BMS Battery Alloy Shell Charger Problems

if you use two power supplies in series you have to use fechter's meanwell current limiting mod to prevent the power supply from trying to push to much current into the battery and when the current in the power supply goes too high it goes into a current limiting mode where it turns on and off rapidly.

but if you use a charger in series with the power supply the charger has a current limiting function built in that the power supplies do not so the current does not go high enuff to make the power supply go into hiccup mode.
 
thx for your answer dnmun. so CC limiting on the standard meanwells is not suitable to charge a battery. i always thought they will work. its a pity.. :(

the meanwell LED power supply do have a CC limiting circuit like a charger. they will work well - except of the thing with cut off.
i think i will go with two of these: http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-320h/default.htm and add a timer switch to the input.
or is there some kind of electronics available to add on the output where i can set charge cut off voltage?
I think of set the charger to 91V instead of 90V and cut off at 1A. this will cause in about same soc but less charging time :) It will not (much) hurt the battery.
 
yep, alan has that thread on them. i would still use the EMC-1000 or even go with the 2000 watt model. still think you should try to do a deal with sacko but don't know about shipping for him to you over there. or buy one new again but leave off on the mods this time.

then you could fix yours.
 
do you mean this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42169
it seems like Alan stopped working on this boards..

i have this options now (max 300$):

1) buy an EMC charger again
2) buy two Meanwell LED 320W 48V supply, timer switch in the socket
3) buy any of two Meanwell 48V supply, add Richard Fechters limiter board, timer switch in the socket
4) buy one 48V meanwell, charge coil from adaptto and charge through the controller

for point 1-3: add a display without blowing the charger :)

the bad point about 4:
- have to built an extra box for the charging coil with caps
- the motor has to be connected to the controller (only charging on the bike possible)
- no "real" bulk charging, because controller has to be switched on

i think point 4 is great if a little supply is built directly to the bike to have the option to charge everywhere if i ran out of battery.
for home charging i do not like it very much..
 
if you have $300 then why not consider the 2000W charger from EMC? i think it is $249 but the shipping by air is what makes stuff so expensive from them. i am considering buying a 4kW charger and on alibaba all the places say they want me to buy 5 or more. duh. plus shipping. duh duh.

too bad the russians have not figured out how to make their railway network move stuff from china to europe.

it should only take 6 days from china to europe by rail and if they could just ship the parcels by rail it would be under 15 euro. instead it has to go by air and costs 70 euro or more.
rant rant.

can you do the voltage display on the outside of the charger using the high voltage led meters? do you have to adjust the voltage during charge so you wanna monitor it?

to me, the charging current is more important since i can then see when it is in balancing mode and how far along it is in balancing. you don't see that with a voltage display.

like i said earlier, i think the EMC-1000 is the best option, plus now you have one to use for spare parts, but i suspect you will repair it when you get your moxy back.

but chargers and power supplies are basically the same circuits, except the power supply doesn't usually have effective current limiting. but some do, i just don't follow which do.
 
Its not only about the expensive shipping, there are also customs duty to pay (i think it is about 20%).
If the quality would be better, i would buy an EMC again for sure, but my charger from BMS battery did not look like it was good quality. Many parts on the board look messy soldered and not put well in place. The board and the inner cooling ribs are only stuck with silicone glue to the case. this can be sure make better.

i like this charger: http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=9
this is original from kingpan with 2 years warranty. someone know if it has a built in PFC?

I have no hurry because izeman lent me one of his 900W chargers with a super nice display :) THX!
 
way cool, i see they have the 2000W charger for $320 also. i had forgotten EVasemble had the ecitypower chargers. but it costs more than it does form BMSbattery, so would depend on shipping costs. i bot two 1kW elcon chargers off ebay, one is broken and i am gonna try to fix it. but i might buy one or two of the 2kW chargers yet. maybe i can talk BMS battery into surface shipping. that is only 3 weeks to the west coast here. but i am in no rush either.
 
do you mean the 1,5kw elcon charger or do they also offer a 1kW? i only see the 1,5kw one at evassemble store and it has pretty nice functions and performance (efficient, pfc, led indicator), but it is big and heavy.
somewhere i read that shipping from evassemble is more favorable than from bms battery - have to check it out.
i still think about why bms battery do not offer warranty for their chargers. maybe they did not pass the kingpan quality check?
 
Madin88,

What did you end up doing for the charger situation? I'm interested to know.

I currently bulk charge using EMC-1000s, but would like to know about using Mean wells to occasionally charge on the road. (I will never bring my EMC-1000 on the road as I feel that is a death sentence for them)

I was reading somewhere and happened upon these for $13:

Meanwell CLG-150-36A

It says it has CC/CV... but does that mean I still need to have a current limiter board like Fechters? I thought I saw that someone here was using them to directly bulk charge. Maybe I'm wrong?
 
cal3thousand said:
Madin88,

What did you end up doing for the charger situation? I'm interested to know.
Click to expand...

izeman has lent me one of his EMC-900 chargers with super nice display until i have a own one again.
I have ordered the kingpan KP-C 1200W from evassemble about 10 days ago: http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=9
Im not very happy with this shop. still not have got a delivery confirmation (maybe set the charger to my required 91V does take that much time). the email response is very slow.
including shipping it costs me about 300$ (220€). I hope it will pass the customs so i have not to pay additional 20% duty costs.

I decided to go this way because the meanwells do not cut off at the end of charge. this means they will hold the battery forever to the set voltage.
the kingpan does have a relais and they will break the connection automatically.

As i could see, the Meanwell CLG-150 from your link also does have a constant current limiting function (like the popular Meanwell HLG series) so i think it should work well without Fechters limiter board :wink:
You can connect them in series and set the volts to your needs. If you do so, you have to add some diodes in the circuit to protect the power supplies from too much volts.
For example: you have 60V battery and two supplies set to each 30V. If one supply sees the 60V it will blow up.

izeman, do you think you can repair my EMC-1000 or do you have the parts for the repair?
sorry for the broken screw left in the case. in future i will throw them away and cut some M3 threds in there like you always do :)
 
Perfect feedback. Thank you very much.

I will explore those CLGs but I still wonder why it is about 15% the price of other ones in that line?

I see that they are about $100 for other models. Weird.

I would like to have a 36V paired with a 48V to handle 18S.
 
i think the EMC-1000 would be a good choice for a travel charger. it would survive better than the smaller lighter ones i would expect.

the Modiary chargers i am working on now have some kinda feedback control from the output section that i think has turned off the charger at the TL494 .

so studied the pdf from texas instruments for a while and finally am getting an idea of how the IC works and what the feedback pin is doing and how the dead time control works.

this charger is too smart for it's own good. i don't see anything wrong with but it refuses to oscillate. before i give up i might cut the entire feedback daughter board off and see if it will run after that.

plus to add to all the hassle i have, the inverter or back light, either one or maybe both, went out on my regular laptop so i ordered another set from hong kong so i can get my laptop lit up again. this old toshiba is so slow. getting the back light out was a task too.
 
@ dnmun

you are an expert, do you know if the KP-C charger from the link above does have a power factor correction?
they only write: "Power efficiency:≥92%、High energy-efficient"
maybe this "high energy efficient" means it has one?
i have asked evassemble per mail but still no answer..

my blown charger was the EMC-1000 and the one from izeman is the EMC-900. The EMC-1000 has bigger capacitors at primary side. Aside from this they looked very similar to me...

Someone should make a charger electronic with display (for CC limiting and cut off when fully charged). With this we could convert every power supply to a charger :)
 
i don't know how power factor correction works. 93% is pretty high imo.

most people have a voltmeter on the output of the battery so they can see what voltage the charger is at while it is charging. i prefer to see what the balancing current is so i have better idea of how close to balanced the cells are.

5% of CC is standard for lifepo4.
 
dnmun said:
...i prefer to see what the balancing current is so i have better idea of how close to balanced the cells are...
Click to expand...
that's a nice idea, but how do you do that? you're talking about total current output of the charger, or are you talking about balancing/bleeding current?
 
it would be current measurement. you have to have a large enuff ammeter shunt to be able to use it for the full current output of the charger but be able to see 100mA at the end. some meters have both the amps and volts doing the flipflop.

just discovered my watt meter only goes up to 65Ah and the starts over at 0Ah again. on my way to 79Ah out of my new 24S ping pack.
 
i take the wattmeter voltage from the middle of the pack. top of 12S.

i think i am gonna solder the watt meter shunt resistor from the dead turnigy wattmeter onto the B- spot on the BMS and then run the B- lead from the battery to the other side of the shunt and take two wires off of each side of the shunt and carry them out to the little cheapo $13 units that i can rebuild by removing the shunt from it and then using either a dpdt switch or just a reversing 2 pin plug so i can measure either the discharge current or the charging current by reversing the leads up to the wattmeter.

the cheapo $13 models have a trimpot inside so i can then adjust the meter to match the shunt resistor as it is installed.
 
dnmun said:
i think the EMC-1000 would be a good choice for a travel charger. it would survive better than the smaller lighter ones i would expect.

......
Click to expand...
I'm not doubting your thought, but Why? Surely it is a build qualty issue rather than controller size? Are bigger chargers built in a different factory (which has higher build standards) to the other sizes? Shouldn't smaller components should suffer from less inertia when the charger is bounced around so have less effect?
 
i think the bigger chargers starting at EMC-900 or EMC-1000 do have better components which are more durable (regulators or transistor i dont know for sure)
the EMC-600 is known to fail soon..

for travelling the EMC-1000 would not be and option for me. its much to big and heavy..
better use the Meanwell HLG LED power supplies (for higher voltage connect them in series). they are light, waterproof, high efficient etc. Much better travel charger imho.
the cut off is no problem i think when travelling. you will anyway disconnect the charger as soon as the battery is charged.. :wink:
 
the design makes the pcb more rigid and less chance of flexing and breaking the traces to the transformer.

the smaller ones have the transformer out in the middle of a big area so when it hits the ground the shock has a better chance of tearing the transformer off the pcb.

it all depends on how you drop it and whether you can get your foot underneath it before it hits the ground.
 
dnmun said:
i don't know how power factor correction works. 93% is pretty high imo.
Click to expand...

without PFC, the supply draws very high peak amps from the socket (the current does not have a sinewave form like the voltage has). this can cause to high current flow over the neutral wire, disturbing other electrical devices, etc.
doctorbass mentioned in his 2kW bms battery charger thread that this charger didn't had this function. thats why i ask.
every power supply or other similar things must have this in european countries.
 
madin88 said:
i think the bigger chargers starting at EMC-900 or EMC-1000 do have better components which are more durable (regulators or transistor i dont know for sure)
the EMC-600 is known to fail soon..

for travelling the EMC-1000 would not be and option for me. its much to big and heavy..
better use the Meanwell HLG LED power supplies (for higher voltage connect them in series). they are light, waterproof, high efficient etc. Much better travel charger imho.
the cut off is no problem i think when travelling. you will anyway disconnect the charger as soon as the battery is charged.. :wink:
Click to expand...


Those are my thoughts too. EMC-1000 seems quite robust, but it is too large.

End of cycle while "on the road" will be handled by me, so a display or current would be nice
 
the use of the IGBTs for the switching transistors makes the 1000 more reliable imo too. but on the road nobody waits for the balancing anyway imo. just charge as long as time permits and go.
 
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