webfootguy
100 W
mwkeefer said:
I'm thinking of order some BM6 and CellMon8 to evaluate.
--phil
Best damn 6S lithium monitor on the planet for $15
- Thread starter methods
- Start date
I'm thinking of order some BM6 and CellMon8 to evaluate.
--phil
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I have four bm6 here and they are dead on. Four more coming just to test accuracy of another batch. They seemed good to me.
mwkeefer
1 MW
If anyone has a pair of the CellLog 2-8S untis, I would be happy to pay postange just to perform non-destructive testing, otherwise if no one has 1-2 I could test with then I will just order a pair of my own for testing.
Like I said on the BM6 - I placed a direct order with the Chargery after roeporting the isues I encounteded and with some luck they were flukes... I will add Chargery (even after I admidted DVM poking around to debug the issues and check voltage readings of the units and offered the same video as proof have offered to send me 3 replacemnts free of charge and they are not only covering S&H but are givning us the chance to debug and try to fix these... atleast identify the issues. I must say, I see why methods like them.
-Mike
Like I said on the BM6 - I placed a direct order with the Chargery after roeporting the isues I encounteded and with some luck they were flukes... I will add Chargery (even after I admidted DVM poking around to debug the issues and check voltage readings of the units and offered the same video as proof have offered to send me 3 replacemnts free of charge and they are not only covering S&H but are givning us the chance to debug and try to fix these... atleast identify the issues. I must say, I see why methods like them.
-Mike
Hyena
10 GW
methods said:
12S (BM12?) Group buy anyone ?
I'll take 5, 95 to go
Doctorbass
100 GW
What about a CellMon24 
I'm in for 10 of them.. 90 still pending :|
Doc
It would be THE TOOL WE ALL NEED and that we all waited for a CellMon24
Doc
I'm in for 10 of them.. 90 still pending :|
Doc
It would be THE TOOL WE ALL NEED and that we all waited for a CellMon24
Doc
methods
1 GW
nice doc....
-methods
-methods
Doctorbass
100 GW
Arlo1 said:Yea were do we get one of them and more info?Doctorbass said:What about a CellMon24
I'm in for 10 of them.. 90 still pending :|
Doc
It would be THE TOOL WE ALL NEED and that we all waited for a CellMon24
Doc
Arlo1 :lol: This cellmon24 doesn't exist.. it's me who played with the Paint software :wink:
But i would be willing enough to contact the cellmon8 manufactur and ask what qty is required to get a new 24cell version of that cellmon.
Seriously, I think that the demand would be more than enough! alot of people are searching for a cheap 72V+ cell monitoring BMS solution!! WITH DISPLAY AND CALIBRATION POSSIBILITY !
Doc
Dammit lol You did a great job making it look pretty flawless. I am just about to order my 24s lipo and I will need a BMS and a good way of chargin it as well so it would have been sweet if this did exsist! I have a picture I should get someone to design who has talent like you. It is for a patent of mine pm me if you are interested.
sharkmobil
10 W
+1
For a 24s monitor
For a 24s monitor
I'd be happy with 2 12s...
methods
1 GW
Just for the record guys - Many are not aware that Chargery had a 1A balancer :?
It was discontinued due to low demand.
When I said that he would make whatever you wanted if you ordered a run of 100 - I was referring to anything in his current product line.
He deals in tens of thousands of units... 100 units is just the absolute minimum he will do.
A custom 24S design is out of the picture - he is a very good listener but he caters to the RC crowd and nobody NOBODY is running 24S.
For every 100 ebikers there is maybe 1 running 24S.... For every one ebiker running 24S there are 1,000 RC guys running 4S - 6S.
Now - that said - here is a quote from an email exchange between myself and Jason:
Jason Wang says:
"BTW, we are developing 2-16S LCD LiPo and LiFe cell voltage monitor, if you are interested in the new monitor (BM16), any suggestions or requirements will be appreciated."
So - you lads will have to make due with 16S for now.
For a monitor only -> I dont see any benefit in a 24S vs 16S vs 12S vs 6S. It is not like a balancer where you need to compare all cells at once.
-methods
It was discontinued due to low demand.
When I said that he would make whatever you wanted if you ordered a run of 100 - I was referring to anything in his current product line.
He deals in tens of thousands of units... 100 units is just the absolute minimum he will do.
A custom 24S design is out of the picture - he is a very good listener but he caters to the RC crowd and nobody NOBODY is running 24S.
For every 100 ebikers there is maybe 1 running 24S.... For every one ebiker running 24S there are 1,000 RC guys running 4S - 6S.
Now - that said - here is a quote from an email exchange between myself and Jason:
Jason Wang says:
"BTW, we are developing 2-16S LCD LiPo and LiFe cell voltage monitor, if you are interested in the new monitor (BM16), any suggestions or requirements will be appreciated."
So - you lads will have to make due with 16S for now.
For a monitor only -> I dont see any benefit in a 24S vs 16S vs 12S vs 6S. It is not like a balancer where you need to compare all cells at once.
-methods
Hyena
10 GW
A 16s monitor would be SWEET for my my 15S lipo pack (and guys with 48v lifepo4 packs) Where do I sign up
There are actually lots of people who are converting motorcycles these days using large prismatic lithium batts, and while not absolutley necessary a monitor that could do 24 cells would be great for people running high(er) voltage systems. I agree the market definitely isn't as big as the RC or the electric bicycle markets but there might be some demand.
mwkeefer
1 MW
Really... you didnt just fake that about the 16S BM16 in a Text Editor? - Seriously though, if there taking requests... how about dropping them a line:
1.) Adjustable high voltage cutout (might need to add a second button, maybe to accomidate all these)
2.) Seperate outputs for HVC and LVC... so basically provide a GND signal when condition exists but on two seperate alarm pins.
3.) Add LED light via jumper and short harness (will help night flyers, eBikers, etc) which triggers when Piezo Buzzer goes off
4.) Add option to mute the alarms, no beeping (my neighbors think I'm a timebomb riding home near empty) or LED flashing... just trigger the alarms.
5.) Add option to change cadence of alarm frequency - or even make a solid tone, too easy to confuse with wildlife background noise on an eBike... in Heli or plane your lucky if it's close enough to hear.
These are just rough Ideas... but they would improve the design of both the BM6 and the "BM16" for both their "MASS" market users and for us eBikers.
If they really want to create an adaptable product, model it after a slave BMS so offer some public i2c style interface for a host to query the various cell voltages... the alarm outputs can be tied to digital inputs on MCU or A2D and used to generate interrupts. That would open the products up to much more use and adaptation (which they could then incorporate into dedicated products)
- The remote plug LED alarm bit is needed by all... On most RC cars, Planes and Heli the battery compartment is not visible while in use. Lipo over discharged can be dangerous and if only discharged to 30-40% SOC the lifespan can be greatly improved so... If an externally mountable LED is available (don't use balance tap extenders, bad idea) it will provide VISUAL indication in addition to the audio... If my heli (or eBike) start flashing a fairly bright light I will notice.
-Mike
PS: Can you put me down for 2 of these BM16, seriously where can I order some sample / test / beta units?
1.) Adjustable high voltage cutout (might need to add a second button, maybe to accomidate all these)
2.) Seperate outputs for HVC and LVC... so basically provide a GND signal when condition exists but on two seperate alarm pins.
3.) Add LED light via jumper and short harness (will help night flyers, eBikers, etc) which triggers when Piezo Buzzer goes off
4.) Add option to mute the alarms, no beeping (my neighbors think I'm a timebomb riding home near empty) or LED flashing... just trigger the alarms.
5.) Add option to change cadence of alarm frequency - or even make a solid tone, too easy to confuse with wildlife background noise on an eBike... in Heli or plane your lucky if it's close enough to hear.
These are just rough Ideas... but they would improve the design of both the BM6 and the "BM16" for both their "MASS" market users and for us eBikers.
If they really want to create an adaptable product, model it after a slave BMS so offer some public i2c style interface for a host to query the various cell voltages... the alarm outputs can be tied to digital inputs on MCU or A2D and used to generate interrupts. That would open the products up to much more use and adaptation (which they could then incorporate into dedicated products)
- The remote plug LED alarm bit is needed by all... On most RC cars, Planes and Heli the battery compartment is not visible while in use. Lipo over discharged can be dangerous and if only discharged to 30-40% SOC the lifespan can be greatly improved so... If an externally mountable LED is available (don't use balance tap extenders, bad idea) it will provide VISUAL indication in addition to the audio... If my heli (or eBike) start flashing a fairly bright light I will notice.
-Mike
PS: Can you put me down for 2 of these BM16, seriously where can I order some sample / test / beta units?
Doctorbass
100 GW
What is good is to be able to SEE EVERY CELLS VOLTAGE AT THE SAME TIME.. not a latch with only one voltage diaplay..
The 24s i imaginated is from the existing 8s and it display every voltage at time.
Pretty nice if you want to diagnose or watch the lowest cell of your battery pack.... with the latching display, you can't se it intil the sequence display the right cell voltage you want to watch... not a real time monitoring...
Doc
The 24s i imaginated is from the existing 8s and it display every voltage at time.
Pretty nice if you want to diagnose or watch the lowest cell of your battery pack.... with the latching display, you can't se it intil the sequence display the right cell voltage you want to watch... not a real time monitoring...
Doc
methods
1 GW
Oh yea?
How about a 16S balancer, 16S Balance Charger, and a 12S 30A adjustable current balance charger?
"in the past year of 2007, we have research and developed many new charger and balance chargers, such as 680B, 1010B, HB6 and so on. till now, CHARGERY have formed 3 series product line, AC Adapter is from 50W to 250W, Balancer is from for 2 cell to for 16 cells. Balance charger is from for 1 cell to for 10 cells. "
Source
70V 20A balance charger:
View attachment Chargery charger list v3.5.pdf
DB1210B - 12S 30A balance charger
Two DB1210B's can balance charge a 24S pack at up to 30A
how you like them apples?
DB16 - 16S 20A balance charger
Who is your daddy?
-methods
How about a 16S balancer, 16S Balance Charger, and a 12S 30A adjustable current balance charger?
"in the past year of 2007, we have research and developed many new charger and balance chargers, such as 680B, 1010B, HB6 and so on. till now, CHARGERY have formed 3 series product line, AC Adapter is from 50W to 250W, Balancer is from for 2 cell to for 16 cells. Balance charger is from for 1 cell to for 10 cells. "
Source
70V 20A balance charger:
View attachment Chargery charger list v3.5.pdf
DB1210B - 12S 30A balance charger
Two DB1210B's can balance charge a 24S pack at up to 30A
how you like them apples?
DB16 - 16S 20A balance charger
Who is your daddy?
-methods
Hyena
10 GW
I agree, a LED indicator should be the absolute minimum addition they make. Usable outputs would be cool, although something that probably wouldnt be useful to the bulk of people who'd buy them. Likewise I dont think there'll be a big market for adjustable tones, although something like the maxpro monitors that give a single beep at a set voltage would be useful as an early warning when a pack is getting low. If you want to mute them Mike, stick a piece of tape over the hole in the piezo
In addition I'd suggest some sort of simple plastic case so these could be neatly mounted on the outside of a battery box. Sure its not really a big deal to use them how they are now, but I'm sure it'd only cost a dollar or 2 to encase them in even the crappiest of cases. Even if it was front bezel type arrangement like panel meters have with the electronics open/visable at the back.
If you were going to have a bigger screen to display all pack voltages (or atleast scroll through 2 pages of each 8 cells to keep the size down) having low or out of balance cells flash would be a cool feature too.
I'm definitely keen for a few regardless of features
In addition I'd suggest some sort of simple plastic case so these could be neatly mounted on the outside of a battery box. Sure its not really a big deal to use them how they are now, but I'm sure it'd only cost a dollar or 2 to encase them in even the crappiest of cases. Even if it was front bezel type arrangement like panel meters have with the electronics open/visable at the back.
If you were going to have a bigger screen to display all pack voltages (or atleast scroll through 2 pages of each 8 cells to keep the size down) having low or out of balance cells flash would be a cool feature too.
I'm definitely keen for a few regardless of features
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Patrick,
A 16S Balancing Charger for Lipo/LiFe would be great. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they make a 16S Charger.
The models preceded with DB (the only units that handle 16S in the pdf) are listed as Balancers, not Chargers):
methods said:
A 16S Balancing Charger for Lipo/LiFe would be great. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they make a 16S Charger.
The models preceded with DB (the only units that handle 16S in the pdf) are listed as Balancers, not Chargers):
GGoodrum
1 MW
methods said:
Slight correction: The 1210B 12s charger is rated for 300W, and "up to 10A", so for 12s that's probably 6A. You need an 18V/30A supply to drive it, though, so for a 24s setup you'd need two supplies and two 1210Bs. Not so cheap, I think, for a 6A charging setup, even if it does do balancing.
The 16s balancer looks interesting, though. Too bad its not 18s, and then it would work for three 6s packs in series. It will also be interesting to see what sort of balance current it can handle. The problem with typical RC balancers is that that they usually have fairly low balance currents (200-300mA...), which is fine for for single-"p" RC setups, but not great for 15-20Ah ebike packs.
-- Gary
methods
1 GW
MitchJi said:
It is more than a balancer - the way the circuit works is that it monitors each channel and if any one cell goes over 4.22V it will open a mosfet that carries the charge current.
What you do is set a power supply to your desired HVC voltage, hook up the balancer, then attach the negative of the supply through the balancer.
This is a guarantee that it is impossible to "blow up" a pack.
Can be used in conjunction with an existing non-balancing charger or power supply.
Similar to how the 24ch BMS works.
Worse case, if your pack is way out of wack it will cut off the charging early but still balance.
So - it is a charger in that sense. There is no power limit really.
But you are correct - I did not look closely, only scanned, and was under the impression that it was a charger.
Gary made a good catch too - 300W is not anywhere near enough power for charging 12S.
I charge my 12S packs at 30, so 30A * 50V = 1500W.
No way would I fool around with 300W
Looks like Gary/Fechter still have a monopoly for the time being
-methods
liveforphysics
100 TW
The 1010b also says 300w limit, yet it will hold 9.5amps at 41v if you keep it's input voltage around 18vdc.
This chargery guy makes some of the coolest battery charging stuff out there, and every product I've ever got from chargery has worked like a champ right out of the box, and is loaded with cool extra features. The voltages also agree with my fluke 189 meter down to about +-1mV, which is damn impressive for stuff in these price ranges. Good products. I'm excited by the trend of seeing chargers become better suited for larger packs.
This chargery guy makes some of the coolest battery charging stuff out there, and every product I've ever got from chargery has worked like a champ right out of the box, and is loaded with cool extra features. The voltages also agree with my fluke 189 meter down to about +-1mV, which is damn impressive for stuff in these price ranges. Good products. I'm excited by the trend of seeing chargers become better suited for larger packs.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Patrick,
From the pdf:
20A (max) charging rate for use with a non-balancing charger or power supply sounds pretty good!
Depending on the price and if you can live with 16S vs 24S it sounds like it could be better than the Gary/Richard BMS. Probably easier to set up and use plus the display, battery gauge etc.
From the pdf:
Does that mean 420w max when all cells are low and then 250w max when its balancing?
methods said:It is more than a balancer - the way the circuit works is that it monitors each channel and if any one cell goes over 4.22V it will open a mosfet that carries the charge current.
What you do is set a power supply to your desired HVC voltage, hook up the balancer, then attach the negative of the supply through the balancer.
This is a guarantee that it is impossible to "blow up" a pack.
Can be used in conjunction with an existing non-balancing charger or power supply.
Similar to how the 24ch BMS works.
Worse case, if your pack is way out of wack it will cut off the charging early but still balance.
So - it is a charger in that sense. There is no power limit really.
Looks like Gary/Fechter still have a monopoly for the time being
-methods
From the pdf:
20A (max) charging rate for use with a non-balancing charger or power supply sounds pretty good!
Depending on the price and if you can live with 16S vs 24S it sounds like it could be better than the Gary/Richard BMS. Probably easier to set up and use plus the display, battery gauge etc.
Of course I'm correctmethods said:
Luke said:
From the pdf:
Does that mean 420w max when all cells are low and then 250w max when its balancing?
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