Brushed motor alternative to Etek/Mars

[patallen]

Hi, me and one of my friend, who owns a huge machine shop with a CNC and several expensive metal work tools, wants to build a one-off "de ville" strong E-bike.
He did try my Etek toy jeep, still under work, and is totaly dumb crazy about the feel of such thing, so he convinced himself that he will buy a 12.5hp etek brushed motor with a simple Altrax controller, and go form there.

I think he will never use 100% of the motor capacity on a light bike like he plans to use so i am wondering if there is any alternative in between a, lets say, a 1000w hub motor and a 12.5hp etek.
for now, the only sticked parameters are :
-no hub, only external, belt/chain driven
-brushed type
-36-48v range.

I saw Arlo's build and some others but i am not sure if we want to go the "RC type" motor. Series winded motor is out of discussion as it seems way too heavy, compared to a 22lbs Etek. so, where should we look for ?

Thanks for any suggestions as motor alternative for such kind of project.

 

[neptronix]

Sorry, unfortunately this is a gap that remains unfilled.

There are some 1000W nominal Currie motors out there though, but that might not be powerful enough for you.

 

[drewjet]

There are no brushed motors that I know of, however I was running an Rtek on a bike and found it to be a bit too much.

This brushless motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44058 has been working well for me, running on a $100 greenttime 18FET controller

 

[amberwolf]

Unfortunately all the brushed motors I can think of that would do that kind of power are either quite heavy and large for what they do, and hard to adapt (forklift steering motors, for instance), or require a lot higher voltage to do their rated power (treadmill motors, usually 90-120VDC).

 

[spinningmagnets]

John-in-CR is selling 3 different sizes of E-scooter rear hub-wheels as non-hub motors. The laminations are as thin as anything available to the public at mass-produced prices (0.35mm thick vs the common E-bike hub 0.50mm), and the quality of the metal in the lams is high-end silicon steel. It's low pole-count means it can run very high RPM's without any eddy-current waste-heat losses (if you might want that later).

As a non-hub that can eat high volts, the two largest ones are really E-motorcycle motors, John regularly runs 60-MPH with the motor only getting warm. The smallest one really got my attention, its the "Mini-Monster", perfect for a high-end cargo-bike system. The minimum volts to make it worth your while is 48V, and at 72V it turns into a beast.

If you limit the amps to 45A to let the controller run cool for long life, the affordable Lyen 12-FET controller is an option. John has an 18-FET he can include for a price (to run 60A+), but it's physically larger. But...for an E-bike at only 30-MPH max, it would take a huge and expensive battery pack to provide 72V / 60A, and to get 30-MPH with brutal acceleration, it can be accomplished at 72V / 45A.

Lyens 12-FET
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17683

Johns Mini-Monster
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40859

Price__diameter X width of stator__Kv is RPMs per volt

$285, 150mm X 50mm (5.9 X 2.0-inches) 17-Kv 3240W/4-HP at 72V X 45A, the shell is roughly 6.8-inches diameter, and 4.5-inches wide.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40859

$389, 163mm X 56mm (6.4 X 2.2-inches) 17-Kv
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47607
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42531

$539, 175mm X 60mm (6.9 X 2.4-inches) 7,000W / 9-HP
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46898
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41604

 

[patallen]

how about the LEM-130 ?

 

[neptronix]

Oh, i totally forgot about that motor.

But do you really want to pay $1,400 for that motor though? why not just save $1,000, get an eTek, and run it on lower amps?

Or run a brushless motor, still save money, still have a lower weight.. lol.

 

[patallen]

Thanks for thoses details, been searching for a link to potentialy purchase the motor/controller (mini monster), but apparently there is none...or i didnt searched right ?

The LEM-130 has a very nice package/size compared to the Etek. Yes, 1400$ is considered for the motor...

John-in-CR is selling 3 different sizes of E-scooter rear hub-wheels as non-hub motors. The laminations are as thin as anything available to the public at mass-produced prices (0.35mm thick vs the common E-bike hub 0.50mm), and the quality of the metal in the lams is high-end silicon steel. It's low pole-count means it can run very high RPM's without any eddy-current waste-heat losses (if you might want that later).

As a non-hub that can eat high volts, the two largest ones are really E-motorcycle motors, John regularly runs 60-MPH with the motor only getting warm. The smallest one really got my attention, its the "Mini-Monster", perfect for a high-end cargo-bike system. The minimum volts to make it worth your while is 48V, and at 72V it turns into a beast.

If you limit the amps to 45A to let the controller run cool for long life, the affordable Lyen 12-FET controller is an option. John has an 18-FET he can include for a price (to run 60A+), but it's physically larger. But...for an E-bike at only 30-MPH max, it would take a huge and expensive battery pack to provide 72V / 60A, and to get 30-MPH with brutal acceleration, it can be accomplished at 72V / 45A.

Lyens 12-FET
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17683

Johns Mini-Monster
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40859

Price__diameter X width of stator__Kv is RPMs per volt

$285, 150mm X 50mm (5.9 X 2.0-inches) 17-Kv 3240W/4-HP at 72V X 45A, the shell is roughly 6.8-inches diameter, and 4.5-inches wide.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40859

$389, 163mm X 56mm (6.4 X 2.2-inches) 17-Kv
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47607
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42531

$539, 175mm X 60mm (6.9 X 2.4-inches) 7,000W / 9-HP
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46898
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41604

 

[spinningmagnets]

Click on this, and then click on "send private message", in the subject line you might say "interested in buying mini monster". Put your zip code in the message so he can calculate what shipping would be to you when he answers.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6408

 

[JEB]

How about a Black Max, 1hp, 3.5hp peak @24volts dc 15 lbs, 3000~ rpm, from Robot market place, I am going to use mine on a trike with cog belt reduction (first stage), as Eric Peltzer (electric bike) did it. I found that the hills I go up, I need at least 1000 watts for a short period of time.

 

[neptronix]

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/NPC-4200.html

2.6kW in, 1.9kW out..
Their dyno tests would indicate that it's about 70-75% efficient when producing ~2kW, ~90% efficient when producing 1kW..

That's pretty sad, as the lemco motors and etek reach into 80-95% territory at much higher output levels.

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vo10mowsps.html

This is a third of the price but only ~80% efficient.

 

[patallen]

fwiw we found a perfect candidate.
LEM 130. not cheap.

Anyone have dealt with Heinzmann products ?
They seems to have very nice products.

http://www.heinzmann.com/en/electric-and-hybrid-drives/disc-motors/synchronous-motors