Best value batteries?

[electr0n]

I've been using hobbyking lipo batteries for the past 8+ years. I've been satisfied with their performance for the most part. My last purchase was 4x Multistar 6s 10 amp hours. That's 888 watt hours for around $320 CAD shipped, including some extra connectors and wires. That's around 32 cents CAD per watt hour. I see hobbyking no longer has the Multistar packs but instead have Turnigy but they are a lot more expensive now. To duplicate my last purchase 4x Turnigy 6s 10 amp hours is now going to cost $536 CAD. That's 60 cents CAD per watt hour. Not as attractive.Do these still go on sale?

Are their any 18650 packs that are comparable in price / performance? Every time I've looked the 18650 packs are considerably more expensive and their continuous amp rates are typically 40 amps or less. I've pulled 50 to 80+ amps from my cheap lipo batteries many times. I suppose the bms on the more expensive 18650 packs would cut out if I tried to pull big amps from it.

What is the best price I can get for 18650 cells if I were to make a pack myself. Which vendors? Are their any solderless DIY systems to make 18650 pack building easier? Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Balmorhea]

You might be happier with salvaged automotive cells than 18650s, if you can fit them on your bike. They’re easier to build into packs, and they support large discharge currents. Generally they have much lower cost per energy than RC lipo, longer cycle life, and better quality control, but are bigger and heavier for any given capacity.

 

[markz]

In searching the forum to see if the Satiator measures IR, I came across this little post here from justin_le

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=1116555&hilit=satiator+internal+resistance#p1130932

but having been witness to so many unpleasant LiPo incidents, I've made a conscious decision to avoid any kind of promotion or even mention of the use of Turnigy of other hobby grade LiPo as an option for ebikes. If I model and add these cells to the list, then in some sense that is legitimizing the use of the Satiator to bulk charge non-bms protected LiPo packs for people who really shouldn't be doing that. That's not to pass judgement on people here who know what they are doing and the risks involved, but I really want to keep that list of people small and contained!

If there were some legitimate ebike related lithium polymer cell brands that are widely used and respected in the industry then I would model those, but as far as I can tell the entire ebike world, from the very high end to the very generic, has moved to 18650's.

edit - Oh sorry, I just added justin_le

 

[999zip999]

Look up battery hookup in Pennsylvania.

 

[amberwolf]

You might be happier with salvaged automotive cells than 18650s, if you can fit them on your bike. They’re easier to build into packs, and they support large discharge currents. Generally they have much lower cost per energy than RC lipo, longer cycle life, and better quality control, but are bigger and heavier for any given capacity.

Ditto on this.

At least two of the EV cells are very easy to use, bolt together, the EIG cells like Jimbob01 has in teh for sale section, and used Nissan Leaf modules, of which there are a few varieties, and a number of threads around the forum about them if you are interested.

 

[thepronghorn]

Take a look at the NESE solderless system.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88051
https://18650.lt/

It will be more expensive up front, but when the cells wear out, you can just open the modules up and replace them. For example, a 24S, 10Ah pack made of 4P Samsung 25Rs would cost:
9 euros per 4P NESE module * 24 = 216 euros = $340 CAD
1.49 euros per NESE series bus bar * 23 = 34 euros = $54 CAD
$3.15 US per cell * 96 cells = $302 USD = $406 CAD
$800 CAD plus shipping

The 25Rs can do 20A per cell, so that would give you the 80A discharge you mentioned. Not sure how much shipping will be, but NESE is based in Lithuania. You can print the 3d printed parts yourself or source them locally from a site like 3dhubs.com. You can also research different cells and make your own decision about tradeoffs between cost, longevity, capacity, discharge capability, etc. I didn't add a BMS since I assumed you could do the same charging setup you were using with your lipos, but there are 80A+ li-ion BMS's available from a variety of suppliers.

As far as cell vendors, I don't have any personal experience, but there are some reviews on this forum in the reviews section. I think user John1deere sells 18650 cells in Canada. There are cheaper options in the US, but idk about shipping to Canada.

 

[999zip999]

There are battery markers and supplies in Canada.
Maybe others can chime in about Can a Dee say.

 

[agniusm]

I suppose the bms on the more expensive 18650 packs would cut out if I tried to pull big amps from it.

Not necessarily. It depends how you wire things. I stopped buying expensive big bms for high amps. Just does not make sense.
Just get bms that is rated for your charge current and wire in a relay with positive to ignition through relay switch and positive and BMS P- on the coil. This way you can draw full potential of your battery and if one cell group gets below set limit, it will cut off ignition. You then set (hardware or software) limits on your controller, lvc, hvc, and power.
As mentioned above, you can try my kits. They are capable of high amps and were proven to be reliable. People use them on skateboards unprotected, under the deck. If you are a maker, buying 3d printer and printing enclosures yourself would save you some money and you will have machine for other projects and arround the house.