BMC V2 600 watt....is it bomb proof?

[Green Machine]

I am so sick of smoking bmc v3 motors or controllers on only slightly rigorous conditions...even when limited to 30 amps, climbing trails on the off road seem too much for it on 48 volts.

I have had some experience with v2 600w motors and have never blown one...and have 3 friends with bmc 600's who have not yet roasted a motor or controller.

I want to do some serious trail climbing and adventures on the northern coast.... up some long fire roads (not too steep but go long and high) etc...

I wonder if the 600 watt is up to the task. I have no false illusions...i know i am not going to be able to climb optibike style up super steep climbs...unfortunately i think i am bound to do a lot of "bike hiking" (motor assisted bike hiking atleast) unless i decide to go with a dual awd bmc 600v2 torque set up which i am seriously contemplating.

I know the v3 is not ready for prime time yet...at this point i have had 6 bmc motor or controller burn outs on the v3 in less than a year and none on the v2...granted my first 3 v3 burn outs happend after buying from high power cycles who told me it was ok to run that thing at 50 amps....a complete fallacy i think. When i had ilia from ebikes SF do the controller modification so that i could limit current using the cycle analyst the motor became more reliable...but i still feel that bmc 50a controller heating up with even moderate paved climbs. I am ready to do some serious off road riding (50 mile trips up the coast line)...and am thinking of trading in my 1000 for a 600...also let me know if someone out there wants to trade a 600 for a 1000.

What has been your guys experience riding the 600 watt v2 under strenuous conditions?

By the way the vendors for bmc, ilia from ebikes sf and the guys from high power cycles have all been great with the bmc warranty support for me. So even though i went through a lot of motors and controllers riding the v3...they were all covered by warranty. I live in san franciso so hills are fierce and demanding on any ebike motor....but these guys are definitely standing behind there products and working with bmc to make the v3 more reliable. I think both companies are pushing the 600v2 because it seems much more solid...especially with the crystalite controller....the question is....how solid is it?

I definately think bmc is the best current option for a hub motor, and may be the best ebike solution over all when considering speed, efficiency, STEALTH (very important), weight, and free wheeling capacities....i am pretty much sticking with bmc until something better comes along...but which one...

 

[neptronix]

granted my first 3 v3 burn outs happend after buying from high power cycles who told me it was ok to run that thing at 50 amps....a complete fallacy i think.

50amps is far over what the motor can handle without seriously reinforced gears, i am amazed that they sold the controller jacked up that high. I wonder if the windings can even take that power for a long period of time... insane..

Geared hub motors are also generally not ideal for serious off roading, i bet you weren't warned about that either? Hard shocks to the wheel are known to damage the gears.

 

[Green Machine]

I am not talking serious off roading like going off jumps, i am talking just climbing semi-steep fire roads for big distances...being geared the bmc should do that.

If you look on ebay high power cycles is still selling the 1000w bmc v3 running it at 50 amps...they advertise it as a 2500 watt bike (50amps x 48 volts)...i dont think they do any custom work like Ilia does which is altering the bmc controller so that it can be limited by the cylcle analyst. They also dont have the knowledge that Ilia does, that running that motor over 30 amps even is suicide. It shocks me they are still selling that bike and pumping it as a 40mph 2500 watt machine...a configuration i know smokes that motor...i keep hoping that bmc has changed the motor or someone has upgraded the wiring, because that bike is funner than a bucket of monkeys at 50 amps, but i doubt it. Honestly i dont know how they do it.

Has anyone torched a 600 watt bmc motor or controller? No one i know has....

 

[snowranger]

I've been running my BMC V1 with V2 reinforced gears on an xtracycle for 7000 miles now all over San Francisco hills (including the Presidio/Pacific Heights/etc). It is highly reliable for my purposes, but the hills are only several hundred feet tall. I don't know how well it would do for sustained hill climbing. Max amps is 25 on 50 volts.

 

[kfong]

My setup is the 600v2T at 40 volts and 35amp limit, with a max speed of 20-21mph. No issues. I posted a thread on my bike and did a lot of research before I built it. I've done lots of 25-30mile rides on a FS frame. Usually with little or no breaks during the ride. This bike was setup just for trail riding, with reliability being top on the list. My favorite trail ride is highland state park. Rated with some advance single track on
mmba http://mmba.org/index.php?option=com_trailguide&task=trail&cid[]=6
I usually can't get through it without a fall or two. I don't treat the bike any different from a regular trail bike. I do let up on the throttle after any jumps and I am pedaling the whole time, which does keep the gears from getting over stressed. The gears are the composite green ones as well. It's been very reliable, and I have no problem taking it deep into the woods. I kept the power level down since high watts will peanut butter the gears. The speed is about as fast as I care to go in single track and I am able to shift through 27 gears to assist. Just have to wait till spring so I can be riding again.

 

[Ariane]

Hi,

IMHO about this post you really need (2) ebikes to fit your needs. I really think a 2WD with MAC motor's can be your ticket. Those motor's are cheaper than BMC motor and for the price of one BMC motor V2S or V2 torque you can get (2) motors and you just need 2 infineon 12 Mosfets programmable controller for them, no needs of an expensive BMC controller for nothing in this case :x

This over all set up even if you change the gears on both motor for BMC gears is very cheaper for similar or close performance of 2WD BMC set up. In this case even if you burn one motor you don't have to be worry about the price you have paid for it. :wink:

If it was my ebike for "off road" I will use a metal gears in this ebike to be sure that I can ride it everywhere and once and a wile a put some grease on this metal sprocket like we need to do with a chain on motocross.

Even with the metal gears this set up remains quieter than a chain drive set up. And can still use your other bike for bicycle path and road riding at high speed every time you want it my 2 cent's.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[ryan]

I have a similar goal and have been looking at the BMC v2 for a cargo bike build.

My goal is to climb every major peak in the Bay Area... Mt. Tam (2571), Mt. Hamilton (4360), and Mt. Diablo (3849), St. Helena (4343), etc. All at a pace faster than their unassisted bike records.

I'll let you know if my x5 was up to the challenge later this spring/summer. My new Lyen controller will definitely help.

But if you can do anything similar with a BMC v2, I definitely want to know about it.

 

[ryan]

Here's a great chart of some great rides in our area...
http://www.actc.org/profiles/index.php

You can even compare the elevation gain from two different approaches.

 

[Green Machine]

I recently did the Mount Tam peak ride, starting out on the railroad grade fire trail in downtown mill valley to the top of Mount Tam. I was on my bmc v3 1000 mountain bike, along with 2 friends who were both on 600 watt bmc v2s....absolutely no problem.

This ride was a breeze. I think you will have no problem climbing those peeks if you stick to hard road....mind you our mount tam ride was on very gravelly fire roads.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I have been building and using bikes for exactly what you are wanting
I have found 3 successful ways.
(1) use a 20" geared wheel with a push trailer and a motorcycle tire(my favoriate setup)
(2) 2 wheel drive cutom wound to slower RPMS. I found that you need around 1500 watts constant to make it up logging roads and 10 MPH is pretty fast on theses roads.
(3) use mechanical advantage like a stokey money or some kind of motor that goes thru your gearing (I really dislike this set up due to noise and the obvious fact its electric).

If you try and run BMC motors (any of them) you will burn controllers out pretty consistantly.
I use on average of 2 AH per mile at 48v with heavy pedaling.

 

[cell_man]

BMC and Mac collaborated until not so long ago, they are very similar as is the Ezee, which is basically a 350W Mac with the smaller stator. Buy a Mac, pull it apart and compare it to your BMC, you will not find much difference. The only real thing the BMC has had over the Mac is they have stronger gear material, but that situation will soon change as new gears will be soon available. I've been running some pre-production gears for months as has a customer of mine and I can't break them, nor can he. Granted I run my bike on the flat. I'm now using the fast wound Mac motor, same configuration as the BMC V3, with the standard 12 fet IRFB4110 infineon and see just over 2500W max and it will get up to about 60kph at 48V. I've also pushed a motor to over 3500W and got 70kph for a few kilometers out of 500W Mac running 24S A123, nothing broken. The high speed motor is definitely much harder on controllers. A slower motor, running higher voltage could be a better option IMO and negate the need for crazy current controllers.

I personally think the V3 equivalent wind is good for a 36V bike, but it's maybe a bit too fast for a 48V pack in a 26" wheel, as these motors haven't really got the power to convincingly pull up to those speeds IMO. The standard 500W wind has 2 more turns and does about 50kph on 48V, similar to a V2S. The high speed motor is very hard on controllers, if you plan on hitting the hills, don't get a V3. Anyway, the V3 is not going to be able to take much more power than a V2 running a higher voltage. The stator, magnets etc are the same. The V3 will just make more power at a lower voltage.

The good thing about the Mac is that you can have it in virtually whatever rpm you require, within reason. I can arrange them wound to whatever. Lowest speed is around 160rpm loaded at 36V (lower rpm than a typical 15mph 250W geared motor), fastest is almost 400rpm loaded at 36V just like the V3 BMC (almost 30mph at 36V).

 

[aaronski]

I've smoked a BmC 48v controller, and a BMC clutch.

the controller died on a fire road in northern california at about 25% grade for about 2 blocks, after 30 minutes of previously heavy climbing. the motor never bogged down though, I think I cooked it. It ran after that, but lost sync, or something, and would die if it hit a bump.

the motor's clutch died after about 1200 miles of "instant start" mode, in stop/go city driving, and a few of the above mentioned weekends. I also have a 20% 3 block climb home every day, which might have added to it's stress.