BMC V2 new clutch and rewire

[neptronix]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22103

Said axle seal consists of an indentation in the side cover plate apparently. I don't see how that would be particularly sealing..
As with all hub motors, water will come in through the bearing.

MAC also has 'gray gears' ready for use now so the gear advantage is no longer in BMC's court.

I like the MAC design because it is way, way easier to get the gears out if need be.
The MAC also isolates the gears from the heat of the windings a bit more. I like that because it prevents the grease from being flung onto the windings.

 

[mr.electric]

I agree that BMC/MAc is a good option for under 2500 watts. The Crystalites and 9c's are powerhouses. I enjoy the balance of power and weight on the BMC. I have a 9c too but I feel that the BMC is more refined ...and more temperamental.
I just did a rewire on a friend's BMC and cut a slot for extra wire space. He wants to amp it up. I feel like 35 amps 48v is a good set up for most riding with my bmc 1000.

 

[biohazardman]

I do think the BMCs are built a bit better and stronger as far as being worth the extra money over a MAC that's got to be up to the $ you want to spend, how you ride, the weather conditions and terrain. I like that the V2T has more phase wire and a better clutch but would have bought another V2S if they had the same upgrades. I had to do them myself on the first V2S and really did not like it much. Having a real hard time deciding on whether I should try the V2T and see if I have the probably syncing issue like I have now or get out the programming cable and see if I can't at least smoke something before I trade motors. ;^)

 

[biohazardman]

lemme know if you need some help when you recover more. at least you are back online again.

what rain? how about 6 days this year over 60 degrees? or 2 that made it to 70? i am still using my wood stove.

Ah, my computers are both running XP64 you have a laptop with plain ole XP don't you. ;^)
I need to find the program and play with my controller when you have the time and are up to it. Then I will know if I have to change motors or not.
Going to be a real person again starting Sunday as I go back to werqing days and will have Sun, Mon off. Oh and the weather is gooder than in the places it snows all the time and don't forget two of those days were in hte middle of winter.

 

[mr.electric]

Sorry if this has already been covered but does the Lyen sensorless controller work with BMC. Axing the phase wires would be satisfying. Soldering new phase wires to the board is the most annoying part of rewiring a BMC.
I have another BMC 1000 to rewire next week. It has the wires in the axle tube melted.

 

[snowranger]

No. I tried one of the Lyen sensorless with my V1, and it ran really badly. The most annoying part is soldering the hall wires since they're so close together on the PCB.

 

[mr.electric]

Is it fair to assume if a Lyen sensorless controller does not work with a V1 bmc it will not work with V2 and V3.

 

[snowranger]

Others have had problems with V2 as well with sensorless. Look up the threads. My guess is they are similar, but I am no BMC expert.

 

[biohazardman]

Sorry if this has already been covered but does the Lyen sensorless controller work with BMC. Axing the phase wires would be satisfying. Soldering new phase wires to the board is the most annoying part of rewiring a BMC.
I have another BMC 1000 to rewire next week. It has the wires in the axle tube melted.

I have been running my V2S with a Lyen 72V 45A for quite some time now. It werqs as well as the original controller that came with the kit as far a loosing synch under a low speed high torque situation which causes a growling noise, vibration and loss of power. Letting off the throttle and gently ramping up again allows one to continue acceleration. I have been running this for approximately 1500 miles and once I learned the limits I have few problems accelerating to speed without loosing synch as it is just a matter of going easy on the throttle until you get moving a bit. Once I hit the teens in MPH it really takes off and has no synch problems even at full throttle. The unit I have has the programming cable but I have not messed with it as yet. Mostly ran at 52V but now at 60V and have to go a bit easier on the throttle. I am hoping to figure this out soon or I will put my V2T on and see if it has the same problem.

Anyone with links or first hand info on solving this problem we could use some help. I have been looking for hours and found little.

 

[biohazardman]

I found this link to kfongs BMC V2T build he is using a C-lite 72V 35A and seems not to be having problems. Would be nice to have the pictures back as there is lots of info there.

 

[neptronix]

You have the same plugs on your infineon as mine, and most likely the same exact wiring scheme.
You really should pop by and try out my cellman controller. I think it is merely an issue of timing that can't be adjusted via the programming cable.

It is the Crystalyte analog controller you are looking for.
Not easy to fiind. I heard that they had a large defect rate too..

 

[biohazardman]

I cut most of the plugs off and am using a combination of barrels of different sizes and Andersons although I did leave the CA and programming plugs. I do however appreciate the offer and may take you up on it if my programming attempt does no good.

 

[mr.electric]

I would love to rewire a bmc v3 with just phase wires. A simpler process than rewiring it with hall wires too. I will be doing my 3rd rewire soon. Each time the motors have melted the wires in the axle tube. I am still happy with my BMC since I have only rewound other people's bmc motors my personal bmc kit is still on the original motor and controller.

 

[biohazardman]

Yup I know what you mean those little hall wires do make things much more interesting. Try using just one arm with very little help from the other and you will see where I was back then. Took me parts of three days to get the wire through but what's a guy to do when the addiction lingers for so long? I really don't want to do it again even with an almost useful arm and a half.

 

[Philistine]

I usually run 84V on either an X5 or 9C, but I am currently building up my Greyborg, in the meantime I have rediscovered my BMC V3 which I have been commuting to work on with 10S2P Lipo strapped to my crossbar. I love this thing, it is so light and so much more "bike like" than my monster X5 with 20S4P carted around. I forgot how much fun this BMC motor is. I just can't understand why anyone running less than 20S wouldn't use one of these geared hubs, they are so light and so much fun.

The reason for my posting is just on the comments people keep making about issues with infineon controllers. I stopped using my BMC when I blew up my BMC controller. But I am now running my BMC on a Lyen 12 Fet, and it runs perfectly (at least as good as on my BMC controller, maybe better). I asked LYen at the time about compatibility, and he said that the older model BMCs sometimes had problems with his controllers, and it had something to do with the spacing of the hall sensors, his exact words to me were:

The only suspected issue is the original BMC V1 that was manufactured a few years ago due to some of the hall sensors inside the motor were installed a few degrees off. So it rendered the 120 degree spacing out of sync and started to stutter at higher speed.

But as I said, I have been running a Lyen 12 Fet on my BMC V3 (bought a year ago) and it has been running perfectly.

 

[wineboyrider]

I usually run 84V on either an X5 or 9C, but I am currently building up my Greyborg, in the meantime I have rediscovered my BMC V3 which I have been commuting to work on with 10S2P Lipo strapped to my crossbar. I love this thing, it is so light and so much more "bike like" than my monster X5 with 20S4P carted around. I forgot how much fun this BMC motor is. I just can't understand why anyone running less than 20S wouldn't use one of these geared hubs, they are so light and so much fun.

The reason for my posting is just on the comments people keep making about issues with infineon controllers. I stopped using my BMC when I blew up my BMC controller. But I am now running my BMC on a Lyen 12 Fet, and it runs perfectly (at least as good as on my BMC controller, maybe better). I asked LYen at the time about compatibility, and he said that the older model BMCs sometimes had problems with his controllers, and it had something to do with the spacing of the hall sensors, his exact words to me were:

The only suspected issue is the original BMC V1 that was manufactured a few years ago due to some of the hall sensors inside the motor were installed a few degrees off. So it rendered the 120 degree spacing out of sync and started to stutter at higher speed.

But as I said, I have been running a Lyen 12 Fet on my BMC V3 (bought a year ago) and it has been running perfectly.

I have lyens 9fet controller on my BMC and it works great to 48v. But at higher than 48v (1500watts) it sporadically accelerates to 30 mph, but after 30 mph it runs great! Scary at that speed anyways.
Nicobie told me his worked good at higher voltages with a Crystalyte analog controller.

 

[mr.electric]

Im going to just try it. My friend just got a Lyen 18 sensorless. I wonder what he will say when I ask "can I borrow your controller for a few days" probably a bit annoying to the one lending it out but I need to try it.
I agree that the BMC has a beautiful balanced feel. With a single lipo pack you can even pedal the thing like a normal bike if you wanted to. I have a 14s lipo and the v3 never leaves me wanting anything more for recreational rides. I run the 50 amp controller and take it easy on hills so that my wires don't melt. I only wish I could make the thing bullet proof. According to Ilia the BMC dealer the next weak point after melted wires in the axle tube is overheated hall sensors. I guess the halls in the BMC are not happy being shut in a box like a toaster oven. I want to address the weak points as a preventative measure I don't plan on running any more power than I am currently running.

 

[dnmun]

duane, i can do the hall wires too if that was what hung you up. i just spent a week vacuuming, i think you know why, hehe.

 

[neptronix]

Im going to just try it. My friend just got a Lyen 18 sensorless. I wonder what he will say when I ask "can I borrow your controller for a few days" probably a bit annoying to the one lending it out but I need to try it.
I agree that the BMC has a beautiful balanced feel. With a single lipo pack you can even pedal the thing like a normal bike if you wanted to. I have a 14s lipo and the v3 never leaves me wanting anything more for recreational rides. I run the 50 amp controller and take it easy on hills so that my wires don't melt. I only wish I could make the thing bullet proof. According to Ilia the BMC dealer the next weak point after melted wires in the axle tube is overheated hall sensors. I guess the halls in the BMC are not happy being shut in a box like a toaster oven. I want to address the weak points as a preventative measure I don't plan on running any more power than I am currently running.

50 amps is too much. I don't know what you mean by babying it on hills. Peak amp draw is going to happen on hills, and lower speeds are more inefficient and generate more heat.

If you want to smooth out the hills, you need to run 100% throttle and pedal like a madman so that the hill ends as quick as possible.

I tuned my MAC to 35 amps peak. Seems to be the sweet spot where my motor is just getting barely warm. Should provide good thermal headroom for summer hill climbing.

 

[biohazardman]

Neptronics.

It does fine on the hills at speed but starting out or speeding up from low speeds on steep hills it does that weird growl vibrate and shutdown thing. I have no problem with full throttle past 10 or twelve MPH but must go easy on the throttle till then. I can do thirty over the Gresham Burnside hill just past 202nd without pedaling so has to be steeper than that to cause a problem.

 

[biohazardman]

duane, i can do the hall wires too if that was what hung you up. i just spent a week vacuuming, i think you know why, hehe.

I got the rewire done awhile back including double phase wires and put in a V3 clutch while I was at it. Halls were a pain but they got done also. I need the neighborhood vacuumed up as there are too many hoods around can you help me out? Better get out the industrial unit or maybe we could rent one of them Asplundh wood chippers for those that are too big to be vacuumed up.
I'm just tired of babying the throttle from a stop so have another motor and now thinking controller so I can hit the two dirt hills and one driveway that won't let me ride up them. They are short steep hills that I should be able to ride up but the motor won't cooperate in low speed high torque situations. Other than that it's great.

 

[mr.electric]

I rewired a v3 today. It went well. I pulled the old wires out then fed through a piece of 16 gauge wire. I connected the bundle of new phase and hall wires to the piece of 16 gauge and soldered the 16 to one of the hall wires. Then I pulled the new wires through. Next I resoldered the connections and glued all the loose phase wires down and away from the side cover. This is my 3rd rewire job and I got it done in about 2 hours. I have may have yet another v3 to rewire soon. If someone finds a sensorless set up it would be possible to rewire more quickly using thicker wires. I spent a good deal of the time figuring out how to pull through the wires and an equal amount of time desoldering and soldering the hall wires to the hall sensor board.

 

[biohazardman]

I used to do things in less than 2 hours when I was younger but most things take longer than that now. ;^) Two hours is fast I have only done one motor so it was a learn as you go affair. With one near useless arm it took me parts of three days to get it done. I really don't want to do another one so may never get near two hours and if I do I ain't going to tell anybody cuz I don't want to do more.

 

[biohazardman]

At about 6K I started having some stuttering problems on acceleration, even when I went easy on the throttle, when it got bad I contacted Lyen about a new controller. He said I had the wrong one on the bike from the start and offered to take it in trade for a version 2 unit. I just bought another thinking I could use the first one in another build. I installed it on the BMC V2S motor but no joy nothing changed. Hooked up the test unit I got from him and found hall problems which I had suspected in the first place. Since I had a V2T already in a rim I just replaced the motor. New motor and controller and the thing took the front wheel off the ground as I stood on the pedals coming out of a turn! Still I had problems when I tried to go easy on the throttle. I did not think the motor would last long with that kind of acceleration. With a few PMs to Lyen I got the programming stuff figured out and it's up and running well again albeit with a top speed of 28MPH @ 66V. I will have to pull the side plate on the V2S motor to see if it is a wiring or hall sensor problem.

 

[biohazardman]

Well I fergot to finish this up. I figured there was nothing wrong with the V2S so after a short run with the higher torque V2T I put the V2S back in. It was a wiring problem, caused by me although I could not see it, cuz once I did most of it over all the problems went away. Bike and BMC V2S are at 10K miles now, running at 66-72V and still with stuttering problems that are easy to overcome by just not trying to cruise at speeds at which it stutters. I have many hours into programming three different Infineon controllers and as yet they all stutter at higher voltages 60-72V and between 12-26mph cruising speeds depending on voltages and programming. Little or no stutter while accelerating to speed when done correctly. I have not touched the motor for near 4K now and after the last wire repair all is good. I just go to werq and play a bit over 3K a year with few issues and very little maintenance.