Blue Dream: Maxarya Ray 2 Semi Recumbent w/high eff mid drive
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
I finally shaved just enough metal off the pedals to get it to stop knocking on the fork when turning, and gave 'er another spin.
This time i did an experiment. The rear spring was kinda saggy, so i tightened it up a ton so the rear was elevated. I proceeded to let 10psi out of the front air fork to make it sag more.
Well it turns out i was right about raising the front impacting the handling. I may have only altered the bike 1-2 degrees, but it helped!
I noticed that if i could tilt the handlebars back a lot, i had barely enough reach to adjust the seat so that it's tilted backwards another 1-3 degrees. This seemed like it allowed me to pedal at a higher gear, however the frontend became chatty and rough despite the suspension. ( Maybe i should have let even more air out of the fork.. )
I remember the original aluminum fork though.. it was freaking loud and extremely rattly with the seat at it's most upright position. I think this indicates a weight balance issue in the original design.
18" front wheel is the answer here.. now if i could only find a 18" wheel with disc, lol.
I think 16.5lbs of motor and battery weight up front could help a lot.
Well, i think i've figured out how much room i have to improve geometry/handling at least, the bike is now cleared for electrification.
This time i did an experiment. The rear spring was kinda saggy, so i tightened it up a ton so the rear was elevated. I proceeded to let 10psi out of the front air fork to make it sag more.
Well it turns out i was right about raising the front impacting the handling. I may have only altered the bike 1-2 degrees, but it helped!
I noticed that if i could tilt the handlebars back a lot, i had barely enough reach to adjust the seat so that it's tilted backwards another 1-3 degrees. This seemed like it allowed me to pedal at a higher gear, however the frontend became chatty and rough despite the suspension. ( Maybe i should have let even more air out of the fork.. )
I remember the original aluminum fork though.. it was freaking loud and extremely rattly with the seat at it's most upright position. I think this indicates a weight balance issue in the original design.
18" front wheel is the answer here.. now if i could only find a 18" wheel with disc, lol.
I think 16.5lbs of motor and battery weight up front could help a lot.
Well, i think i've figured out how much room i have to improve geometry/handling at least, the bike is now cleared for electrification.
Last edited:
Dunno but i'm short torso with long limbs and 6ft. tall.
My body fits bikes intended for people who are 6'3".
Yeah, i have spent years trying to find a bike with just a slightly longer wheelbase and full suspension.
Of course the longer of semi recumbents don't have suspension.
I had a medium size BikeE though, it was def too small for me, and i sat practically at the edge of the seat adjustment, but it handled excellently, if not a little squirrely due to the short wheelbase. The cannondale was like riding the bike equivalent of a BMW sports car - would feel confident canyon carving at high speed with it.
I think the geometry of the bike is poor and the countercorrections will make it an 'okay' bike.
Long term i think building my own frame is the way to go.
PS i just found out that in addition to Maxarya quitting the bike business, so has Rans.
Of course the longer of semi recumbents don't have suspension.
I had a medium size BikeE though, it was def too small for me, and i sat practically at the edge of the seat adjustment, but it handled excellently, if not a little squirrely due to the short wheelbase. The cannondale was like riding the bike equivalent of a BMW sports car - would feel confident canyon carving at high speed with it.
I think the geometry of the bike is poor and the countercorrections will make it an 'okay' bike.
Long term i think building my own frame is the way to go.
PS i just found out that in addition to Maxarya quitting the bike business, so has Rans.
Epithemeus
100 W
What about the sun ez-rider? Too long? Does have the rear suspension though not the front. 2005 Sun Bicycles EZ - Bicycle Details - BicycleBlueBook.com
They aren't sold new anymore that I can tell (does anybody have new semi recumbents at all??? I feel sunseeker is the only one) but I see them on the used market occasionally.
I dream of that too.
That link glitches out when i click it.
I'm imagining you're linking to a sun ez-rider AX?
That bike has a great length but i think they've been out of production since the 2000's.
The funny thing is, it wouldn't be hard.
The bikeE has very good geometry and consists of a giant extruded aluminum square with parts bolted to it. It would be incredibly easy to manufacture a v2 of and patents for the design may be expired / not enforced at this point.
It's a good demonstration of how simple the construction of a bike could be, and would be a great starting point for a DIY open source recumbent design.
BTW this design was the work of a professor of mechanical engineering at a university in Oregon. For purposes of economizing the product, the design is sheer genius. Aesthetically, it's quite boring. I think bikeE v2 has an aesthetics upgrade but doesn't really touch the core design principles of 'a giant bar with stuff bolted to it'.
The only reason i haven't built my own recumbent bike is because i live in an apartment and there's no possibility of welding here. But i can do the cutting and machining here ( thank you, quiet modern rotary tools ) and hire someone to weld it.
Future TODO: design this
I'm imagining you're linking to a sun ez-rider AX?
That bike has a great length but i think they've been out of production since the 2000's.
The funny thing is, it wouldn't be hard.
The bikeE has very good geometry and consists of a giant extruded aluminum square with parts bolted to it. It would be incredibly easy to manufacture a v2 of and patents for the design may be expired / not enforced at this point.
It's a good demonstration of how simple the construction of a bike could be, and would be a great starting point for a DIY open source recumbent design.
BTW this design was the work of a professor of mechanical engineering at a university in Oregon. For purposes of economizing the product, the design is sheer genius. Aesthetically, it's quite boring. I think bikeE v2 has an aesthetics upgrade but doesn't really touch the core design principles of 'a giant bar with stuff bolted to it'.
The only reason i haven't built my own recumbent bike is because i live in an apartment and there's no possibility of welding here. But i can do the cutting and machining here ( thank you, quiet modern rotary tools ) and hire someone to weld it.
Future TODO: design this
Attachments
I have similar plans Nep, including doing the welding myself...we should collaborate! Hopefully my welding improves before then. Problem is I have way to many projects and repairs for now to get to it....like repairing the rear suspension mounts on my BikeE AT for the 3rd time. Just finished last night!
It's almost as if it was never designed for a 20Kg Battery, 7KG hub motor and high speed off-roading and large jumps.
It's almost as if it was never designed for a 20Kg Battery, 7KG hub motor and high speed off-roading and large jumps.
Attachments
I'm part of a very active and helpful BikeE facebook group that includes several of the original company owners/inventors who are very engaged/responsive. You should definitely join!
Cheers
PaPaSteve
10 kW
Rans changed hands
As a bike racer / designer . . . measuring the weight balance with me on the finish bike as it would be used was always done.
As a bike racer / designer . . . measuring the weight balance with me on the finish bike as it would be used was always done.
Wow cowardlyduck, you are beating on that thang, sounds like a lot of fun though!
Yeah we could certainly use one that's a bit heavier intended for high speed use. The platform is too fun and nobody is really innovating in it, semi recumbent electric bikes are so far a joke also ( i think you've built some of the best ones )
Shoot, i swore off FB in 2018, but that would be a good reason to temporarily rejoin.
A main thing i want to know is why the business failed, selling the most affordable recumbent on the market. That's the story i'd love to hear from a business POV.
The next step after you build the ultimate open source bike design is to sell it.
Yeah we could certainly use one that's a bit heavier intended for high speed use. The platform is too fun and nobody is really innovating in it, semi recumbent electric bikes are so far a joke also ( i think you've built some of the best ones )
Shoot, i swore off FB in 2018, but that would be a good reason to temporarily rejoin.
A main thing i want to know is why the business failed, selling the most affordable recumbent on the market. That's the story i'd love to hear from a business POV.
The next step after you build the ultimate open source bike design is to sell it.
And it's a story they've recounted a number of times over the years.
Log into Facebook
Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com
From memory/summarised it folded because of Giant's corporate greed.
Giant made a deal with BikeE to help manufacture their frames out of Taiwan. It worked for a few years, but then Giant thought they could do better....out came the Giant Revive, and away went BikeE after Giant reneged on the deal leaving BikeE in the lurch.
I could be remembering wrong, but I think an entity still exists and holds the original patents and keeps them active preventing reuse.
If I were to make something new, it would probably consist of box sections large enough for 2170 cells, then I would play around with a bolt together Y configuration to see if I could cram 2 + 1 'rows' of cells in there. Similar to what I did with my CT internally, but split into the Y. If done right I reckon I could cram about 2Kwh into it and you would not be able to 'see' any battery.
Cheers
Phew, i'm so happy to see that!
Sounds about right.
What's your take on the geometry of the maxarya and it's poor weight balance?
Does the bike e bounce when pedaling?
Yes, but only if no gearing modification is made.
For me as I use a Schlumpf ATS speed drive, while the 2.5:1 ratio is in use (almost always) I experience no bounce.
Also, stock the BikeE came with a 3 speed Sachs hub. This would also negate most of the pedal bounce in a similar way. i.e. if the pedal stroke can be decoupled from the power stroke through gearing, no bounce is experienced.
Cheers
Did you ever ride a bigha? https://www.bentrideronline.com/archives/reviews/BiGHA/bigha.htm
Also here's a bit of history and design analysis for bikeE: BikeE Recumbents - Bicycle Man
Funny he recommends maxarya as a better design to the bikeE. The bigha looks solid but he downplayed it as overpriced and heavy.
Craigslist shows quite a few rear suspended models and a few full suspension. Different frame sizes as well. Maybe stick to your favorite?
Have your ever ridden the hp velotechnik spirit? I always wondered about that full suspension system. Or the bacchetta Cafe (non-suspended off course)?
Ah, go figure.. things often go wrong with much bigger businesses.
I found some more info:
What Ever Happened To BikeE | Recumbent Riders International
I always thought they should have sold them for a bit more money. They were apparently not making a profit.
Aw, too bad. We don't necessarily want to copy the bikeE though, a number of references of good geometry exist!
If I were to make something new, it would probably consist of box sections large enough for 2170 cells, then I would play around with a bolt together Y configuration to see if I could cram 2 + 1 'rows' of cells in there. Similar to what I did with my CT internally, but split into the Y. If done right I reckon I could cram about 2Kwh into it and you would not be able to 'see' any battery.
Yes this does sound a lot like your dream bike!
Okay, i have another 2 rides in.
I lowered the air pressure on the frontend and it eliminated the chattering, thank heavens.
I find that with the seat angle on the 'middle' position, the bike is more impressive on pedal power but when i'm merging between cars and need to look backwards, i have to lean forward & twist my torso, which upsets the bike's balance. I find it kind of unsafe because the bike will be made so that it can blend in and out of car lanes.
I reverted it to the high setting. I think i'll be able to move to the medium setting if i go with a 18" front wheel, but for now, nah.
I lowered the air pressure on the frontend and it eliminated the chattering, thank heavens.
I find that with the seat angle on the 'middle' position, the bike is more impressive on pedal power but when i'm merging between cars and need to look backwards, i have to lean forward & twist my torso, which upsets the bike's balance. I find it kind of unsafe because the bike will be made so that it can blend in and out of car lanes.
I reverted it to the high setting. I think i'll be able to move to the medium setting if i go with a 18" front wheel, but for now, nah.
I have a similar problem on my BikeE. I mostly don't worry about it as I barely ride on the road with cars, but when I do, I can't really look around properly, instead relying on sound, and reflections in my sunglasses to detect if a car is nearby.
Sounds like we should both consider mirrors. Either handlebar end mounted or helmet mounted.
Cheers
Okay it turns out i'm wrong, Maxarya is still in the bike business, it's just that they're in the middle of a website redesign, and the site's been broken for weeks.
Good to hear, i'm glad this thread isn't worthless because i'm talking about a bike you can't buy anymore.
Still interested in going custom long term.
Good to hear, i'm glad this thread isn't worthless because i'm talking about a bike you can't buy anymore.
Still interested in going custom long term.
Bought some sunlite chopper bars from ebay, fitted them, and finally solved my reach problem. However i must be in upright mode for it to work. i still have inadequate reach for laid back goodness; frustrating
Pictured is the difference in reach with the stock handlebar versus the chopper bar.
I see that the chopper bar gets me an additional 8 inches of reach and it completely changes the handling/steering. Slow speed, high angle turns are still difficult unlike with the bikeE. When performing this maneuver, it feels like the frontend is resisting me. I think this goes back to the frontend height.
With this big bar, when getting started, the bike is 3x easier to balance and the steering is a lot more confident. The reason might be because i had inadequate leverage. My arms didn't have any bend in them, so the amount of steering i could do was very short.
I have proportionally long arms so the reach problem for a normal proportion human would be even worse.
At least we have a fix!
Pictured is the difference in reach with the stock handlebar versus the chopper bar.
I see that the chopper bar gets me an additional 8 inches of reach and it completely changes the handling/steering. Slow speed, high angle turns are still difficult unlike with the bikeE. When performing this maneuver, it feels like the frontend is resisting me. I think this goes back to the frontend height.
With this big bar, when getting started, the bike is 3x easier to balance and the steering is a lot more confident. The reason might be because i had inadequate leverage. My arms didn't have any bend in them, so the amount of steering i could do was very short.
I have proportionally long arms so the reach problem for a normal proportion human would be even worse.
At least we have a fix!
Well well.
I've got a couple more miles in the saddle and i can say that me and the bike finally became friends after all this time.
The rear has significant bob when pedaling, which i can tell is robbing me of energy, but with an electric motor, the rear will want to compress and this doesn't matter.
Cannot find a bike shop that has a tool to compress the crappy DNM spring to remove some bobbing in the meantime. The rear currently rides like a boat-car from the 1970's
The 8 speed gearing is now inadequate for acoustic bike usage and my local LBS convinced me to convert to a 10 speed Shimano linkglide setup. This involves changing every part of the rear drivetrain and costs $260. I'm hoping that this will be worth the money.
3x more durable? we'll check that claim with a strong pedaler and 1200w mid drive
Anyway, what's left?
Bikee doesn't have a 127.5mm BB so they suggested taking the cup(s) off my 123mm and putting it on an inexpensive Chinese BB that's designed to have at least 1 cup removed.
Ordered on ebay.
Battery mounting is still a question.
I tried a triple bob from ebikes.ca on my upright bike. It's quite nice with my 52v 19.5ah battery, however there is some side to side sway ( 2mm? ) in the battery case to battery mount itself.
Since i will mount this battery at the front of the bike, any sway in the battery isn't acceptable. There are no bottle bosses in that area, so if i used the triple bob, i might get unwanted sway.
I need to use the sides of the bike's main tube to provide as close to perfect lateral stability for the battery as possible.
Need to think about it, the answer probably involves thick aluminum channel or plates compressed against the bike's frame to make lateral motion of the battery platform basically impossible.
I've got a couple more miles in the saddle and i can say that me and the bike finally became friends after all this time.
The rear has significant bob when pedaling, which i can tell is robbing me of energy, but with an electric motor, the rear will want to compress and this doesn't matter.
Cannot find a bike shop that has a tool to compress the crappy DNM spring to remove some bobbing in the meantime. The rear currently rides like a boat-car from the 1970's
The 8 speed gearing is now inadequate for acoustic bike usage and my local LBS convinced me to convert to a 10 speed Shimano linkglide setup. This involves changing every part of the rear drivetrain and costs $260. I'm hoping that this will be worth the money.
3x more durable? we'll check that claim with a strong pedaler and 1200w mid drive
Anyway, what's left?
Bikee doesn't have a 127.5mm BB so they suggested taking the cup(s) off my 123mm and putting it on an inexpensive Chinese BB that's designed to have at least 1 cup removed.
Ordered on ebay.
Battery mounting is still a question.
I tried a triple bob from ebikes.ca on my upright bike. It's quite nice with my 52v 19.5ah battery, however there is some side to side sway ( 2mm? ) in the battery case to battery mount itself.
Since i will mount this battery at the front of the bike, any sway in the battery isn't acceptable. There are no bottle bosses in that area, so if i used the triple bob, i might get unwanted sway.
I need to use the sides of the bike's main tube to provide as close to perfect lateral stability for the battery as possible.
Need to think about it, the answer probably involves thick aluminum channel or plates compressed against the bike's frame to make lateral motion of the battery platform basically impossible.
