Brake track split. Now what?

[MarkJohnston]

Hey guys my rim blew out today. It was very hot and I was coming down several hills braking hard. My tires are too wide for rims i.e. It was nearly impossible to mount them. Maybe that adds extra strain on the rims. And the heat may have increases.my tire pressure above the max which is what they were at. Anyhow I am in a bad spot now because I rely on this as my only means of transportation. Which means I only have two days off to re build the wheel.

Do any of you guys know a down and dirty rebuild that will get my wheel true (enough). I have a wider rim that accepts the tire much more easily however the braking surface looks shot and there is rust on it and in the spoke holes seems like. Maybe not a good idea.

Let me know and time is of the essence here

I have limited tools, only a spoke tool, and no truing stand. Can I just simple copy the spoke pattern and just tighten up all spokes pretty much to the same pressure and call it good?

Oh yeah I don't trust bike shops. They are monkeys with wrenches and a lot of them won't work on ebikes.i refuse to go to them.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Yeah the spokes unwind if you mess up

Spokes unscrew if you don't get them tight enough, if the rim isn't stiff enough for the load, or if the spokes are too thick.

Steel rims have much lower stiffness to weight ratio than double walled aluminum rims. If you're going to continue with that, you might need to glue the nipples in place to keep them from unscrewing. It won't help them carry load, but it might keep the wheel from self-disassembling.

Ok. I need a 36 h rim then. All my spokes are still good. I want an ultra heavy duty 559 x 21 rim. Need to be ready to take heat, weight, and punishment. Obviously riding around with so much weight and so fast takes a specialized heavy duty rim which a heavy duty rim braking surface

 

[Chalo]

Weinmann DM30 might be able to use the same length spokes. But from what I can tell, there's nothing about the rest of that wheel that's worth keeping.

 

[Comrade]

I would invest in a tension meter. Doesn't need to be an expensive one, just know how to use it.....

What's inexpensive? Under $100 or $20 that Park Tool knockoffs go for?

 

[AHicks]

Knock off works just fine here, especially considering how often I use it....

 

[Comrade]

Knock off works just fine here, especially considering how often I use it....

I bought a knockoff thinking that I'd want to calibrate a measuring tool even if I bought a higher dollar one. It was a good idea. The Park Tool knockoff was reading 40% too low with the factory calibration, which I highly doubt even happened. :lol:

 

[MarkJohnston]

Knock off works just fine here, especially considering how often I use it....

I bought a knockoff thinking that I'd want to calibrate a measuring tool even if I bought a higher dollar one. It was a good idea. The Park Tool knockoff was reading 40% too low with the factory calibration, which I highly doubt even happened. :lol:

So don't do a knock off one? The tool is $90 from park. Are these tools even going to work on my specialty ebike spokes?

https://duckduckgo.com/y.js?ad_provider=bing&eddgt=eq6hFTHPkpIvIu7qVhveTw%3D%3D&rut=55c1b0fa281a7cd0d8b3b379517b891e2bbff55d2fcf00b72462ba8bdafd46db&u3=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Faclick%3Fld%3De8nPdFB%2DymfUpB6jw%2Df6biADVUCUx1sJLTRbX6z9Ajd9M2ELly65JC8iummriP63lDQ28uiUGfLI7y6QSOHq_OFufItoICas8jWSg9EPd1wbLvk4MF_Zb_R1RPljTq380FCRXEbtXj6GHdr6RuKJBCVdECUvVyKVJMXMutMYD%2DwDXKcw77%26u%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%26rlid%3D07d453b4f87a1fecb41b31136c72f683&vqd=3-185381304609171187334245922522155019771-149316805906956078240123435069859366760&iurl=%7B1%7DIG%3D5C6FED77EC34432EB77231C2AAFA8773%26CID%3D32F08C07AC12640E1BDC9DC5AD8E65A5%26ID%3DDevEx%2C5074.1

 

[RunForTheHills]

So don't do a knock off one? The tool is $90 from park. Are these tools even going to work on my specialty ebike spokes?

It is possible to build a wheel without a tension meter. I have the Park tool, but I can get it really close by plucking the spoke and listening to the pitch of the sound. If you hear a dull thump, it is not tight enough. You can definitely identify any spokes that are too loose using this method.

https://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm

 

[Chalo]

Spoke tensiometers weren't in common use when I built my first hundred or so wheels, so I developed a feel for the tension I was after. These days I don't even reach for the tensiometer until the wheel feels like it's more or less there. It's always pretty close by the time I take a measurement.

If you want to make it easy on yourself, you'll use a very stout rim that can tolerate loads of tension, and 14-15ga butted spokes that are a good balance of stretchiness and twist resistance. Use brass nipples only, and put a drop of oil on each spoke thread and nipple head before you do up the slack.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Spoke tensiometers weren't in common use when I built my first hundred or so wheels, so I developed a feel for the tension I was after. These days I don't even reach for the tensiometer until the wheel feels like it's more or less there. It's always pretty close by the time I take a measurement.

If you want to make it easy on yourself, you'll use a very stout rim that can tolerate loads of tension, and 14-15ga butted spokes that are a good balance of stretchiness and twist resistance. Use brass nipples only, and put a drop of oil on each spoke thread and nipple head before you do up the slack.

What about figuring tension solely from sound? What of adding some kind of thread-locker like linseed oil on threads before fully tightening?

 

[Chalo]

What about figuring tension solely from sound? What if adding some kind of thread locker like linseed oil on threads before fully tightening?

Sound is useful for making the tension more uniform, but pitch is not a very helpful tool for getting into the right tension range. It's subject to change with spoke length, spoke gauge, and the location along the length of the spoke where it crosses its neighbor.

Linseed oil is the mildest kind of threadlock, so it won't interfere too much with future maintenance. But any kind of threadlock takes away the wheel's only way to tell you it's not tight enough or stiff enough. Spokes won't loosen if they don't go slack, and if they do go slack, they can't support the rim when it's under highest load. So threadlock is a means of making an inadequate wheel a little more reliable, but not a means of making it adequate.

 

[MarkJohnston]

What about figuring tension solely from sound? What if adding some kind of thread locker like linseed oil on threads before fully tightening?

Linseed oil is the mildest kind of threadlock, so it won't interfere too much with future maintenance. But any kind of threadlock takes away the wheel's only way to tell you it's not tight enough or stiff enough. Spokes won't loosen if they don't go slack, and if they do go slack, they can't support the rim when it's under highest load. So threadlock is a means of making an inadequate wheel a little more reliable, but not a means of making it adequate.

I have the blue color lock tite. Ive been riding my bike 25 miles to work everyday. I can't take too many days off waiting for rim n stand to arrive. This is my only means of transportation....

I'm working off the crap chrome plated steel rim as we speak. I'm going to temporarily build a wheel until my parts come. I'm going to get the rust off with baking soda. Should I file down the rim to get more braking surface. Just a little bit of filing?

Hows this for a truing stand? I'm gonna try n bid on it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255574818292?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=G5CynbhASPC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=XkT10NRIQIe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=SMS

How's this for a rim?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195055834941?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=WLzFDkYISYK&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=XkT10NRIQIe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Chalo]

If you use the rim in that eBay listing, you'll need nipple washers because it's drilled for thick spokes. Get one with regular diameter holes; it's easier that way. Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304353896873

But as I said before, the other parts of that wheel are also super garbage. You should start over with a new wheel. Alloy rim, stainless spokes, decent quality alloy hub, professional prep.

 

[JackFlorey]

Let me know and time is of the essence here

Edited to -

Buy a new rim and new spokes and get a new wheel built. You may not be able to afford any more economy.

 

[MarkJohnston]

May as well buy a new hub motor. What do you mean it's garbage? Yes I know the steel rim is but the hub motor spokes are still in good condition.

I'm just going to have to try as a temporary solution. Can always dissamble again.

 

[AHicks]

Knock off works just fine here, especially considering how often I use it....

I bought a knockoff thinking that I'd want to calibrate a measuring tool even if I bought a higher dollar one. It was a good idea. The Park Tool knockoff was reading 40% too low with the factory calibration, which I highly doubt even happened. :lol:

This is where I was coming from when I said "know how to use it". If you are trying to use settings meant for a Park Tool, you WILL be a mile off. The knock off gauge almost certainly came with a spread sheet/chart showing the setting to use for THAT tool. Those settings will be accurate (or good enough). In any case, they'll be even, which is what that tool is all about anyway.

I agree you can build a wheel without one, but IMHO, a rookie will have a better chance of success using one.

 

[RunForTheHills]

So the wheel you are removing spokes from does not have a hub motor. Are you planning to lace that motor into your rusted rim? Is the wheel with the motor the wrong size for your bike?

 

[MarkJohnston]

So the wheel you are removing spokes from does not have a hub motor. Are you planning to lace that motor into your rusted rim? Is the wheel with the motor the wrong size for your bike?

Yeah. See original pictures. Rim is busted from dragging the brakes on a hot day

 

[Chalo]

Rim is busted from dragging the brakes on a hot day

Fanciful thinking there! Did the brake pads catch fire?

 

[RunForTheHills]

So the wheel you are removing spokes from does not have a hub motor. Are you planning to lace that motor into your rusted rim? Is the wheel with the motor the wrong size for your bike?

Yeah. See original pictures. Rim is busted from dragging the brakes on a hot day

If the wheel with the hub motor is a different size than the wheel with the rim you are planning to use, the spokes will almost certainly be the wrong length.

 

[Chalo]

Dunning-Kruger is a harsh master.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Dunning-Kruger is a harsh master.

Yeah yeah Chalo ok. Lol

 

[Comrade]

This is where I was coming from when I said "know how to use it". If you are trying to use settings meant for a Park Tool, you WILL be a mile off. The knock off gauge almost certainly came with a spread sheet/chart showing the setting to use for THAT tool. Those settings will be accurate (or good enough).

When I said mine was off by 40% I certainly meant it was 40% away from the sheet/chart that came with the tool that I was testing.

 

[docw009]

Jeez, the poor guy is broke and he gets advice to buy a truing stand or tension meter? An upside bike makes a great stand, and one can tension by feel and sound. Just compare with front wheel.

Taking apart a regular wheel to relace its rim? Is it the same diameter? Spokes off the hub wheel won't work unless they are, and then you have the smaller holes for 14G spokes that won't take 12G ebike spokes. And 14G spokes are too loose for a big hub motor. Double butted Sapim Strong @ $1.50 each, but then you have to get the length correct, and that's difficult. I don't see this ending well, not with a two day window,

Good luck though,

 

[MarkJohnston]

Jeez, the poor guy is broke and he gets advice to buy a truing stand or tension meter? An upside bike makes a great stand, and one can tension by feel and sound. Just compare with front wheel.

Taking apart a regular wheel to relace its rim? Is it the same diameter? Spokes off the hub wheel won't work unless they are, and then you have the smaller holes for 14G spokes that won't take 12G ebike spokes. And 14G spokes are too loose for a big hub motor. Double butted Sapim Strong @ $1.50 each, but then you have to get the length correct, and that's difficult. I don't see this ending well, not with a two day window,

Good luck though,

Yeah I'm working on that right now. I also don't see this ending well. Those spokes aren't going to reach the rim. I could use 14 g spokes with that rim but they may be too long to work with a hub motor. Guess it's worth a shot.

I think it's time to buy a new kit. The hub motor wire is cracked and needs to be replaced, which is an insane job. It also has 10000 miles on it. Not sure how long the magnets work in side it for.

The original kit was $200 and it's now $280. That's inflation. But I do want a rim that's higher quality. Man, this stinks. I didn't see this coming... I don't even know what kind of Spokes to get for this.

Another problem is these tires I'm using might be too wide for this rim. I'm not really 100% what caused this, but it was difficult and took a lot of effort to install these tires

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

How is a tire that’s too wide for a rim harder to get on? What kind of hard? Is it loose? I’m still shocked u very much so bent your rim with a blowout.