Bottom Bracket Maintenance - Help Please

Eclectic said:
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This is a 25-30 y/o MTB from CL.
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My guess is that the only problem is the old grease is dried up. Disassemble, clean, inspect, grease, resemble, adjust, done. Everything fits.

Agree that new crank bearings might be better but a entire new bike would also be better. Better for the environment to fix old stuff and not manufacture new stuff.
 
marty said:
Eclectic said:
X
This is a 25-30 y/o MTB from CL.
X
My guess is that the only problem is the old grease is dried up. Disassemble, clean, inspect, grease, resemble, adjust, done. Everything fits.

Agree that new crank bearings might be better but a entire new bike would also be better. Better for the environment to fix old stuff and not manufacture new stuff.

I agree as well. I would say though that while it's apart it would be a good idea to find out what spindle is inside for future reference. Also, that if any part is cracked or pitted I would swap the whole thing out for a cartridge. Currently available cups and spindles are of very poor quality compared to what you could get 30 years ago which makes upkeep a bandaid solution with little or no cost savings. Of course, if you could find some good condition old BB parts you would be in great shape.
 
If you're just going to replace the bearings, get these. They work a lot better than the 9 ball bearings.
http://maddogcycles.com/product/sunlite-bearing-bb-375-11x1-4-3pc-16742.htm?gclid=COqpl6W1iMcCFQEcaQodyKAFPQ
Niagara cycles used to sell these for $1.80 each but the price is now $11.39. Crazy. You can buy loose 1/4" balls for a few pennies each. That's what I'll do next time. The grease will hold them in place until you assemble the BB. Or just get a cartridge as others suggested. I would not use the 9 ball cages ever even though they are still cheap.
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/1-4-9-ball-sugino-tange-retainer
 
wesnewell said:
If you're just going to replace the bearings, get these. They work a lot better than the 9 ball bearings.
http://maddogcycles.com/product/sunlite-bearing-bb-375-11x1-4-3pc-16742.htm?gclid=COqpl6W1iMcCFQEcaQodyKAFPQ
Niagara cycles used to sell these for $1.80 each but the price is now $11.39. Crazy. You can buy loose 1/4" balls for a few pennies each. That's what I'll do next time. The grease will hold them in place until you assemble the BB. Or just get a cartridge as others suggested. I would not use the 9 ball cages ever even though they are still cheap.
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/1-4-9-ball-sugino-tange-retainer
The sunlite reference page is:
http://www.jb-importers.com/web/searchResultb063.html?CatOne=BEARINGS&CatTwo=BOTTOM+BRACKET&Cat1Id_Sub=RETAINER&rhgfdT35dh=3
(note that the 'more info' link is broken)

Wallyword has them for $21.00 (free shipping)
BikeWagon's price is $21 as well.
Amazon has them for $17.50 (free shipping)
NewEgg's price is $17.50 as well.
Amazon has them for $22.00 (free shipping)

$1.98 plus $10 for shipping from Maddog ... but that appears to be the best price (although they are currently short on stock).
Or EBAY for $6.00 with shipping --- search for "Tange 375 Bb Retainer"
... and remember that you need two of them. So that is a minimum of $3.00 per extra ball.

By the way you can get 1/4 inch diameter "Si3N4 Grade 5 Ceramic Ball Bearing" in groups of 10 for $7.00 on Ebay ( including shipping via a slow boat from China). I make the ID of a cup to be 1.18 inches in diameter --- so I think that one might be able to fit 12 balls in each cup. They are lighter, stronger and smoother but they run in the same cups (which are rough by comparison) and thick grease.

Considering the millions of vintage bicycles that have run BB's with nine 1/4 inch caged steel ball bearing for over a quarter of a century the rules of diminishing returns may be applicable.

IMO (everyone has one and most of them stink):
I agree with the previous posters that in most (9/10 cases) all that is needed is to clean and repack the bearings. In my particular case the spindle seems to be a bit of an oddball thus I want to retain it. I want to replace the cups because they have been beat up over the years and I like the idea of having the rubber seals between the cups and the spindle to keep out moisture and other crap. The new bearing are a freebie that comes with the cups (and I disagree with the concept the old ones are probably better quality). Once the BB is assembled again it will probably not need to be serviced again in my lifetime.

Having said all that I might order the ceramic ball bearing just to see if I can fit 12 of them in there. It ain't likely :cry:AintLikely3.png
 
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just get a cartridge BB. found a great deal on an FSA Ultimax Carbon w/ hollow Ti spindle. with forged sugino cranks the setup is lighter than shimano hollowtech2. i believe i paid just a bit more than you would for a low-end bb-un26
 
That is such a cheep problem to fix by your local bike shop , it is not even worth messing with the old one, as mentioned in an earlier post, by a mechanic in Austin, the Fix is so cheep for them to do at your local bike shop.
The only reason I change my Bottom Brackets, is that I bought the tools many years ago.
Even so I have only done it about 3 times in 25+ years. Most often Selling any bike I have long before the BB needs Replacing.
By having your LBS ( Local Bike Shop ) order the right BB, you will save $ by not buying the wrong size one over the net, and , you should buy the better Shimano BB-UN55, for just about $ 10 more than the BB-UN26, It will last you thousands of miles. If I am not mistaken the BB-UN26 has a plastic Adaptor where as the BB-UN55 has an Aluminum Adaptor, At least that is the way it used to be. Just get the UN55 and you will be happy for a number of years.
 
In order to better illustrate perspective - those who ride in relatively dry, moderate climates may never, ever need BB servicing. However, those of us who ride year round in harsh NE weather can suffer BB failure in just a few weeks.

As I said before, salty slush can take out inadequately sealed bearings in a heartbeat.

OMT - many more bike shops refuse to work on eBikes than will work on them.
 
Sorry. It’s been a while. Serial family emergencies have limited my free time. Here is what I ended up doing.

First, the crank puller tool is kinda’ a must have tool. $2-$3 from China on eBay. It might be worth ordering one to have around if you plan on doing your own bicycle maintenance. I wasn’t worried about the quality since I figure I will only use it a few times and what I got was good enough.

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These are the tools I ended up using. I also used an 8” adjustable wrench in an unorthodox manner (see below). The crank puller tool was used to pop the crank off of the spindle (axle). The 18” (400mm) adjustable wrench was used to remove the adjustable cup (on the non-chain side) from the bottom bracket. I used the tongue-and-groove pliers (water pump pliers, adjustable pliers, groove-joint pliers, arc-joint pliers, Multi-Grips, tap or pipe spanners, gland pliers and Channellocks) for the lockring.

The first thing I did was put a pad under the bike while I was opening up the BB. That way if loose ball bearings fell out while I was taking it apart, they would be easier to find.

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Unscrewing the cosmetic cover from the end of the crank exposed a (somewhat standard) nut on the end of the spindle. That nut was removed using a standard socket (afterwards I noticed there was a socket on the end of the crank puller tool should have worked). After the nut is removed, the crank puller is used to press the crank off the spindle.

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The lockring came off easily using the tongue-and-groove pliers. The next part was the most difficult. The cup did not want to move. I could not find anything else that would fit so I borrowed a very large adjustable wrench. I was having a hard time keeping the wrench jaws in contact while applying enough force to get it to unscrew. I finally came up with the idea of bolting the wrench on to the cup so that I could then devote all of my efforts to breaking it loose, not just keeping the wrench in contact. I used the hole in the end of an 8” wrench as an oversized washer and bolted it on the end of the spindle using the crank nut. This worked really well.

20150809_165312.jpg

Once I had it open, it was obvious that this was a pretty standard 68mm BB that had been neglected for 25-30 years. Dry, rusting and falling apart.

20150809_165745.jpg
Sorry…no more pictures, hands too greasy.

The next problem presented itself. It was Sunday night at 4:55pm. All the LBSs close at 5:00pm on Sundays and this is my daily commuter so I needed it for Monday morning. I was able to find a big chain sporting goods store that does some bike repairs but they were very limited in parts they stock. They were able to find 2 replacement bearings (9 ball cages) in a forgotten drawer at $0.99 each.

Put in the new bearings, greased everything up, put it back together and adjusted it.
I was hoping to improve upon the original equipment but timing got in the way of that. Oh well. At least now when I press hard on the pedals, everything feels solid and there is no more crunching and squeaking.
Thanks for the help and education. There was plenty of info on the internet on doing this maintenance but they all seemed to assume you knew what BB you were going to work on and that you had the proper tools.
 
Eclectic said:
I used the hole in the end of an 8” wrench as an oversized washer and bolted it on the end of the spindle using the crank nut. This worked really well.
Necessity is the mother of invention. 8)
 
There's a fair chance that you'll have to do it again in the not too distant future. Every time I replaced the bearings, they didn't last very long for whatever reason. If it fails again, do what was suggested and replace it with a cartridge BB.
 
One more little pile-on - when used in dry conditions (OP's in So CA) clean, greased caged BB bearings will last a very long time.

Wet and especially salted slush winter conditions, they can be junk in a week or two.
 
I just don't know why anyone would bother with a loose ball BB anymore, unless they're rebuilding one that's in perfect condition. Sealed cartridge units are cheap, require no maintenance, last longer in the real world, and are much easier to install and exchange.
 
Chalo said:
I just don't know why anyone would bother with a loose ball BB anymore, ....
1) Oddball spindle length.
2) Restoration
:|
 
I was gonna start a thread but this came up in search.

Mine just started clicking. It's a sealed style, an extended size I shortened to 6.25" between cranks. The shortening of jis is possible but not something I wanna do again if I don't have to.

Anyway, a 4yo knocked the bike over on left side, and it must have landed on the pedal in up position. The bb shaft must have bent a little because the crank was rubbing my motor. I put both feet on the bike and both hands on adj wrenches for leverage on the crank and pulled. I got it bent out to where it felt pretty parallel in the pedal stroke again and didn't rub.

But now it CLICKS and it's driving me freakin crazy- doesn't even matter if you pedal hard or light. I just now took LH crank arm off, backed out 'cup' and retightened. Then installed a spare pedal. Still clicks like crazy with down pressure on either pedal.

What makes the sealed bb develop a creak/click? inner or outer race must have distorted on at least one side, but I still can't follow the logic as to why that then makes this ridiculous noise instead of simply binding or producing heat. I guess it's ruined?
 
Usually that's a cracked bearing race or chipped ball, etc. You'd have to repalce the bearing in question to fix it, if it's a sealed selfcontained bearing/race/etc. Sometiems they're real hard to get off the crankshaft and it's easiertr to replace the whole unit. :/
 
Thanks for the link AW! I didn't find much theoretical or otherwise on that clicking that wasn't basic/common knowledge. But, I'm wondering if I missed what I ended up finding out below.

So I pulled the old one. The bearings were surprisingly both a little worn, but not too sticky, crunchy, or loose. Not great either tho esp for one year and supposing to be sealed. Hey, whatdya want for a 20$ extended jis bb that sees all kinda mud and water?!

Anyway get this, I modded/shortened the spare to a better fit than the first one, and installed. Smooth as silk till I was tightening the loose cap/cup. The bb socket just picks up the end of shaft, so that spins as you tighten. The last torque I put to it I heard 'click', 'click' -it was that distinct sound. The shaft was tight and the bearings had been overloaded. Backed it off a bit and it was smooth again. Test drove and it feels great and pedals perfectly parallel again, with no infernal clicking either.

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I think the old one simply could have been pulled, cleaned and reinstalled with a little less torque on the end cup. . . . Might try someday, just 2 kno 4 sure. But happy accidents regardless, because this new one came out with a much nicer fit to the cranks' diamonds, and it's not bent, yet :lol:
 
nutspecial said:
..... it's not bent, yet
So I am sitting here with an antique Mitaya BB shaft thinking 'how the heck could one ever bend this thing'? :roll:
 
BB spindles (the old kind, and all square tapers) are hardened to the point that they snap rather than bend. I can't remember ever having seen a bent one, though I've seen many broken ones, and broken a couple myself.
 
It was def bent. If bearings are not destroyed and everything is tight but your pedals aren't on the same plane anymore then you either have bent pedals, cranks, or spindle.

The bike fell over on the left pedal at 'TDC'.

The pedals weren't parallel anymore. (and LH was rubbing motor @ 2 o'clock)

I used leverage and pulled out on the end of crank arm until it seemed truer.

Felt straighter but clicking started, which seemed to get worse after backing off LH cup and retightening.

Replaced bb but kept same pedals and crank arms. Fixed.

So either I was able to bend a crank arm :!: by hand, or this extended length spindle bb of got bent!

It's this one, about 40% down the page - 6" sealed, cut down to 6.25 inside crank to crank.
http://custommotoredbicycles.com/wide_bicycle_pedal_crank_sets_for_clearing_4_stroke_motors68mm_bottom_bracket

:D That clicking was insane tho, more correctly I would be if unable to fix haha :twisted:
 
Sorry I couldn't help.
nutspecial said:
Smooth as silk till I was tightening the loose cap/cup. The bb socket just picks up the end of shaft, so that spins as you tighten. The last torque I put to it I heard 'click', 'click' -it was that distinct sound. The shaft was tight and the bearings had been overloaded. Backed it off a bit and it was smooth again.
Iv'e never seen that with good sealed bearings, except when they've been damaged permanently. :/ I wonder what could be happening inside to do that?

With cup-and-cone types, I've seen that plenty, though.
 
All I know for sure is there's a innner shoulder for one bearing. Not sure about the other, and there is a spacer thing floating in there so either the bearing itself was deforming and loading into the spacer (which makes most sense because of how it sprung back to normal), or I guess maybe there's no 2nd shoulder allowing cap/cup to press outer bearing races hard into the spacer tube thing?

The UN BB I have isn't constructed that way iirc but beggars can't be choosers when wanting a specific pedal tread to clear drivetrain.
 
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