure anything so far. but to be honest: there is nothing to configure !!! this controller convinced me - all my ASI BAC 800 and phaserunner ideas are gone...

I am really happy and I would say : best buy ever !!!

PS. you can't use more than 59,5 volts - low voltage chip will refuse work otherwise and mosfets are the other problem - I had same idea to use more volts… but hey, after my first test ride I prefer to build high powered 14S batteries instead… :lol:

 

[Daxxie]

I waited for a long time because it is not possible to configure anything so far. but to be honest: there is nothing to configure !!! this controller convinced me - all my ASI BAC 800 and phaserunner ideas are gone...

You convinced me also
Will order one.
Does it come with any software?
Can you use the original display?
I heard they also have an optional one.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Innotrace will be providing full programming support within few weeks for 59€. An adapter will be announced.

 

[barbarossa]

Does it come with any software?
Can you use the original display?
I heard they also have an optional one.

It comes with no software so far. but FlyingFinn is right. yesterday I had a phone call with the developper. as soon as it is ready he will send me the cable and software. He told me exactly the things that can be changed - wow, I was really blown away - there are e.g. 10 levels of torque sensing. you can combine each level with an assist mode and a specific power setting, you e.g. make your assist mode 1 the strongest and assist mode 5 weaker etc. wow, wow,wow...

You can use any original Bafang display for BBS/Ultra motors with original Bafang display firmware - Innotrace supports Bafang protocol. EggRider will not work - seems to be a problem of the sometimes weird protocol usage of EggRider. I am minimalistic and EggRider is simply a Bafang SW102 display with modified firmware. so now I use the Bafang SW102 which works perfectly with the Innotrace controller and was only 46 USD shipped (aliexpress shipped from German location). but of course any Bafang display should work...


I have heard that they also sell a modified display but I never asked them about that display. so to be honest : I don't know.

 

[barbarossa]

meanwhile I can report some additional things concerning the Exess controller :

HEAT:
I check my motor heat by touching the motor winding side and controller side regularly. I know it is not scientific but over the years I have become a feeling for Bafang Ultra motor heat.
The guys at Innotrace were wondering that I often touched the controller side during the test rides but hey that's my method
anyways. original controller motor side (modded or unmodded) was always warmer than motor windings side - in case of shunt mod it got really hot after a while. now it is vice versa and the motor windings side is warmer - Exess controller side is only hand warm. I was a little confused so I tested again and again.
this controller seems to have a very high efficiency. I could not get it hot at all. of course running a massive cooler controller results in a cooler motor windings side. and in fact the motor windings side also stays a little cooler - though I am running the motor at slightly higher wattage as before (3100 watts max with modded original controller in comparison to around 3500 watts max now). I used lower amps (around 45 amps) before with modded original controller and now Exess controller goes up to around 70 amps - normally motor windings side should be warmer - but it's the opposite case. amazing.

this week I will remove all my brake motor cutoffs ( Magura pressure cutoffs). you simply don't need it anymore.

I will wait a few weeks and perhaps I will also remove the gear sensor. now shifting is perfect - now the motor does not run longer than I pedal not even a part of a second. so there is no danger anymore for bad shifts which during my trips I had a few times before - not often but it happened under some cirumstances with original controller though I was very careful.

only downside: 6v light output does not work anymore and I have a Supernova M99 mini (5-12 volts input). it "works" but it is only switched to GND (ground) when you activate the lights at the display. 6v or 12v voltage step down might have been a problem for efficiency in controller construction. but a simple mosfet with a step down DC/DC converter to 12v connected directly to my battery and I can turn on my Supernova front light using the display button again... so no real problem. running the light at 12v instead of 6v will provide a brighter light anyways.

cheers !

 

[Tom]

Welcome to the club. Not only is the motor significantly smoother and more refined, but I'm seeing at least 20% improvement in range. I've been singing the praises of this controller since I got it and some might think I'm gushing and fawning too much, but no, it's really that much better. I feel bad for those that don't know better.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Welcome to the club. Not only is the motor significantly smoother and more refined, but I'm seeing at least 20% improvement in range. I've been singing the praises of this controller since I got it and some might think I'm gushing and fawning too much, but no, it's really that much better. I feel bad for those that don't know better.

I confirm your views. The more you use the motor the more it saves. In highest assist modes the saving can be up to 50%.

The only bad thing I can say about the motor now is slight vibration at very slow speed when starting to pedal from standstill.

Otherwise this thing is superb!

 

[john61ct]

Can anyone compare to the Nucular 24F?

 

[barbarossa]

The only bad thing I can say about the motor now is slight vibration at very slow speed when starting to pedal from standstill.

strange! I made around 20-25 starts from standstill today under different circumstances and I could not feel any vibration at all.

I think it starts in sensor mode and then changes to sensorless. Maybe the digital hall sensor and magnet are not aligned perfectly anymore. Maybe.
mmmmmhhhhhhh...strange behaviour...
could you describe ist more exactly?

 

[Tom]

I get a little vibration stopped at a light with leg resting on pedal and slight force from partial body weight. Not any big deal though. I'd think this is normal as I've experienced similar with other torque sensing motors.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Every motor is different. Just barely noticeable. Doesn’t bother me at all.

 

[FlyingFinn]

I don’t know what is happening but this motor just feels smoother and smoother.

Can’t praise this controller enough. At ECO2 we are getting the Shimano E8000 buttery smooth. With SPORT 1-5 it’s still silent and smooth but just pulls like tugboat.

Have to be really careful since my frame is partially broken. Can’t go to trails...

 

[2Slow]

I don't believe Watt Wagons is going to sell those controllers separate either, like the Excess controller they come with the motor pre-calibrated. Buy a whole motor/bike or no dice!

Bafang's factory specifications demand motor to be re-calibrated every time it has been open. I think, it's got something to do with torque sensor alignment. With this in mind, you can see why some companies will apply same strategy.

 

[2Slow]

I don’t know what is happening but this motor just feels smoother and smoother.

Can’t praise this controller enough. At ECO2 we are getting the Shimano E8000 buttery smooth. With SPORT 1-5 it’s still silent and smooth but just pulls like tugboat.

Have to be really careful since my frame is partially broken. Can’t go to trails...

@FlyingFinn
How do you find start from stand-still? OEM setting requires few KG applied on pedals and some crank rotation before motor engagement. How is innotrace controller behave?

With reprogramming cable I was able to set up Ultra to somewhat Bosch like feeling of natural pedalling, but stop-start still not as smooth.

 

[FlyingFinn]

@FlyingFinn
How do you find start from stand-still? OEM setting requires few KG applied on pedals and some crank rotation before motor engagement. How is innotrace controller behave?

With reprogramming cable I was able to set up Ultra to somewhat Bosch like feeling of natural pedalling, but stop-start still not as smooth.

For the first 2 seconds it’s like you pedal with your own force 90% and motor gives just 10%. It’s very smooth but at the same time you get slight vibration in cranks. After 2 seconds the motor ramps up more or less regarding your power setting. Even that ramp-up is smooth.

When you stop pedaling the motor stops immediately. It doesn’t continue to push you for even 1 second. It’s immediate.

 

[barbarossa]

finally I could finish my 14S5P Dorado Max battery with Sony VTC6 cells for my AM1000.
and it looks good :lol:
around 3.4 volts voltage drop at almost 70 amperes - that's not bad.
based on my screenshots you can see how it works. it takes what is necessary to achieve 3500 watts. that also means that you don't feel the charge state of your battery - the power feels equal having 58 volts or 53 volts. it only takes more amps (65.89 ampere => 68.22 ampere) to convert in rpms during discharge process. of course other (FOC) controllers do it the same way…(but not the original Bafang controller with static ampere setting). that was the reason why I ordered the Innotrace controller with 80A max battery setting - and yep, it works like I hoped it should work...
but that also means that you will need a 60A BMS that also takes more than 70A for a while or better a 70-80A BMS ( a slightly modified Speedict Neptune 15 BMS with 2x 14AWG GND wires instead of one will also do the job - and I desoldered the red + 14AWG wire of Neptune 15 which is only needed not to connect it with false polarity. so I also prevent possible short circuits with that red + wire only connecting the BMS with GND wires. normally FET temp of Neptune is lower or equal battery pack but with this higher current levels it is vice versa but uncritical)

 

[soggy]

Hi all,

I have a Watt Wagon 2300W replacing my Ludicrous ULtra in a Luna Apollo. I updated to uses SRAM AXS wireless with my 44T 10-50 and AXS wireless dropper as well.

The AXS shifting along with the smoothness of the Watt Wagon Archon X1 motor is awesome. Since the motor does not “run on” at all the upshifts can happen quicker and the downshifts for a sudden stop can be completed more easily. I can use all 12 gears with ease now!