Best pedal assist sensor kits.

[maxwell92036]

I have been frustrated with the standard pedal assist sensor kits. A lot of the time you can't get them to fit even with a standard square taper BB. Finding ones to work with the new style BB's is even worse.
I have tried this one and it isn't as good as what I need. http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/torque-sensors/pas-12p-chr.html
The main problems are the magnet sensor setup is difficult and finicky and it even operates the motor when you back pedal. I am not interested in this point at BB torque sensors.
Any recommendations on where to look? Thanks in advance.

 

[d8veh]

Which type of BB do you have? If you don't know, show a picture of it without the crank on so that we can see the shaft.

I've never found a pedal sensor that I couldn't fit, though there's often some adjustments that have to be made. Once I know what BB you have, I can tell you what to do. If you have one that works backwards, you need to flip the magnet disc.

Some of the latest pedal sensors are handed so will only fit on one side. They're rare though. I just looked at that Grin one in your link. It's probably a handed one. I notice it has four wires. I'm not sure why they call it "universal" because most controllers have three-wire connectors. I guess it's specially for the CA.

 

[maxwell92036]

Which type of BB do you have? If you don't know, show a picture of it without the crank on so that we can see the shaft.

I've never found a pedal sensor that I couldn't fit, though there's often some adjustments that have to be made. Once I know what BB you have, I can tell you what to do. If you have one that works backwards, you need to flip the magnet disc.

Some of the latest pedal sensors are handed so will only fit on one side. They're rare though. I just looked at that Grin one in your link. It's probably a handed one. I notice it has four wires. I'm not sure why they call it "universal" because most controllers have three-wire connectors. I guess it's specially for the CA.

Mostly square taper bottom bracket but sometimes there is not enough room to squeeze the magnet sensor in without it binding. On one I had to remove the small chainring. Of course I could buy a wider bottom bracket. I don't think a standard PAS is going to work with an outboard bearing BB system.
Regarding the Grin sensor It works but in both directions and I don't use a CA and I don't use one of the 4 leads.
I saw one on e-bay that I may try but it appears to have spacing problems too.

 

[Ypedal]

i've given up on those, they get cut off, disabled and thrown away.

the Bafang BBS style, built-in is not bad... tolerable once you get used to it.

the Thun / Torque sensing are by far the best way to go imo. if you want your ebike to pedal and feel like a bicycle, there is no other option... all other's operate like a damn on/off switch.

 

[TheBeastie]

*Complete edit of my last post*...
I tried to replace my old one with this fancy one but it totally doesn't work, I got 3 of these PAS dual hall sensors and I couldn't make them work on the latest S12S controller, I couldn't make any of them work, I tried pulling the default wiring combo and tried every wiring combo possible and tried flicking the PAS LCD options around, nothing worked.
Do not buy this PAS sensor below unless your super duper sure it will work with your controller.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/705-dual-hall-sensor-12-signals-easy-assembling-pas-ebike-kit.html

I am back to my original disc style old one.

 

[maxwell92036]

i've given up on those, they get cut off, disabled and thrown away.

the Bafang BBS style, built-in is not bad... tolerable once you get used to it.

the Thun / Torque sensing are by far the best way to go imo. if you want your ebike to pedal and feel like a bicycle, there is no other option... all other's operate like a damn on/off switch.

I thought about the BB torque sensing units but I don't think they are compatible with the newer outboard bearing bottom brackets.
Also I don't thing the torque sensing units would work well with my Wattwagons. I like that you can vary the power output to the wheel of the wattwagon with standard pedal assist sensors using the 5 levels of PAS from the display. This helps keep the wattwagon wheel from spinning too much in the dirt. With a torque sensor I might create too much spin when I stomp on the pedals.

I heard from GRIN on their pedal assist sensor I got from them and it works in both directions which is not ideal unless you have a CA and program it in the direction you want.
Still looking for the perfect solution but me thinks there isn't one yet.

 

[motomech]

Post your crank style like D8veh asked. He has fitted more sensors than you can shake a stick at.
What we do when we order, is get every style that BMS Battery or Elife bike offer(there's 4, I think)and adapt one. They are cheap from those vendors.
Combined with the BMS B. sine wave controller w/ 5 level "Torque Imitation"feature makes for very good PAS on the cheap.
It just takes a little time and effort.

 

[Avitt]

I'm convinced that the ultimate Pedal Assist experience comes from a combination of cadence and torque sensors...Neither alone is ideal.

I've documented my solution here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67086

 

[maxwell92036]

Post your crank style like D8veh asked. He has fitted more sensors than you can shake a stick at.
What we do when we order, is get every style that BMS Battery or Elife bike offer(there's 4, I think)and adapt one. They are cheap from those vendors.
Combined with the BMS B. sine wave controller w/ 5 level "Torque Imitation"feature makes for very good PAS on the cheap.
It just takes a little time and effort.

Standard square taper and outboard bearing. I found ones that work but they aren't ideal usually because of spacing or sensing issues.
I ordered a different style from e-bay so I will let you know what I think of it once I get it.

 

[d8veh]

To fit a normal PAS to a BB with outboard bearings is the simplest. You open the hole in the magnet disc to 25mm (doesn't have to be a tight fit because it wil be clamped by the crank.). It's a good idea to chamfer the inner edge to prevent it damaging the seal. You unscrew the sensor from its bracket and re-mount it the other side so that it reaches forward over the bearing. Sometimes the sensor screws are asymmetric, so you have to drill new holes in the bracket. Mount the PAS on the left side, so that you don't have to adjust your front derailleur. If you have a 68mm BB, there's spacers behind the bearing, which you remove to compensate for the extra width of the magnet disc. If you have 73mm BB, it's a bit tight, but you can just get the crank on far enough. Just about all my bikes have BBs with outboard bearings. They all have PAS fitted.

For square taper BBs without the space for the magnet disc, you have to buy a longer BB, which doesn't cost much.

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

 

[maxwell92036]

To fit a normal PAS to a BB with outboard bearings is the simplest. You open the hole in the magnet disc to 25mm (doesn't have to be a tight fit because it wil be clamped by the crank.). It's a good idea to chamfer the inner edge to prevent it damaging the seal. You unscrew the sensor from its bracket and re-mount it the other side so that it reaches forward over the bearing. Sometimes the sensor screws are asymmetric, so you have to drill new holes in the bracket. Mount the PAS on the left side, so that you don't have to adjust your front derailleur. If you have a 68mm BB, there's spacers behind the bearing, which you remove to compensate for the extra width of the magnet disc. If you have 73mm BB, it's a bit tight, but you can just get the crank on far enough. Just about all my bikes have BBs with outboard bearings. They all have PAS fitted.

For square taper BBs without the space for the magnet disc, you have to buy a longer BB, which doesn't cost much.

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

Very good information. Thanks much! Even 73 mm bottom brackets use at least one spacer so it shouldn't be a problem. That is unless you use a bottom bracket mount type front derailleur.

 

[chas58]

What we do when we order, is get every style that BMS Battery or Elife bike offer(there's 4, I think)and adapt one. They are cheap from those vendors.

I bought a controller from elifebike last fall, but I haven't gotten into their web site for months now. I'm thinking they are out of business? That leaves BMSbbattery and greenbikekit...

 

[chas58]

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

Silly question, but my PAS wires are short and there is a long way from my bottom bracket to my controller (near my seat). Do you have to mount the controller near the bottom bracket to use PAS, or am I missing something?

(is a KU63/65 ) a modern controller?)

 

[maxwell92036]

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

Silly question, but my PAS wires are short and there is a long way from my bottom bracket to my controller (near my seat). Do you have to mount the controller near the bottom bracket to use PAS, or am I missing something?

(is a KU63/65 ) a modern controller?)

Either get one with longer wires or splice and solder in wires to make it the right length.

 

[motomech]

What we do when we order, is get every style that BMS Battery or Elife bike offer(there's 4, I think)and adapt one. They are cheap from those vendors.

I bought a controller from elifebike last fall, but I haven't gotten into their web site for months now. I'm thinking they are out of business? That leaves BMSbbattery and greenbikekit...

Elifebike is doing business as usual. I have an order on the way.

 

[tomjasz]

the Thun / Torque sensing are by far the best way to go imo. if you want your ebike to pedal and feel like a bicycle, there is no other option... all other's operate like a damn on/off switch.

Best advice!! My next investment, and from my view the ONLY really working PAS that behaves as one would expect. The BBS0x is better than the inexpensive magnet types. Although the CycleAnalyst with the Grin magnet style PAS is better than any of the type, IME.
If I had my DD to do over it would have been all ebikes.ca. Or perhaps all their components with the Thun, CA, and eBikes.ca controller. Perfect for the new builder. Plug and play is much more rewarding for the n00b.

 

[motomech]

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

Silly question, but my PAS wires are short and there is a long way from my bottom bracket to my controller (near my seat). Do you have to mount the controller near the bottom bracket to use PAS, or am I missing something?

(is a KU63/65 ) a modern controller?)

I don't know about modern, but the early ones w/ 63V caps could be shunt-soldered to 17-18 Amps reliabily and run as high as 14 or 15S(lipo).
That's the kind of performance to size ratio one gets w/ a 6-FET Infineon!

 

[Ypedal]

and fyi.. bmsbattery = elifebike same person/company operating with both names.

 

[d8veh]

I don't believe that's true. Some employees left BMSB and started Greenbike kit, but they're totslly separate now. BMSB also trades under Ecitypower.

 

[d8veh]

IMHO the PAS function from modern controllers with LCDs is excellent. For normal riding, there's no better way to control your bike. Anybody that hasn't tried one, should. I don't think you need a torque sensor. They have drawbacks on DIY bikes. I tried the Thun one with a CA, which is a relatively expensive solution, but I didn't like it, so I very quickly switched back to a normal PAS.

Silly question, but my PAS wires are short and there is a long way from my bottom bracket to my controller (near my seat). Do you have to mount the controller near the bottom bracket to use PAS, or am I missing something?

(is a KU63/65 ) a modern controller?)

Just cut the wire and splice in a longer piece. Some PAS sensors have a long wire already. I guess yours doesn't!

 

[motomech]

I don't believe that's true. Some employees left BMSB and started Greenbike kit, but they're totslly separate now. BMSB also trades under Ecitypower.

They are different.
I just noticed on my last BMS Battery/DHL invoice that BMS B. is shipping(origin) from Hong Kong.
That is probably why their shipping is so fast these days.
With my last order(no batt.s), I got the tracking # the next day and it was at my door here in Mex. four days later.
Still waiting for the my ELB order placed about the same time.
Took a week to get the tracking #(Had to ask)and now it's in the States, so I looks like it will be two weeks total. Still, not bad.

 

[rsilvers]

I want a Thun in part because I want to know how many watts I am pedaling, but I need a 107mm and they don't seem to have one that short.

 

[gacck]

Apologies on waking up this old post. Hello group. New to the site looking for help with a PAS issue on a just installed Dillinger 350 USA version front hub. I saw that d8veh claimed there wasn't a PAS he couldn't find a work around for. I have a Novara Gotham with Gates Carbon Belt Drive system and there is absolutely no room to install the 12 magnet disc between the left crank arm and the bottom bracket. You can barely fit a piece of paper in there. I'm thinking of putting in on the drive side of the GATES FC S300 GXP CRANKSET. Any thoughts?

 

[amberwolf]

If the ring won't fit, is there a place on the belt pulley you can glue the 12 magnets? (pull them off the ring one at a time and glue them on in the same spacing and sequence, then mount the sensor on the frame where it can read them).