Bosch 36V fatpacks opened up

[John in CR]

No, you don't need to worry about that 3rd connection, the center slot on the electronics board of the packs. That is for using the Bosch charger, and mostly likely for the pack on/off and LVC switching when used with the the power tools. For charging with non-Bosch chargers and for power mains you only need to use the 2 primary wires of the pack, which are + & - directly to the cell string.

John

 

[pwbset]

1. When I put on the power poles, and connected to my battery, they didn't fit. They were upside down. So, I took off the andersons, and reversed the color coding on the caps. I still have the positive connected to the positive just with mismatched colors. Is that right by the way? To connect positive on the battery to positive on the charger? Or should it be reversed?

Heh, heh... if you've never worked with andersons before you'll quickly see that you can just "turn them over" and reconnect them and they will fit the battery connection just fine. They are kinda weird that way at first. No need to cut them off or re-do them etc. etc. I would never, ever have mis-matched colors because I'm way to forgetful/stupid to try to remember something like that and would end up blowing everything up.

2. The charger won't charged. It just sits there with the green light on. Is it possible, it won't charge because the batteries are full? I have only run the bike a few feet to make sure it worked. The batteries are pretty full, just not totatlly full.

What did Jack say he set your ecity charger to voltage-wise? I'm finding that if I'm within a volt or so mine won't come on so it is very likely that you'll need to discharge the batt more to get the charger to fire up. If that doesn't work you probably damaged something when it fell.

 

[stiffi]

Thanks guys.

I'm glad to see I'm not a total idiot. I was on the right track, hoping the batteries need to be drained a little for charger to kick in.

As for damage. I was a little unclear. I didn't drop the whole charger, just the leads, which inadvertantly touched for 1/2 of a second.

According to Ecity the charger should be set to 41 volts.

I'll run the bike a little tonight and see what happens. Wish me luck!

 

[stiffi]

Well, pwbset was right. I ran the bike 2 miles, then came back and put them on the charger and voila! The charger kicked in. I didn't watch it the whole time, but the red light came on. After I came back in 3 hours the green light was one.

Two things interest me.

1. The charger was silent when I started, and again when I came back. Is that normal? I was expecting some sort of fan like my SLA charger.
2. The charge indicators on each Fatpack stll seem to work. Will those still be pretty reliable to check the charge of each pack?

Thanks again for your help. I feel like I really accomplished something getting this pack together. Plus the bike feels great. I forget who said I'd really miss the 48V I had with my SLA setup. I can definitely notice it. Maybe at some point, I'll series a pack together to up the voltage, now that I feel like I can handle the wiring. For now, though, the bike will pull my fat butt 17 mph with no pedaling on the flats, and that's just 3 mph less than my old setup. Hills may be a challenge, we'll see.

 

[TPA]

Hooray!

The batteries may not have charged long enough to build up enough heat in the charger to trip the fan. When you do a full discharge and recharge you might see a fan running, depending on the size of the charger and the capacity of the battery.

 

[stiffi]

I took the bike out for a long ride, and I was very impressed!

I went 10 miles, on my own personal torture test. I went on some flats, and was able to get to 17 MPH unassisted. I then went up a pretty grueling hill. In past years, I have taken an Ego 2 scooter up this hill, and it cutout and couldn't make it. I had a Tidalforce M750 that would take the hill at 15 MPH unassisted. My original GoHub setup with SLA at 48 volts would go about 13 MPH with heavy pedaling.

This FatPack setup went 11 MPH with moderate pedaling.

On another hill I frequently take on my commute, I was able to get up to 13 MPH with light pedalling.

When I got back, the indicators on each Fatpack still had 2 LEDs! I suspect I could go 20 miles easily with this 4 pack setup. My commute is only 11 miles, however. Needless to say I'm very happy. The best part, is I can carry my trunk with the pack and charger in it to work, and it only weighs about 8 lbs. My old SLA pack was close to 20!

 

[John in CR]

Stiffi,

Glad you got up and running. Don't rely on just those LEDs without knowing the voltage they indicate, so bring your voltmeter and measure them often until you get comfortable with exactly what the led indicators mean. While the halfway point in terms of amp hours may be 37V, the watt hour halfway point is a bit higher, and voltage sags a lot at the bottom so the LVC on your controller kicks in easier. I treat 38V as my half a tank point and I rarely go below 35V at rest. Long live my unstressed Konions!

John

 

[stiffi]

Stiffi,

Glad you got up and running. Don't rely on just those LEDs without knowing the voltage they indicate, so bring your voltmeter and measure them often until you get comfortable with exactly what the led indicators mean. While the halfway point in terms of amp hours may be 37V, the watt hour halfway point is a bit higher, and voltage sags a lot at the bottom so the LVC on your controller kicks in easier. I treat 38V as my half a tank point and I rarely go below 35V at rest. Long live my unstressed Konions!

John

Good to know. I taped my connections down so tight, I don't know if i could get the voltmeter in there! My main concern really was getting 11 miles out of the pack, because that's my commute to work. I can charge in the office. Now that I know I can go that far, that's all I need. I may push it another 2 miles, on round trips around the neighborhood, but that's all I ever do. There's only so far I'm willing to drive going 17 MPH For the rest, I jump in my Civic hybrid, and only feel a little more guilty.

 

[John in CR]

There's only so far I'm willing to drive going 17 MPH For the rest, I jump in my Civic hybrid, and only feel a little more guilty.

Time to all but eliminate use of the gasser. Get 4 more fatpacks and go to 72V, and then you'll increase your speed and range. Once you're e-bike is zippy, then you'll want to use it more. My van stays parked unless it's raining or the load is too great. I use it so seldom that every week or so I need to start it just to be sure the battery stays in shape. You have to consider that we have a family of 5 and I take the kids to school and do most of the food shopping too, all via e-bike.

John

 

[RoughRider]

are the bosch batteries in europe different to the fatpacks in the usa?

why are the european batteries @ 2,6Ah??

look here:

bosch_european_battery

do you think, that bosch is useing different cells for the europeans packs?

 

[docnjoj]

No, you don't need to worry about that 3rd connection, the center slot on the electronics board of the packs. That is for using the Bosch charger, and mostly likely for the pack on/off and LVC switching when used with the the power tools. For charging with non-Bosch chargers and for power mains you only need to use the 2 primary wires of the pack, which are + & - directly to the cell string.

John

Hey folks. I just went and got 4 Bosch packs and a charger from Ebay. I'm prolly gunna keep the case intact and use the 4 packs in // like Stiffi did. Here is the question:
Is there a way of using that 3rd connection for LVC in these packs. I have an older Knuckles/Infineon 48V 30 amp controller, which obviously has the LVC set for a 48 V battery (maybe 41.5 volts) and I know these Bosch ones need about 31.5. I will research the thread regarding the resistor change and do that if I need to, but I was wondering if one could use the V cutoff from Bosch? thanks in advance.
otherDoc

 

[icecube57]

I thought there wasnt a bms or lvc installed on the pack. I thought it was just a glorified light board charge indicator. I discharge mine to 28-29v under load with a resting voltage of about 31.5 with my CA doing the LVC work.

The packs are alot easier to deal with if you remove the plastic and do a little dremel action to make them stack. I solder bus bars on mine. Put neoprene foam on the cell ends.I bound mine together with Alabama Chrome and squeezed mine into my trunk bag. 6 stack neatly in one flat row in my bag. They are arranged in the bag for easy 84v hook up. I created a special harness to parallel the pack during charging. I created another harness to do parallel discharging. I have a 3A charger that charges to 42v.

I even installed a 42v tap/ 3rd hot wire. I was originally using it to power controller but after that was a toasty experience it is a great way to add accessories.

 

[docnjoj]

Wow IC57 thats a lot of work! I want to try to keep them intact for the warranty at least until I know they work. I just want to run at 36 volts so I can stay alive longer! Don't have the need for speed at my age! I believe that the tools must have an LVC so you dont destroy the cells and it can connect in fairly easily. Otherwise I'll just use the correct LVC in my controller. Thanks for the tip on the packing them into a small space. Oh that's Georgia Chrome where I come from!
otherDoc

 

[icecube57]

Kinda make me wonder if there is an lvc for these packs. If they have a 60A fuse built in. At 60A im sure the sag on the 1 pack would be unacceptable and would trip the pack if it did have an lvc in place.

 

[John in CR]

Icecube,

Of course they have to have an LVC either built into the tool, or more likely built into that electronics board that signals the tool to turn off. Otherwise using a tool till the pack is dead would kill the pack right off the bat. The same shutoff is also triggered by the temp sensor, which will also prevent the charger from charging an already hot pack.


Doc,

I don't have any intact packs anymore to check, but if you're lucky that center slot provides a positive and at pack voltage, which turns off at the LVC. That would be almost too good to be true, but is possible. I vaguely remember that slot being +. If so, then all you'd have to do is connect the controller's power on switch wire (orange wire if I recall) via that center slot to achieve a fully functional LVC.

BTW, if you're running a controller with a 41V LVC, how are you going to run at 36V?

John

 

[pwbset]

Kinda make me wonder if there is an lvc for these packs. If they have a 60A fuse built in. At 60A im sure the sag on the 1 pack would be unacceptable and would trip the pack if it did have an lvc in place.

I was running a single fatpack with a 504 motor for a few weeks and never even got close to the 60A fuse limit. I could and did slurp 1,000+ watts sustained out of the single pack, but that's mid 20s volt sag under that kinda load. Uber-impressive for a single pack sure, but not likely to last long cycle-wise.

I guess my point is that the 60A fuse must be for toolpack binding situations where you're like using a circular saw full throttle and hit a piece of metal or something.. otherwise you'll never hit that 60A even from a dead stall steep hill throttle situation... believe me I've tried.

 

[docnjoj]

Hey John in CR. Thanks for the possible cut -off tip. I just spent a few hours reading the Infineon stuff and seems to need just a couple of resistor changes to the board. If I am lucky, Keywin/Knuckles left the 30 volt cut off resistor in place since I really didn't need a higher voltage cut off from the Ping 48 volt. The BMS would and has done it! Only once did I, um.... forget to plug in the charger and rode about 30 miles over 3 days! The bike suddenly stopped dead about 3 miles from home on the 3rd day and I had the joy of pedaling home without power! Nofun, but the point is I think that was the LVC from the Ping, not the controller. I gotta take the controller apart to look! I have a Whattmeter to keep an eye on amp/hours used.
otherDoc

 

[John in CR]

Hey John in CR. Thanks for the possible cut -off tip. I just spent a few hours reading the Infineon stuff and seems to need just a couple of resistor changes to the board. If I am lucky, Keywin/Knuckles left the 30 volt cut off resistor in place since I really didn't need a higher voltage cut off from the Ping 48 volt. The BMS would and has done it! Only once did I, um.... forget to plug in the charger and rode about 30 miles over 3 days! The bike suddenly stopped dead about 3 miles from home on the 3rd day and I had the joy of pedaling home without power! Nofun, but the point is I think that was the LVC from the Ping, not the controller. I gotta take the controller apart to look! I have a Whattmeter to keep an eye on amp/hours used.
otherDoc

Not having an LVC isn't that big a deal with Konions, because when the pack get low it is quite obvious due to the much greater voltage sag. As soon as it starts slowing down noticeably, you better be very close to your destination or prepared to pedal.

John

 

[docnjoj]

That's almost like my old Nicads or Nimh, John! Kewl!
otherDoc

 

[RoughRider]

i ordered some bosch-pack from MAXTOOLS...

it was delivered to germany ... everything was fine...

after i checked all of them...by bushing the button for the LEDs...i had 3x bad packs...

when i push the button NO one of the 3 LEDs are burning...

i checked the voltage with my multimeter and the voltage is 0,0V

well i opened one pack to see, if something is wrong with the fuse...but fuse is OK...

so i checked the voltage directly at the cells...0,0V

now i would like to check every cell...how can i get them out of the red plastic housing?


i send MAXTOOLS a email and they told me to send back the bad packs, but i would have to pay the shipping...

 

[docnjoj]

Did you try to charge them first. I realize this is a long shot. Mine were 35.5 to 35.7 when I first opend the packs. They charged up to 40.8 and leveled off at 40.7 the next day. It would be worth a shot at sticking them on the charger.
otherDoc

 

[RoughRider]

the charger is not charging it...

 

[John in CR]

i ordered some bosch-pack from MAXTOOLS...
it was delivered to germany ... everything was fine...
after i checked all of them...by bushing the button for the LEDs...i had 3x bad packs...
when i push the button NO one of the 3 LEDs are burning...
i checked the voltage with my multimeter and the voltage is 0,0V
well i opened one pack to see, if something is wrong with the fuse...but fuse is OK...
so i checked the voltage directly at the cells...0,0V
now i would like to check every cell...how can i get them out of the red plastic housing?
i send MAXTOOLS a email and they told me to send back the bad packs, but i would have to pay the shipping...

If they are 0v at the 2 slots (not the center one), they are dead. It's not like nicad that are fine at 0v. Even if you got them to charge, the cells would be severely damaged. Just send them back. Sorry for your misfortune.

I just installed my pack of 100% fatpacks, 10 packs in total, 5p2s (on a cell basis 10p20s). I used the bottom half of the red holder on each to give the cells good support and structure, which resulted in an overall pack 28x22x9cm. I left it so I can easily separate the two 5p sections, so I can reconfigure them to fit a different shape (56 x 11 x 9cm, or 14x22x18cm , etc).

I tried running my lighter bike with 2p2s fatpacks, but my motors are pretty demanding and the pack ran warm, so my needs require at least 3p2s fatpacks.

John

 

[lcyclist]

i ordered some bosch-pack from MAXTOOLS...

it was delivered to germany ... everything was fine...

after i checked all of them...by bushing the button for the LEDs...i had 3x bad packs...

when i push the button NO one of the 3 LEDs are burning...

i checked the voltage with my multimeter and the voltage is 0,0V

well i opened one pack to see, if something is wrong with the fuse...but fuse is OK...

so i checked the voltage directly at the cells...0,0V

now i would like to check every cell...how can i get them out of the red plastic housing?


i send MAXTOOLS a email and they told me to send back the bad packs, but i would have to pay the shipping...

Sorry about your fatpacks. I had 1 pack that showed the same 0V as yours. Please see my post on page 14 how I cured it.

The re-surrected pack is now being used on my drill. I am doing this as an experiment to see how the re-surrected pack behaves; so far, I see no problems. The pack holds charge fine.

My recommendation is that you send you packs back for warranty.

 

[Rifle]

In a rush I shorted one of my fatpacks. Works fine, but it melted the connection so I can't charge it on the Bosch charger. Anyone know a way I could still use the Bosch charger?