BaseRunner motor settings - Autotune vs default?

[ChanW]

Hi ES people,

I've set up my new Baserunner (upgraded from the Grinfineon 35A controller).
I have a few questions, and one slight rough spot.

My system:
Grin All-Axle (Fast wind) on a 20" wheel (recumbent)
Baserunner V4 (70A max phase current)
52V 40A 14.5Ah battery
Cycle Analyst V3
24Pole PAS

The rough spot is that when the bike is at a standstill, or maybe rolling backwards a hair, hitting the throttle will make the motor jerk (sometimes just once hard, sometimes repeatedly jerking more softly). I don't recall this behavior at all with the Grinfineon.

If it's a hard jerk, it feels like it then cuts out momentarily too. In the Phaserunner Suite Dashboard this hard jerk will pop up a momentary Fault that says something along the lines of "Hall Error" (it disappears a bit too fast to read)

This behavior doesn't happen if I'm moving forward at all before hitting the throttle.

I've set the system up with the Grin-recommended settings for both the Phaserunner Suite, and the Cycle Analyst adjustments (throttle ramp-up etc), and I've used the Grin defaults for the All-Axle in the Phaserunner Suite.

In an attempt to find a solution, I've now run the Autotune routine in the Suite, and it gave me some different motor settings than those provided by the Grin 'All-Axle default settings' download.

However, the Autotune didn't fix the jerk-at-standstill problem.

I also played with the Ramp-up multiplier for throttle output in Cycle Analyst, with no joy.

The problem seems to be a lack of power to start from a standstill.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I've attached the before and after Autotune screenshots below.
The 11.71 rpm/V was the default downloaded from Grin
The 11.93 rpm/V was after Autotune
(Is going with the Autotune recommendations better than the defaults from Grin?)

Thanks for any help.

-- ChanW

 

[ChanW]

I'm putting a 'hold' on this question....

I just found that I haven't tuned the Cycle Analyst settings like I thought I had (must have forgotten to press "Save").

There are some changes needed to feedback gain settings when moving from the Grinfinion to the Phase/Baserunner.

I'll see if I can work the required wizardry to get these settings to correct the 'hesitation' I'm experiencing.

 

[greggerz]

Did you figure this out? (I'm not going to be much help, just curious)

Side question - under motor limits, you input 2000W and 70A.... from where do you derive the 70A number?

 

[ChanW]

Hi @greggerz,

Sorry, I missed your message.

Not sure if I figured it out yet! The weather went south so I haven't fine-tuned it, so to speak. I'll post here when it's cleaned up.

As far as the 70A setting, it's the limit on the V4 Baserunner (see below, from Grin's site: https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/baserunner.html ):

 

[ChanW]

To resurrect this thread a bit, and 'tune' it (so to speak)....

(no, I haven't yet resolved it...)

The symptoms I described in my original post are the same.

One thing I've found is that this 'rough spot' happens only when pushing the throttle 'gently', while trying to very slowly start rolling.

The 'chugging' (it could be called 'hesitation', or even 'misfiring' in my old ’52 pickup) does not happen if I push the throttle forward hard, ie: if I 'floor it' (excuse all the ICE references - they're just what comes to mind this morning!),

However, accelerating 'hard' still feels just a wee bit jerky,

I might have to contact Grin, get some professional Baserunner tuning advice.

 

[E-HP]

To resurrect this thread a bit, and 'tune' it (so to speak)....

(no, I haven't yet resolved it...)

The symptoms I described in my original post are the same.

One thing I've found is that this 'rough spot' happens only when pushing the throttle 'gently', while trying to very slowly start rolling.

The 'chugging' (it could be called 'hesitation', or even 'misfiring' in my old ’52 pickup) does not happen if I push the throttle forward hard, ie: if I 'floor it' (excuse all the ICE references - they're just what comes to mind this morning!),

However, accelerating 'hard' still feels just a wee bit jerky,

I might have to contact Grin, get some professional Baserunner tuning advice.

I'd try setting the CA to Bypass throttle mode, to take it out of the mix as a trouble shooting step.

 

[Polskicowboy]

Did you ever figure this out? I am using the same controller V4 Baserunner L10, CAv3, G62 Bafang rear hub (I laced into wheel) on my RadRunner. And a 1st generation Grin L1019 to Z916 motor adapter cable.

Both G62 motor & original Rad motor have same issue.
Rolling backwards = no power or wheel spin (while sitting)
Standstill = super jerky and shaking start (while sitting).
Rolling forward = super smooth and fun (while sitting).
Lift bike off ground and accelerates fine at no load.

I just now keep in low gear and use 24pole (Grin tech) PAS to start.

Tested on wife's 35amp boltonebikes.com controller = no issue. Bike had power like it should.

Sent parts back to Grin (controller, adapter cable, Rad Original Motor) for testing and they said it tested ok and with a leather glove they were able to get 700w of force on it. Not sure a hand with leather glove simulates a 200 pound (90+kg) of weight on the seat.

I tried bypass throttle on Cycle Analyst and controller. Tried just about any setting I can find. Autotunes etc. A custom ebike builder in Vancouver said that there might be a commutation issue with Cycle Analyst and this is where their support has left it as. I have had the issue for over a year and recently saw grin's RadRunner youtube video so I am picking it back up.

Hope you found a fix!

Thanks

 

[lnanek]

My Baserunner controller has always had the same problem as well. Can only start if already rolling forward slightly. There's an older thread on this that says it is related to the "hall sensor start and sensorless fallback" setting and the "fault tolerant hall (fallback to sensorless) setting. Haven't bothered trying to toggle them, though.

 

[Jordan]

I have 2 baserunners with the same symptoms. Is there a forum post where someone resolved this?

 

[Polskicowboy]

Thanks for chiming in guys. Been up a bit too late in my garage (again) and improved the issue by boosting the power as much as possible. I run two 48v batteries in parallel so I can give it extra amperage. Changed it from 20amp constant to 39amp. Then I increased peak phase current from 50 to 70amp (the max). Raised wattage on Cycle Analyst too 37amp & 1750 watts.


So I am thinking....Maybe the Baserunner controller does not have enough Phase Current? It is limited to 70 amps vs the Frankenrunner used in Grin's youtube Radrunner video sends more peak amps. Maybe this is what gives the bike the "push" it wants to get going? With the latest configuration it sometime takes of smooth if I list of the seat (press feet on the ground). And much more consistent taking off with no weight on the seat.

*I did test with sensorless and the other features in that section on the controller. Not sure how to set that up for Bafang G62 motor. I was just trying things. I did that test a week or so ago before my first post. If anyone has a link that might help or advice greatly appreciate it!

I use my bike a lot to go to beach, get lunch etc, did some creative customizing to it and want to get the takeoff & acceleration working properly and not misfiring like Chan W's 52 pickup.

 

[lnanek]

> I did test with sensorless

It's the opposite issue, actually. The other thread said the timeout for it to switch from hall to sensorless is too short and triggers erroneously.

 

[Polskicowboy]

> I did test with sensorless

It's the opposite issue, actually. The other thread said the timeout for it to switch from hall to sensorless is too short and triggers erroneously.

OK, sounds like the switch over is the issue. Do you have a link or name for that thread? Sounds like you have seen some info that might help out.

Update: Been sharing software screenshots with Grin support but I think the guy forgot to send a shot of his advanced setting for sensorless (no clue what value ranges to set them, autotuning obviously not helping me). They have Bafang G62 user connect to the software there and he said that going sensorless might fix for me.

Been guessing at the sensorless settings and saved the best so far (but far from good).

With sensorless option set, I get power while rolling backwards, which is some good news. But a fair amount of resistance on the wheel and bike stutters, jumps, hiccups, hesitates etc.

 

[Polskicowboy]

Update. I also posted this to another thread. I raised the Max Phase Regen Current in the Phaserunner suite. It gave me some power while rolling backwards and minimized the stuttering jerky behavior. So the best I can do is set that regen phase current to 70amps (my geared Bafang hub will not do regen anyway) and that is the best setting thus far.