• Howdy! we're looking for donations to finish custom knowledgebase software for this forum.
    Please see: Funding drive thread

Best riding tire

Gregte

10 W
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
94
I ride a lot of gravel roads and am using 26x1.95 Specialized Armadillo tires with 35 psi pressure. The low pressure is strictly for a softer ride on my unsuspended bike.

Can anyone here tell me if I would get a significantly softer ride yet with a tire like the Schwalbe Big Apple 26x2.00 or 26x2.1? I cannot fit a 26x2.35 in the rear at least.

Or should I just let my Armadillos down to 31 psi or so and enjoy the ride?

Will I end up being disappointed with regard to flats on the Big Apples, coming from the Armadillo? TIA
 
I have a set of armidillos. Great tire, but what makes them so tough also makes them ride hard. Kevlar doesn't stretch much.

My other bike is running 2.5" Maxxis Hookworms with DH tubes and tire slime. The tread on that wouldn't be good for gravel, but its a big soft tire that almost oozes over small rocks and bumps.

Big soft tires ride like you would expect a big soft tire to ride like.
 
Mine are marked 35 to 80 psi. I just let them down to 30 and it feels nice to me but I still would like nicer if a Big Apple would be significantly different.
 
Just as a general, old rule: the softer you can run a tire (it will be a bit harder to roll if soft),
the less liable it is to stone and glass cuts, and the easier it is on the spokes, hubs, frames, etc.

Some guys have to deal with hell for roadways: thorns, busted bottles, mud, and such.
See Sheldon Brown's site for the skinny all about tires, sized, tread, pressures?

Nothing about it there is "new"; a century ago they knew that a good tire choice was about 1.25" wide and 40PSI.
That is a good compromise for most normal-weight people, between cushy ride and easy rolling resistance.

Hanks and Big Hanks, are, without personal doubt, the most easy-rolling of all tires.
They are just not aero. I do not consider a 3/4 racing tire at 120PSI to be much of a cushion tire;
it almost might as well be made of solid, resilient rubber, like the pre-dunlop tires, pre 1891.
 
Thanks Reid. Well, I ordered a couple 26x2.1 Big Apples and will run them at 30 psi. Right now I am running my Armadillos at 30 psi and that sure beats the H E double L out of Armadillos at 70 psi. I will post back once I get them and report whether I made a good move or wasted my money.
 
I learned a LOT about tires riding a recumbent over the last 10 years.

Rule #1 Narrow tires are not faster than wider tires (don't worry, I'll explain)
Rule #2 Higher pressure tires are generally faster than lower pressure tires, but not always!
Rule #3 Kevlar belted tires are slower than regular belted tires

There was a study performed on 20" tires for recumbents and they used everything from 28mm wide Schwalbe Stelvio and Continental tires at 100+ PSI to a 20x1.75 Tioga Comp Pool freestyle slick tire at 90 PSI. They would roll the recumbent down a hill and see how far it went until it fell over. The farthest roll off won. The tires were run multiple times with pressures from 70 to 130 PSI. The Tioga Comp Pool 20x1.75 won over all the skinny high pressure tires, it beat them at 90 PSI even with the Continentals at 130 PSI. The skinny 20" (406mm) tires were 28mm wide with the comp pool at 44mm wide. I was running a 32mm wide 115 PSI tire on the front of my bent so I bought a Comp Pool to see how it worked. It was faster, stuck through the corners better and gave a better ride at 90 PSI. I was surprised.

Weight has a huge effect on rolling resistance of tires. Run a 1 inch wide tire at 100 PSI with a hundred pounds on it, the contact patch will be round. Run a 3/4 inch wide tire with 100 pounds of pressure with 100 pounds on it and the contact patch becomes oval. That oval is a lot of sidewall flex to hold the weight so rolling resistance jumps way up. This is why those 19mm tires run 130 PSI, they need to hold the weight and not go oval. The Tioga won because it had the best casing being very supple, thin and flexible skinwall. Skinny tires are used for aerodynamics and on track bikes, generally 19mm wide on the front for aero and 23mm on the rear for rolling resistance improvement. The narrow tires are also lighter but for something to ponder, it is not a huge difference when the weight of everything is calculated.

Now take a mountain bike, throw on 50 pounds of batteries, motors etc, the weight of the bike and you have 80 pounds of weight. Throw a 180 pound rider on it, add helmet, clothes, water and parts/tools. Rolling down the road is 270 pounds of weight. If running a X5 hub motor, figure 150 pounds on the back and 120 pounds on the front. The back tire will have to run at least 75 pounds of pressure not to go oval and 60 PSI on the front if running traditional 2" wide tires. The beast I am designing will run 3" wide tires of the 24" flavor so the monster can run 45 PSI without oval for better speed and preventing pinch flats.

The funny part is how something that weighs as much as electric bikes do, no aerodynamics on them why someone would try to run 1.25" or 32mm wide tires on the things. The narrowest I would run with a 26" wheel is a 1.50 wide Schwalbe Marathon as it pumps to 100 PSI and will hold 150 pounds without going oval. My son's recumbent runs those tires and he loves them, says they "drift" well. No flats is what I am concerned with.

One of the conclusions they made why the Tioga won and not at the highest pressure they used (130 PSI) it was best at 100 I think. It had to do with the tire being too hard, the imperfect street surface would hammer the tire that it would'nt flex, but bounce. In real world riding on less than glass smooth surfaces, there was a limit to how high of pressure you could go to decrease rolling resistance. The difference between 90 to 110 PSI was very small but the difference in ride was huge...hard to be high performance with your teeth rattling. The testers preferred to run the Tioga Comp Pool at 70 PSI on the front and 90 PSI on the back as a good compromise but still be high performance.

Alas, Tioga changed the manufacturer of the tire and screwed it up. :O(
 
The issue of "bounce" in bikes with either no suspension or average bicycle grade cheap suspension is major for performance.

I have noticed that even a relatively inexpensive dual purpose motorcycle (with a decent suspension) outperforms a bike in its ability to keep tires in contact with pavement.

Lowering tire pressure sure helps, but the biggest gain comes from a frame / suspension that have low striction, properly tuned progressive springs, properly chosen valving in the dampers.

Anyone have any idea which mid priced mountain bike fit this bill?
 
GTA1 said:
Lowering tire pressure sure helps, but the biggest gain comes from a frame / suspension that have low striction, properly tuned progressive springs, properly chosen valving in the dampers.

Anyone have any idea which mid priced mountain bike fit this bill?
Motobecane and Giant both use low end frames and wheels, but top end componants, and make some cheaper mid range bikes with top end suspension componants.
Specalized, Trek, and Cannondale are a step up from there.
All 5 companies fit in the midrange criteria and have full suspension bikes under $2k

The biggest factor is the use of actual "shocks" in the suspension, instead of of some spring or elastomer device. And then the suspension needs to be tuned to the weight of a rider. a 100 pound girl is not going to need the same suspension as a 350 guy.
 
I received my new Big Apple tires and have test ridden them for a little bit on gravel roads. I cannot detect any difference between them and my Specialized Armadillos, all with 30 psi pressure. My opinion is that the advertising hype and testimonials I have read are overblown.
 
Hi Gregte,

I see that you ordered the 2.1" tires. I wonder if the 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apples are the ones that have the nicer ride?

Ambrose
 
EVnewbie said:
There was a study performed on 20" tires .... They would roll the recumbent down a hill and see how far it went until it fell over. The farthest roll off won.
On the surface, that seems like a very poor test if you're trying to determine rolling resistance. For one thing, without a real load on the tire (a person), there's not going to be enough flex in the wall to determine how much flex resistance it has. It would also skew the results towards the heavier tires, rather than the lowest resistance tires. The heavier the tire, the more gyroscopic effect, and the better the bike will balance itself on it's own before falling over. And without any weight, it would seem that external variables such as wind could play a bigger role than the tires themselves. And without anyone to actively balance the bike, the extra stability of a wider tire could even be a factor. But that's just my humble opinion. :)
 
dscline said:
EVnewbie said:
There was a study performed on 20" tires .... They would roll the recumbent down a hill and see how far it went until it fell over. The farthest roll off won.
On the surface, that seems like a very poor test if you're trying to determine rolling resistance.
That testing reminds me of a joke.

We at the A&M school of science and agraculture have been experimenting with frogs and verbal stimuli.
In our latest experiment, we test the response of frogs in adverse conditions.
Test 1) Normal conditions. Tester shouts "jump" 6 inches behind the frog. Frog jumps 4 feet.
Test 2) Adverse condition 1. 1 leg cut off. Tester shouts "jump" 6 inches behind the frog. Frog jumps 2 feet.
Test 3) Adverse condition 2. 2 legs cut off. Tester shouts "jump" 6 inches behind the frog. Frog jumps 1 foot.
Test 4) Adverse condition 3. 3 legs cut off. Tester shouts "jump" 6 inches behind the frog. Frog jumps 3 inches.
Test 5) Adverse condition 4. All legs cut off. Tester shouts "jump" 6 inches behind the frog. Frog doesn't move.

Conclusion. Frog is deaf.
:twisted:
 
ambroseliao said:
Hi Gregte,

I see that you ordered the 2.1" tires. I wonder if the 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apples are the ones that have the nicer ride?

Ambrose
I suppose the bigger one would be softer especially if you let the air down more. I cannot fit the larger one, at least in the rear. The ones I got are marked 22 to 60 psi on the sidewall. Maybe I will try less pressure. It just seems like 22 is asking for a snake bite!

EDIT: I reduced the pressure from 30 psi to 26 and it is a bit nicer riding. Maybe I will go all the way to 22 psi. It just seems dangerous to run such a low pressure when the whole idea is to make a soft ride on a rough surface. That rough surface is just waiting to pinch the tube!
 
Also, is a 20" tire going to behave the same as a 26" tire? I'd imagine the OD has a big effect on the shape of the contact patch.
 
Sorry, I was not clear on the testing
The tires were mounted on a recumbent with a person on it. They rolled the guy down a hill and took speed readings and measured peak speed, average speed etc. The point of the test was to determine width VS rolling resistance with different pressures. On roads that are not perfectly smooth, having a little give really helps. Aerodynamics really help and the recumbent used was quite aero. I found it interesting that a BMX freestyle tire made for stunt riding in swimming pools won. The Comp Pool is a very light tire with thin, supple sidewalls and slick tread. Loved the tire but it would suffer from belt issues so I changed tires.
Electric bikes weigh a lot and are not very aero so I don't see running very narrow and high pressure tires on them.
 
Gregte said:
ambroseliao said:
Hi Gregte,

I see that you ordered the 2.1" tires. I wonder if the 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apples are the ones that have the nicer ride?

Ambrose
I suppose the bigger one would be softer especially if you let the air down more. I cannot fit the larger one, at least in the rear. The ones I got are marked 22 to 60 psi on the sidewall. Maybe I will try less pressure. It just seems like 22 is asking for a snake bite!

I've ordered a pair of the Schwalbe Big Apple in the 26 x 2.35" sizeso I will let you know how they work. Don't forget that the Schwalbe Big Apples have a Kevlar belt. I'm also going to use thorn resistant tubes with these.

Ambrose
 
Since my initial ride I have reduced the air pressure to 26 psi and have ridden more. The 26 x 2.1 Big Apples at this pressure do provide a nicer ride than what I had with the Armadillos at 30 psi for sure. They do not seem to flatten but I am quite light weight.
 
Back
Top