Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard

[beetbocks]

i like the idea of one solid piece motor plate though.
with your current design, you cant adjust belt tension unless you take off belt and wheel.
you can with a single piece motor plate and slotted motor mount holes.

my motor plate is slotted to enable belt tensioning.. hence the same design on the caliber mount to allow the same.

That's what I need - that's a dual motor setup, right? I really only want a single motor so it's lighter to carry and so I can kick up the nose but no cogging would be a nice upgrade.

simon - these motor are so light its not worth bothering about the weight of 2- this deck weighs 7kg- you can carry easily!! that was one of my goals..because your right -you do carry it a lot..

Wow. That came out perfect Richard. Great job. I like the new battery housing design, I know it is temporary, bit what are you using exactly?

i know -thanks- i'm super impressed with it my self- i wasn't expecting this much power from these tiny motors!! the temporary battery box is just a piece of 3mm ABS i had left over from the vacuum forming I just bent the sides up and added some Velcro strapping /gaffer tape..rough and ready but it let me go for a ride and gives a good impression as to the finished size- i will be making another vacuum formed cover when I've had chance to make the wooden mold..

 

[simonjook]

simon - these motor are so light its not worth bothering about the weight of 2- this deck weighs 7kg- you can carry easily!! that was one of my goals..because your right -you do carry it a lot..

Because I ride a pintail (no kick in the tail) I found I couldn't get the nose up with a motor at the front... and yes, I was looking to shed every gram I could. Secondly, each motor adds a little resistance - two motors seems to retard the coasting noticeably - with one its only barely noticeable. I forgot this factor until today when something went nuts and I had to push home - maybe my ESC has gone insane.

 

[sk8norcal]

my motor plate is slotted to enable belt tensioning.. hence the same design on the caliber mount to allow the same..

i know its slotted..
but it requires belt/wheel removal...which is not ideal..

i like the idea of one solid piece motor plate though.
with your current design, you cant adjust belt tension unless you take off belt and wheel.
you can with a single piece motor plate and slotted motor mount holes.

 

[sk8norcal]

Because I ride a pintail (no kick in the tail) I found I couldn't get the nose up with a motor at the front... and yes, I was looking to shed every gram I could. Secondly, each motor adds a little resistance - two motors seems to retard the coasting noticeably - with one its only barely noticeable. I forgot this factor until today when something went nuts and I had to push home - maybe my ESC has gone insane.

^ i noticed that too with the boosted that's why i suggested a freewheel before.

I had a G&S pintail before.
here's a trick to not having to carry your board.
use your tail as a handle to tow ur board.
the nose cant be too long...

 

[simonjook]

^ i noticed that too with the boosted that's why i suggested a freewheel before.

I'd love to be able to switch into freewheel mode. Not remotely but a simple process for when the batteries are flat. I don't want to freewheel when commuting though as brakes are really handy on some of the steep narrow sections of my route.

here's a trick to not having to carry your board. use your tail as a handle to tow ur board. the nose cant be too long...

I'm tall so my nose tends to drag and I go up and down stairs all day long. By carry I mean it straps to my backpack anyway.

Think I fried my budget HK150A ESC ... make of me kinda wish I'd bought the Evolve - such an awesome board - not sure about it's hill climbing pedigree though.

Beetbocks can you give feedback on your range vs battery capacity with the new (or was it upgraded) ESC?

 

[beetbocks]

Simon- as soon as i get a chance to ride it for a prolonged period- ill be giving some feedback- i don't like riding it with the electronics hanging out like it is- i need to make the new battery box..

 

[rf]

I'd love to be able to switch into freewheel mode. Not remotely but a simple process for when the batteries are flat. ...

Been thinking about that for a long time for my ebike too. Imagining an ESC mode that provides just enough bias to the motor to overcome it's own drag. No need for more hardware -- except perhaps a small backup battery. Hopefully this mode would take very little power -- seems reasonable.

Might even make the threshold adjustable. With a touch more bias it might feel like you just have really great bearings. Glide mode ...

Yep, must have access to the ESC code. Hacking that is going to do cool things for eskateboards.

Richard F.

 

[rf]

Just thought of something ... Glide Mode could level hills. If you're not careful.

 

[yelnatsch517]

I don't have actual longboard trucks with me so I can't confirm, but according to my rough calculations a Caliber 184mm truck should be able to fit two 62mm motors (without shaft) with 60mm of room for mounts and pulleys.
This motor: NTM 50-60 270KV would fit nicely in there if my calculations are correct.

Unfortunately, I think not - it wouldn't fit on mine without being perilously close to the wheel pulley. I have an SK3 Turnigy SK3 - 6364-190kv which has a 73mm body and it hangs 20mm past the centre line. There is only 9mm between the wheel pulley and the motor body nearly half of which is occupied by the aluminium motor mount only leaving a 5mm gap. You are still a few mm short of it fitting. You can just flip over one mount though and mount it outboard.

That is odd. You have the Caliber 184mm hanger, not the 160mm?
184mm hangers should give you 92mm of room per side to mount the motors. A 62mm motor body would give 30mm of room for the pulley and mounts.
Unless the Caliber hangers aren't really 184mm, everything should fit. Do you have a picture of your setup?

 

[jacobbloy]

My caliber hanger is 182mm, but you lose 25mm each side for the wheel and cog, that gives u 132mm left, then you take 5mm clearance each side in between mount and cog plus 6mm each side for the motor bracket, that then leaves you with 110mm left to fit two 62mm motors if you using the NTM motors the are actually 64mm if my maths are correct there is no way to fit two motors on a caliber truck.

The rey hangers I'm planning to use will only just fit with the 200mm hanger, and that's with cutting the clearance a couple of mm each side!

The only way to make it work is to make a thinner bracket that can mount both motors on to it, with reversed motor shafts, like boosted boards did, I'm thinking that would be to much trouble when Richards diagonal setup works very well!

I have the room on the rey 200mm hanger but I'm thinking of not doing it coz I sort of like my 180mm hanger and I like the diagonal setup!

 

[jacobbloy]

Hey guys what do you think of my under board setup ruff darfts, I have 4 options, using the side by side motor's with a longer hanger or just going with the original diagonal setup, I'll be using a battery pack made up of 4x 2s 8000mah battery's in series pack size 240mm wide x 160mm long x 17mm high 1kg, the esc is bruno's dual 120amp twin 72x87x23 i think 250g, Motors 50x62 500g each.

 

[simonjook]

Simon- as soon as i get a chance to ride it for a prolonged period- ill be giving some feedback- i don't like riding it with the electronics hanging out like it is- i need to make the new battery box..

You need a good 3D printer - the saviour of my electronics

That is odd. You have the Caliber 184mm hanger, not the 160mm?

I think you are not adding the offset of the Abec11 Flywheel cores. Yes, I have 184mm and I posted some pics earlier - not great for what you want to see but if you look hard you get an idea. I wont be able to take another one until next week.

 

[yelnatsch517]

My caliber hanger is 182mm, but you lose 25mm each side for the wheel and cog, that gives u 132mm left, then you take 5mm clearance each side in between mount and cog plus 6mm each side for the motor bracket, that then leaves you with 110mm left to fit two 62mm motors if you using the NTM motors the are actually 64mm if my maths are correct there is no way to fit two motors on a caliber truck.

The rey hangers I'm planning to use will only just fit with the 200mm hanger, and that's with cutting the clearance a couple of mm each side!

The only way to make it work is to make a thinner bracket that can mount both motors on to it, with reversed motor shafts, like boosted boards did, I'm thinking that would be to much trouble when Richards diagonal setup works very well!

I have the room on the rey 200mm hanger but I'm thinking of not doing it coz I sort of like my 180mm hanger and I like the diagonal setup!

I totally forgot the centerset for the wheels eats up a bit of room.
Back to the drawing board.

 

[beetbocks]

I must admit everybody seems to want a boosted board set up but the diagonal drive works perfectly for weight distribution around the deck .
We have 3 d printer at work but to print the battery box which is 370mm long is very expensive ..

 

[jacobbloy]

There was a concept board on the net that I cannot find any more that had a battery cover that almost spread over the whole bottom of the board but didnt give much thickness to it and it was made out of carbon fiber, this Is what I want to do that is why I'm going for the thin 4x2s battery pack

 

[sk8norcal]

this one?

http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2013/01/e-boards-by-yuneec-internationl.html

 

[simonjook]

I must admit everybody seems to want a boosted board set up but the diagonal drive works perfectly for weight distribution around the deck .
We have 3 d printer at work but to print the battery box which is 370mm long is very expensive ..

My temporary battery and ESC box would have cost less than $10 to print.

I understand people wanting a dual motor setup if they've ridden one of the older electric skateboards that didn't use normal skate trucks - they are prone to some annoying torque steer but I find with the Calibers I get none or if I do it's so negligible it isn't noticeable - I run the trucks pretty loose too. Presumably the Holeys would be similar the Calibers.

So far dual motors seems like a way to generate more drag when freewheeling, more weight, higher power consumption and in turn less range - two motors should have less efficiency but it depends on load and motor design presumably. Boosted claims 10km range and ability to climb 15% grade with 5.5-6.8kg board - I get 15km, climb 20% on my regular ride without stalling (without carrying speed into the climb) and my whole board weighs 5.75kg (12.6 pounds) - and we have the same top speed. One motor, budget ESC, Beetbocks hub, my own prototype mount and a heavier board (Arbor Pintail) than the Boosted.

So I'm saying why bother with two motors.

 

[yelnatsch517]

I must admit everybody seems to want a boosted board set up but the diagonal drive works perfectly for weight distribution around the deck .
We have 3 d printer at work but to print the battery box which is 370mm long is very expensive ..

Your design is great, but there are specific reason that I personally prefer the boosted design.
I plan on carrying the board I build in a backpack like this picture http://locomotionculture.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/scooter-board-in-bag.jpg
Also, I would like to keep anything out of the middle of the longboard for clearance and maybe... to maintain the flexibility of the board.
I like Evolve boards, but I feel boosted has got them beat in that regards.
What I want is the torque and power of the boosted boards and the range of the Evolve boards, but maintain the overall design shape of the boosted. I'm not sure if that makes sense.
To do so, I need to pick my motor(s) carefully for a good compromise between power, range, weight, and still maintain the feel of riding a longboard.
What I need to keep in mind though is that boosted boards is designed to achieve only 20mph and for good reason. The loaded vanguard, and generally loaded boards, are extremely flexible which is unstable at higher speeds.
Using a stiffer board like most Landyachtz boards increases weight, but allows me to mount battery packs in the center of the board without too much impact of the feel.
I do like the idea of using thin battery packs and spreading it out across the board, but it raises a concern on the strength of the protection for the batteries.

The result is lots of design considerations.

 

[yelnatsch517]

I must admit everybody seems to want a boosted board set up but the diagonal drive works perfectly for weight distribution around the deck .
We have 3 d printer at work but to print the battery box which is 370mm long is very expensive ..

My temporary battery and ESC box would have cost less than $10 to print.

I understand people wanting a dual motor setup if they've ridden one of the older electric skateboards that didn't use normal skate trucks - they are prone to some annoying torque steer but I find with the Calibers I get none or if I do it's so negligible it isn't noticeable - I run the trucks pretty loose too. Presumably the Holeys would be similar the Calibers.

So far dual motors seems like a way to generate more drag when freewheeling, more weight, higher power consumption and in turn less range - two motors should have less efficiency but it depends on load and motor design presumably. Boosted claims 10km range and ability to climb 15% grade with 5.5-6.8kg board - I get 15km, climb 20% on my regular ride without stalling (without carrying speed into the climb) and my whole board weighs 5.75kg (12.6 pounds) - and we have the same top speed. One motor, budget ESC, Beetbocks hub, my own prototype mount and a heavier board (Arbor Pintail) than the Boosted.

So I'm saying why bother with two motors.

Sounds like I'm going with a single motor.

this one?

http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2013/01/e-boards-by-yuneec-internationl.html

Wow, yuneec is one incredible company. Check out their vids. They make some incredible motors, some power gokarts, cars, and even small planes!!!

 

[beetbocks]

i can see the arguments of both setups- at the end of the day its down to personnel taste i suppose.. i like the dual wheel for the power and grip and other people like the single lighter motor set up- Although 7Kg isn't exactly that heavy for the dual 50mm 4Kw board when you consider the weight of my Elektroskate 500W (brushless and Lithium) is 9.25KG and its no were near as powerful... this is the beauty of my kit i believe the fact that you can have any set up you like!! monster hill climber or light weight range king!!

what sort of size is your battery box for $10 and what is the printer medium ?

 

[jacobbloy]

this one?

http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2013/01/e-boards-by-yuneec-internationl.html

Yes this one its a really nice looking setup!

 

[simonjook]

i can see the arguments of both setups- at the end of the day its down to personnel taste i suppose.. i like the dual wheel for the power and grip and other people like the single lighter motor set up- what sort of size is your battery box for $10 and what is the printer medium ?

Power/torque - It's hard to stay on with all the torque I have and I really don't need to go faster than 20mph - I'm already passing most bikes on the bikeway and I climb one of the steeper long roads at 12+km/h (8mph+) all the way. As for grip I've not had a single issue with grip - ever (love the Flywheels). But it's totally a personal preference thing and I'm really just trying to convince those that don't like these kits because you cant o back to back with motors on the rear that it's not a big deal.

I have 3 reprap (I build them) and 1xUP! 3D printer. It's ABS at the moment but the final will be nylon.

I do like the idea of using thin battery packs and spreading it out across the board, but it raises a concern on the strength of the protection for the batteries.

You could easily go a 3S 5000mAh pack wedged in behind each truck (6s total) and you get something similar to Boosted. It's desirable to keep your packs safe from harm on drop offs as ripping open a cell might make for an impressive fire. I am using 6S (2 x 3S) to get my 15km range.

 

[beetbocks]

that is a nice setup jacob- i agree- i saw that whilst researching things for my deck- its doesn't seem to have been manufactured though.. i like the carbon box,cover etc..

 

[simonjook]

I think the board would be very rigid though - possibly not the most pleasant things to ride. The flex in the deck makes it more pleasant to ride and easier to carve. I rode an alumnium deck once - it was horrible.

 

[jacobbloy]

For a cruising board yes flex is nice but for a down hill board I like my 12mm thick hard maple deck, very stiff!