Banding together to raise bicyle-assisted speed limit.

[Evoforce]

The Federal government has put a 20 mph speed limit on us. How are we going to fix that? City's want their road taxes and insurance companies want their fees. Courts and attorney want their cut. Officers make an easy bust with all the conflicting rules and confiscate your bike for 30 days. Don't know about the rest of you, but I use mine for actual transport. It is safer for me to have less traffic pass and being able to go the posted (in town) speed limits. To top it off, when you do go over 20, they want to slap you with moped classification and $2400 or more in fines. Plus they only allow mopeds to go 25 mph. You can't ride in bike lane over 20 mph unless you have a bike without assist. And with a moped, you can't ride bike lanes either. A pedal bike can go posted speed limit if you can (or want) to pedal that hard. I live in a big metro area, and every adjacent city has heaped on it's own version of qurky rules. A couple of city's make it impossible to ride a bicycle assisted transport unless you have the assist not running. Personally, I am fighting health issues and cannot pedal for very long at sustained speed. I should be able to go as fast as the (purist) that has the extremely lightweight bike. Just because I'm handicapped should not limit my form of transportation in this area. We all need to stick together no matter what form of bicycle we can ride. So called (regular bikes) can go posted speed limits, we should be able to also. Do we all just continue to take our chances and hope to not get bent over. These entities out there are after our hard earned cash and pick us off one by one. It's so hard to find time, in our busy lives, to fight for our freedom even at this level. What are we going to do?

 

[dogman dan]

The new AZ law for motorized bikes doesn't apply to electric bikes?

I haven't researched it, but have heard something about a new law affecting the gasoline powered bikes at the death race. Maybe one of the motored bikes forums will have info. I thought you could go whatever the speed limit is now.

The fed laws only apply to selling something you call a bike. The local state, county, and municipal laws apply to operating them. In the past AZ was pretty tough, especially in Phoenix. Nothing new there, I never speed in AZ when traveling there. You guys have real cops there, just like California.

In NM, I'm a moped, limited to 25 mph. No such thing as an ebike. So I need a drivers licence to ride an Ebike. But nobody cares , so its not a problem for those without a licence. I've had a cop or two give me a look, but that's all.

 

[hydro-one]

if you dont like the laws, or they are unjust, do eveything you can to BREAK THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

and TELL THEM !!!

Its just oil money that gets these laws passed, to try and thwart our efforts!!! DIE BIG OIL

 

[V_Mark]

Personally, I think being able to classify electric bikes as regular bicycles is something that I wouldn't want to put in jeopardy. Sure it sucks that we have speed laws and power regulations, but its seems that the more legal attention our bikes get, the more likely it will be that someone will come up with a new legal classification of ebikes and bring about a whole new set of problems (insurance, permits/licenses, not permitted in bike-lanes, etc...)

I'm all for raising the speed limit to something a little more reasonable, c'mon 18-20mph?? geez. but not at the cost of using the bike lane or more regulation.

 

[geetarboy]

Personally, I think being able to classify electric bikes as regular bicycles is something that I wouldn't want to put in jeopardy. Sure it sucks that we have speed laws and power regulations, but its seems that the more legal attention our bikes get, the more likely it will be that someone will come up with a new legal classification of ebikes and bring about a whole new set of problems (insurance, permits/licenses, not permitted in bike-lanes, etc...)

I'm all for raising the speed limit to something a little more reasonable, c'mon 18-20mph?? geez. but not at the cost of using the bike lane or more regulation.

It's already happened in China, where there's 120 million ebikes on the road. I see ebikes getting reclassified here in the US, right now where kind of in a "grey area" and many of us, myself included, are pushing the boundaries. It's gonna change, "let's enjoy it while we can"

 

[Russell]

The 20 mph limit for electric assisted bikes is reasonable and I'm fine with it. The problem however isn’t that the 20 mph limit is too low, it’s that roads are not designed to accommodate both regular vehicular traffic and bicycles. Finding a safe route to ride a bike, especially if you want to get somewhere rather than ride recreationally, is a real challenge. The problem is compounded by the fact that speed limits are almost universally ignored by motorists with many zipping along at 10 or 15 mph over the posted limits. Frankly if you want to ride with traffic get a motorcycle and even then if you want to be safer doing it get a Harley so everyone within a quarter mile can hear you coming

-R

 

[Drunkskunk]

I fully Support Laws limiting Ebikes to 20mph.

I'll never Obey them, but thats not the point.

IMHO, the 20mph limit is keeping Flybynight Inc from selling 50mph bikes to morons, rednecks, and the average american idiot who will go riding them threw crowded parks, streets, and walking paths while drunk because they have the legal right to do it.

Lets face it, Half the people in America are below average inteligance.

Those smart enough to use an Ebike responsably are also smart enough to not get caught breaking the law while riding at any speed they want to. And keeping the morons from bringing bad press to ebikes is good for everyone.

 

[mrzed]

I also support the 20mph limit. It is the same here in Canada, and for the most part, I think it makes sense.

I agree, there are plenty of cyclists who can go faster than this with pedals alone. But they are in the minority, and tend to be the more experienced cyclists. 20mph is plenty fast on bike trails. My 9c kit tops out around 45kph these days, but I ride in the 25-35kph range on the trails, as there are lots of walkers, dogs, kids and more. It also reduces the chance of someone getting upset and demanding that ebikes be banned from the trails. This last point is my key reason to support the limit, as I want to make sure that ebikes continue to be treated as bikes.

I'd be a little more concerned if I was Australian or European. Watt limits really affect usefulness.

 

[REdiculous]

I think a 20mph limit is fine for kids but it's not fair for adults. For adults I think 35mph is the lowest limit I could support..45mph would be better but that might allow ebikes on the freeway (good & bad). later

 

[John in CR]

If you're on a road, not a special lane or path, then the speed limit should be the posted speed limit and the special lanes and paths should have their own lower limit. If the low power low speed bike guys are able maintain their no registration/license status, the more power to them. For the higher power bikes, regulation is inevitable and the trick will be to help craft regs that make sense with a process that's simple. Someone mentioned insurance, but how could liability coverage for an ebike be much at all? It's the rider at risk, not those around them.

 

[drewdiller]

Count me out. I'm fine with the 20 mph non-pedal cap. I don't want my toy and utility vehicle to get outlawed, and I strive for that by pissing off as few narrow minded people as possible.

 

[drewdiller]

If you're on a road, not a special lane or path, then the speed limit should be the posted speed limit and the special lanes and paths should have their own lower limit.

I agree with that, save for what happens when a souped up e-bike transitions onto a bike/ped path? "Officer, this switch is a governor that I turn on for low speed areas, as I'm a responsible rider. It was switched to the low speed setting, honest."

 

[drewdiller]

I agree, there are plenty of cyclists who can go faster than this with pedals alone. But they are in the minority, and tend to be the more experienced cyclists. 20mph is plenty fast on bike trails.

Yup, and from the perspective of when I used to have legs like this (I was in CC in high school), I'd purposefully avoid ped / dog walk / cycling paths, or focus on bad weather days, just so I could satisfy my desire for uninterrupted speed. I've observed that fast guys with huge quad muscles look positively bored in those same areas.

 

[el_walto]

I think the 20mph limit is fine. It's the 500W limit that causes issues for me. It is hard to get around this hilly town on 500W, 1000W even seems a little low.

If you want to go faster than 20mph you should be able to register your bike and put a plate on it, and stay off bike paths.

 

[dumbass]

I think the 20mph limit is fine. It's the 500W limit that causes issues for me. It is hard to get around this hilly town on 500W, 1000W even seems a little low.

If you want to go faster than 20mph you should be able to register your bike and put a plate on it, and stay off bike paths.

I think most states are actually 750w now...And that's "rated" wates not actual.

 

[REdiculous]

I think most states are actually 750w now...And that's "rated" wates not actual.

Best to check... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws ...

Oregon Law (ORS 801.258) defines an electric assisted bicycle as an electric motor-driven vehicle equipped with operable pedals, a seat or saddle for the rider, no more than three wheels in contact during travel. In addition, the vehicle must be equipped with an electric motor that is capable of applying a power output of no greater than 1,000 watts, and that is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 20 miles per hour on level ground.

At least for me, it sounds like it is "actual". Maybe the last part is worse tho...the motor must be incapable of propelling the vehicle past 20mph...

I should probably go read the actual law 'cause that second part sounds really bad. later

 

[veloman]

20mph is fine.... on properly designed roads that encourage multiple forms of transportation.

The problem is, on most roads, 20mph puts you at serious risk, especially here in TX. That is the real problem.


When I'm on quiet neighborhood streets and well design roads with a wide bike lane or shoulder and a speed limit of 30mph, I feel as if 20mph is fine.


The real tragedy is that our society has created a transportation situation where anything efficient is unsafe. Think about that. Then listen to the news about wars and our environment going to crap due to the oil based transportation.

If most vehicles on the road weren't 4,000lbs, you could ride a streamlined recumbent at 30mph and only draw 200watts. Or go 50 and draw 500watts. Imagine that.

Yes, there will always be large commercial vehicles on the road, but the requirements for these drivers can much stricter and typically these drivers are much more aware of road users than your typical citizen wielding their SUV while distracted by phone, kids, self absorbed attitude.

My gf lives 16 miles away. It's an easy drive on the highway in my car. If I take my bike, it's 16-22 miles of steep hills, many stops, and many high speed roads with no shoulder. I would love to take my ebike to her place, but at anything under 35mph I feel at risk. Too bad I can't build a electric streamliner and take the highway at 70mph.... It could be 4 wheels for stability and still require less than 1000watt for 15 minutes.


What do we need in every city?

BIKE HIGHWAYS, with a speed limit of 25mph, and allow electric bikes. No cars, no exhaust, few stops, low grades, good pavement, direct routes. Think of a "plus" sign design over each city. Then you'd be getting thousands of normal people riding ebikes instead of driving. And many more cycling. Safety is the #1 reason most people don't bike to commute.

 

[swbluto]

If most vehicles on the road weren't 4,000lbs, you could ride a streamlined recumbent at 30mph and only draw 200watts. Or go 50 and draw 500watts. Imagine that.

That makes me dream. If only it became impractical to drive around lumbering heavy vehicles...

(The best bet is financial impracticality through gas prices. But, even then, I have a feeling people will just shift en masse to more aerodynamic and lower powered, but not entirely lightweight, cars.)

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

This is a tough call for me because I am in a similar boat to the OP. I don't always have the physical stamina to ride at all, much less pedal hard and make good time. On top of that, I live in an area where most places I go are separated by a large hill.

I agree that it would be bad if we (who have this designation in our states) lost the "E-Bike is just a Bike" as far as regulation is concerned.

Politicians are more often reactionary than proactive, and if you come to their attention, it's more likely the reaction is going to be based on what ever the public's perception is about E-Bikes. If we are seen as hot-dogs and dare-devils zipping past people on walk paths & bike trails, we aren't going to do well when the axe falls.

I agree with the ability to be responsible and go slow on such paths, while keeping the high speed stuff more to the less crowded places. (I still LOVE passing the lycras, but I usually do it just a hair faster than them, at least at first so they don't realize they don't have a chance of keeping up! :lol: )

I was really surprised that someone here in town who has a "green" business had such a negative view of some E-Bikes/Riders. The strangest part is this same person does deliveries with a cargo bike, and mentioned wanting to get a "stoke monkey" pedal assist kit. I guess it might be my fault since when most people ask me about my bike, they usually want to know how fast it goes, and I like to tell them my top speed! (29MPH pedaling like mad, gonna have to change that to ... ohhh I dunno, about 19-20MPH ... :wink: ) I'm going to go on some community rides locally and between myself and my Dad I think we can change at least a few people's perceptions.

I'm really not concerned so much about total speed restrictions, as long as they are properly defined. The operative words are "with out pedaling" therefore, even when I'm pretty worn-out, as long as I put it in a nice low easy gear and spin the cranks, Jonny Law ain't got nothing to say about me going by at 30MPH (with-in reason, NOT on the bike path unless your local LE officers aren't worried about it like here in Oregon City :wink: ).

What does concern me most is that we might get total Watts to the Wheel restrictions. It's nothing new, there are motorcycles with "race track only" exhausts, and hot chipped cars going faster than OEM, but unless they are attracting attention being stupid, no one knows or cares.

I would say however it would be wise for use as E-Bikers to band together to try and give a good positive face to our sport in the form of clubs and attend local city council meetings so that we aren't miss-labeled by the last crazy You-Tube video of an E-Bike drag-racing cars(although I LOVE vids like that!! )

I do agree with the spirit of the OP, that we need to make sure we get ahead of this thing and get some positive PR for our sport (heck, look what it did for the Hell's Angles! LOL!! 8) ) and not let some pissy lycra or nervous mother give us a bad name. :wink:

Just my $.02

 

[dogman dan]

I always tell people my bike goes 20 mph max, has 750 watts etc.... when it's actually 1200 watts and goes 27 mph.

But for the daily commute, I have another 6x10 motor coming that will only go 20 mph at 48v because much of my route is on a bike and walking path. Lucky me, I have about 1/2 mile of my 14.5 mile commute that is not a safe street with good bike lane or slow speed limit. My motivation is not legal so much as to have a motor that climbs a hill nice and cool, has better throttle response at slow speeds, and gets better range. On a long tour, the 6x10 will be ideal for riding 15 mph all day.

Again, in NM I am a moped, no doubt about it, and have a 25 mph speed limit and need a licence, but no plate or insurance.

I think 25 mph is a good speed limit for ebikes. Allows most motors to run 36v 20 amps without going over 25 mph. At 48v many won't be too far above that limit. More than that is a motorcycle and should be treated by the law as such. I'm building a race bike, but it will seldom be ridden on the street. It will get snuck out sunday morning maybe, but not ridden all over town at 40 mph. But like Drunkskunk says, it doesn't matter if your bike is capable of 40 mph as long as you aren't an idiot while riding it. Just behave on the bike path, and let er rip when alone on the street. Cars will never think a bike is going 40 mph so for sure one will get you if you ride that way everywhere. When they pull into your path you will go flying. Done it several times myself when mopeds were rare in the 70's.

I wouldn't be into ebikes if I had bad roads to ride on. I'd just buy a motorcycle if I NEED a motorcycle.

 

[Evoforce]

For all of you that are reading this post, It might also be of interest to link to similar posts, by typing (ticketed) in the search box, at the right top of the page. Also type in ( electric bike ticketed )in your favorite browser. CHEERS!!!! Good lively discussion. All of us ride for different reasons and abilities, and should make it as relaxed and unrestricted as possible, to include all. Even tho we may personally like one type of bike over another, or personally feel safer, one way or the other, or one speed or another, or bike paths versus bike lanes, etc.. We should all put ourselves in each others saddles and try to be fair about our differences and needs. We need to help steer our city politics to doing the best for us as a group. We do not want the uneducated controlling our rights and needs. Our own group of riders cover a broad spectrum, and we need to also sort out our own emotions from statistics and facts. For me, reasonable and prudent on the street, or bike lane, (35-40 mph). Pedestrian, bike paths, sidewalks, depending on (study) and post the limits. Personally I would like reasonable noise restrictions (extreme muffler, electric or other?) for off city street riding at (parks, paths, multi-use, etc). We need to try and figure this all (in/out), and handle those entities that are making laws and planning our world. We cannot be the silent and just fly under the radar, We have to talk and teach, and direct those who have limited to no experience in order to shape things for the better! EDUCATE!! Remove fear of the unknown for these policy makers!!! Sharing the roads, streets, parks, paths, etc... CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED. LET US BE THEIR GUIDES... In closing, we can all instantly recall the many bad automobile drivers we have seen out there, The policy makers are thinking of those bike riders, that they feel, have no consideration for others. P.S. My other bike is a Harley. Loud pipes in the city save lives. Bet some dislike me for it. When I lived in the country I liked a quiet motorcycle. See how devisive this all can be? All thing said, I really, really, really... enjoy riding my e-bikes

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'm with you Evo, I used to ride Motorcycles a lot, and I agree loud pipes do keep you safe, but now that I'm not ridding and some loud bike goes blasting past my window I get irritated lol!

I'm glad you posted this, and I hope we are able to get the word out and keep our sport from being over-regulated. I mean if they can get the Segway to be used all over the place, then we can keep E-Bikes in the same category. 8)

 

[veloman]

I am under the impression that riding at 30-35mph (on a 60mph limit highway which allows bikes - 15 ft shoulder) would be fine as long as I'm pedaling? Is that the consensus?

My motor is clearly visable, hanging off the side of my rear wheel, but I will be in my road biking spandex, on my TT-ebike.

I already hit 30-55mph on this road with just myself pedaling (downhills). I actually had a cop pass me while I was at 55mph down the hill (loop 360 north into the Iron Bridge - Austin). Never a problem. On this road, the faster a cyclist goes, the safer they are, with no exceptions.

 

[imrealymad]

Well the way I see it the US government would probably raise the limit, but then you would have to have a motorcycle license, and insurance. They gave us a gift letting us operate a motorized vehicle without the normally associated high costs. I myself am happy they even gave us what we got. But go ahead and push them and see where it gets you. You all know how well they deal with being pushed around. Pretty soon any motor will just make it a motorcycle. Now if you live in a town or city that is truely into the green thing trying to do something at a local level may work, but the fed is not green they are big money and we are not helping big money by riding e-bikes. Any way thats my take on things.

 

[veloman]

I tend to agree with that IRM. 20mph is okay because it's still a decent speed for getting around, and it's still efficient. If you start going near 30 or above, you're really throwing away wattage.

I think the better thing to do would be to push for more safe biking roads. That's what's going on here in Austin, with organizations such as LOBV and the Bicycle Advisory Council. I've worked with city staff on one boulevard project. There are improvements being made, but there is a lot more that can be done.

The real problem, is not the 20mph limit, IMO. It's the unsafe high speed auto traffic roads that discourage cycling. Hopefully police would not hassle a ebiker going 30mph on a road that is unsafe to go lower speeds.