snowranger
10 kW
I have talked to Ilia, and he did say that the V4 is a new version. Going to be pricey though. Wish those $300 clearance motors from hipower were still around.
oatnet said:neptronix said:The V4 uses the same side covers and motor case.. how is it a brand new motor?
I think the V4 is vaporware. Has anyone seen/heard anything about a geared BMC "V4" motor from anyone besides BetterBike for-sale post? BetterBike is not my preferred source for BMC info, and at their markups, definitely not my preferred source for product either. I bet they are listing the '2011 V2", with the new gears and double-phase wires, as a 'V4" model, and pretending it is a new motor. Wheras the V1, V2, and V3 have different windings, I'd bet the motor they advertise as 'new' doesn't change the windings.
-JD
neptronix said:Dunno who sells the BMC in Europe.
Cell_man sells MAC motors direct out of China and ships internationally though.
Dunno if China shipping + import taxes to Europe are expensive but the MAC cost about half the money so that helps i'm sure.. lol
neptronix said:You know i have a MAC motor with the original white gears.. no suspension, i weigh 250lbs, i pump 1800 watts constant, 2300 peak into the motor regularly... those gears and clutch have not failed me.
neptronix said:So the only thing that the "BMC V4" has over the MAC is the increased amount of copper and "10% efficiency gain" ( pretty wild claim IMHO ) over the MAC motor.
oatnet said:I get the sense that you are trying to pit the BMC against the MAC, which is sorta like comparing the base model Camero to the base model Firebird - they are two different companies take on the SAME design, the differences are nuances, not fundamentals. There is no reason that MAC can't introduce the same windings used on the BMC. They can probably develop gears with similar properties, maybe they already have, maybe their gears are stronger, I don't know.
Most BMC sellers (highpowercycles, betterybikes) have obnoxious markups; Ilia (ebikes_sf) is the only BMC vendor I know of with reasonable prices, I have bought a lot of product from him with good results. BMC has shipped motors with some grevious factory flaws, which is especially aggravating if you paid the high markup from somewhere else. cell_man has an angle on the MAC motors which makes them pretty cheap from him; I have also bought a bunch of product from cell_man with good results. Although both vendors are reliable, and both motors are similar, there are nuances that might lead a customer to one seller/motor or the other - basically you can't go wrong either way.
As for the V4 winding - in the end, I wasn't pleased with the V3. While the V2 works with about any controller, the newer-more-efficient-V3 was a controller-smoking pain for me, so a more efficient winding in the V4 doesn't excite me.
-JD
neptronix said:MAC does have wider stronger gears just like the BMC V4; they introduced wider gears before BMC actually.
neptronix said:Yeah, go pump 50 amps x 72 volts into a V3
neptronix said:I am trying to pit the two together. I fail to understand why the BMC costs so much more and a simple thing like a clutch + gear assembly runs over $100.
....
BTW, MAC motors are cheap even from vendors other than cell_man; it's just that cell_man has the lowest price on em, plus ships internationally. I have priced out some from a vendor in CA ( i forget, maybe it was lyen? ) And it was still nowhere near the BMC price.
oatnet said:neptronix said:I am trying to pit the two together. I fail to understand why the BMC costs so much more and a simple thing like a clutch + gear assembly runs over $100.
....
BTW, MAC motors are cheap even from vendors other than cell_man; it's just that cell_man has the lowest price on em, plus ships internationally. I have priced out some from a vendor in CA ( i forget, maybe it was lyen? ) And it was still nowhere near the BMC price.
I have not found the MAC at for sale from a US vendor, if you can supply the data point of an advertised price lower than ebikes-sf's BMC, you could change my opinion. Lacking that, it is my opinion that you aren't actually comparing motors, you are comparing a vendor in USA with a vendor in China. Here is the difference: cell_man has a hookup at MAC, he buys the motor at LOCAL CHINESE prices, not the prices for exporting to Rich Americans. If he had a hookup at BMC, he could get those motors for a similar price. Since cell_man ships directly to you, you dont have to pay the importing costs, customs fees, and markup by the importer/reseller who owns rights to sell the motor in the USA. Thanks to cell_man, you can bypass the expense of the whole retail chain - which probably accounts for a lot of the savings.
-JD
Grizzlybear said:I've just built a rear Mac motor up into a rim for a friend, and found the disc mounting surface to be throwing quite badly. It's not going to be a problem as he's using caliper brakes, but would definitely be a problem if he was using a disc brake. A few questions before purchase might be wise for potential buyers of Mac motors using disc brakes.
oatnet said:Grizzlybear said:I've just built a rear Mac motor up into a rim for a friend, and found the disc mounting surface to be throwing quite badly. It's not going to be a problem as he's using caliper brakes, but would definitely be a problem if he was using a disc brake. A few questions before purchase might be wise for potential buyers of Mac motors using disc brakes.
I can't think of a hub motor line where I haven't had this problem sometimes, I wouldn't put this at MAC's doorstep, it is more of a made-in-china issue.
-JD
Kris B Krunch said:So, anyone out there with some testing on the new v4's? I'm still probably a month or two out from actualy buying my motor, currently on my honeymoon with some big bills to pay over the next while.
I was pretty much set on a v2t but I am currious about the new ones.
Thanks
Have an old 52V 10AH high current battery which should be good enough for now. And for the time being I'll be restricting the current to ~35A continuous (~1750W) via the current-limiting jumpers in the controller to help prevent the infamous BMC wire meltdowns. Hopefully they've also upgraded the wiring on this one. Supposedly the V4S (high speed version) should still be able to hit 40 mph on a 26" wheel at that power level. We'll see...Kris B Krunch said:That sounds great. What did you do for a battery and how many watts do you plan to run it at?
ebikerbythesea said:Have an old 52V 10AH high current battery which should be good enough for now. And for the time being I'll be restricting the current to ~35A continuous (~1750W) via the current-limiting jumpers in the controller to help prevent the infamous BMC wire meltdowns. Hopefully they've also upgraded the wiring on this one. Supposedly the V4S (high speed version) should still be able to hit 40 mph on a 26" wheel at that power level. We'll see...Kris B Krunch said:That sounds great. What did you do for a battery and how many watts do you plan to run it at?
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, just didn't know the right word for them :? I agree, the cycle analyst throttle mod is a much better way to go, but all I've got for now is my humble Watts Up meter...will probably upgrade soon but for the time being, just being cheap!oatnet said:ebikerbythesea said:Have an old 52V 10AH high current battery which should be good enough for now. And for the time being I'll be restricting the current to ~35A continuous (~1750W) via the current-limiting jumpers in the controller to help prevent the infamous BMC wire meltdowns. Hopefully they've also upgraded the wiring on this one. Supposedly the V4S (high speed version) should still be able to hit 40 mph on a 26" wheel at that power level. We'll see...Kris B Krunch said:That sounds great. What did you do for a battery and how many watts do you plan to run it at?
"current limiting jumpers?"
Not familiar with those. Are you talking about cutting off some of the shunt leads? If so, have you considered the cycleanalyst throttle mod instead?
-JD