Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard

[Ttw]

I took 2 of those : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8581
5s 5000mah 20c -30c burst.
I expect 15km from them (in series)

 

[Silenthunter]

Guys, any recommendation for a good ESC that will last long time?

Thanks!

 

[matriax1]

Ttw, it'd be appreciated if you could post your experience with them later on, I really need the distance.

I bought a Turnigy Sentilon 100 amp. Didn't receive it yet but that's what I got

 

[Ttw]

From what ive seen bruno's ESC is the best thing you can get.
I estimate the range of my pack at 15km. I made 6km today will do 6 more tomorow and ill tell you how much is left.
If i can get 3 times 6km (my commute to work) it would be awsome but 2 times was my goal so I dont have to recharge every day

 

[matriax1]

So apparently my ESC is an OPTO so I need a separate battery for my receiver, I think. Has anyone else had the same situation as me? What did you buy and what ESC did you have?

 

[sw33n3y]

Hey man, I would just return the OCTO if you can. it probably will work but you'll have batteries for the transmitter and the engine and now another set for the Reciever. I did the same thing you did and bought the RED BRICK octo one and ended up returning it (never used it). Also, Just so you know, if you do return it just know that RED BRICKs are for planes and again, although they work fine(from the videos i've seen) they are for a constant RPM a.k.a planes. A better choice would be a RC car ESC .this is what i got http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41171__Hobby_King_150A_High_performance_Brushless_Car_ESC_USA_warehouse_.html and it works great.

Honestly, i was in a hurry and just bought the first one that met my needs but this guy is like $35: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28377__Hobbyking_X_Car_120A_Brushless_Car_ESC_sensored_sensorless_.html

 

[mwkeefer]

So apparently my ESC is an OPTO so I need a separate battery for my receiver, I think. Has anyone else had the same situation as me? What did you buy and what ESC did you have?

I'd stick with the optically isolated ESC, they are better in the long run and usually run higher voltage (or are capable).

All you need is a low current DC to DC converter to provide 5v for your receiver.. they run about 10.00 to 30.00 depending on the current, I got a bunch of adjustable ones from Castle Creations, Turnigy and Finally found some switching fully potted units on a surplus site which will handle up to 60v and provide variable output.

This is normal in the RC world.
Airplane controllers will work just as well in most cases as RC car if not better, they do operate better or more efficiently at constant maximum RPM but with airflow they will handle loads of 220lbs on 26" eBikes... I've used everything from Castle Creations HV110 to 60A HV OPTO Turnigy and 100A Superbrain... wired properly and with the 5v BEC.. well you get the idea.

One other nice thing about an OPTO controller, it's more controller and no BEC the BEC can be more efficient and can offer to power not just your receiver but also lighting (LED or other), etc... all from the same pack

Hope that helps explain it

-Mike

 

[beetbocks]

Regarding ESC - I may be biased but for this application the Alien ESC is tested and proved and works flawlessly.. it also has built in UBEC and antispark..

 

[brunotollot]

Hello Bruno,

I've tried a few ways to ask, but this seems to work best for now...

With regard to these motors:

3000 watt brushless outrunner, 170kv, 80Amp, 63x75, 10mm shaft, 780g.
2000 watt brushless outrunner, 270kv, 65Amp, 50x65, 8mm shaft, 380g.

Could you provide prices?

Also which ESC would I want to pair with single and dual versions of longboards powered by those motors and what would their price be?

Finally I know it was mentioned that your selling sets or matched motor/controllers, what do you currently have available for use with these long board kits and what are their prices?

Personally I'm in the USA but I'm sure everyone would love to know a rough idea of availability, price and shipping costs.

Thanks in advance for your assistance !

Regards,
Mike

Hi Mike, The price are 49 pounds for the 3000 watt motor and 39 for the 2000 watt. The motors can be custom made, with a MOQ so if someone needs different spec please let me know.

The controller are 3 available.

Twin ESC 150 Amp x2 OPTO isolated, 2-12S, 179 pounds
Twin ESC 120 Amp x2 BEC, 2-8 S for the smaller motors, 149 pounds
Single ESC 120 Amp, 2-12 OPTO isolated, 149 pounds

There is a discount available.

About you post for the ESC, the suggestion is go for RC car ESC. The logic board is designed to move wheels, quite heay load in big models, different to move propellers in airplane or heli. The Alien for E board are designed for E board application.

Hi Bruno,

I connected the engine to a friend RC car with 4s battery and 80A ESC and the engine works just fine. I could not test the ESC but it smells like it got burn a little, so I guess the ESC is damaged.

What are the specs of the ESC you are selling and how much $$$ it cost?

In my case the engine and the ESC would never get worm and it worked for 2-3 weeks with 5 miles range each time with no problems. It happened on last Saturday when I changed the wheels form 70mm to 80mm. I never saw a fireball or anything like that. I would get some sparks when I would connect the extension from the board to the battery till Saturday when the cables would get super hot in 2-3 seconds.

Do you thing a stronger ESC with changing the gearing from 20 teeth (front engine cog) and 30 teeth (wheel cog) to 17t and 30t would help?

Is the ESC reparable? Should I go for 180A-200A ESC?

Thank you,
Vitali

Hi. You can try to send the ESC back for a replacement. Then if you will received the new one go back with the smaller wheels. That ESC can handle the load that the big wheels give to. You need something bigger.

 

[sk8norcal]

Bruno was very available and VERY helpful with the setup and programation of the controller.
Performance are realy nice, the motor is struggling a bit at start up so you just have to kick once to help it. It also help you keep your balance so it is not even a con..

to me that is a con to not be able to start smoothly from dead stop,
if u tried sensored setup, its much more enjoyable

Bruno, is there a way around this by tuning the controller?
*btw Ttw is using just one motor.

 

[bluemc]

Is the dual motor better on stop start? Do you still need to kick start it?

 

[mwkeefer]

Bruno,

First thank you for addressing my questions with regards to ESCs and motors you offer! I know you both are working at other things while attempting to get this all up and off the ground without a hitch and that takes time

About you post for the ESC, the suggestion is go for RC car ESC. The logic board is designed to move wheels, quite heay load in big models, different to move propellers in airplane or heli. The Alien for E board are designed for E board application.

Perhaps you are right, in eBike design I've found that RC car ESCs are useless and a large concern I have is people will attempt to use "Resistive Braking" since I've never seen a car ESC with regen design that will quickly lead to popping the controller...

I meant to ask for clarification of if these were sensored motors and sensor capable ESCs?

One final conundrum I'm encountering... while I am certain your dual controller works quite well if not perfectly for this application as it stands currently, I had hoped to go a bit further with trick ability. I had intended to use dual sensored controllers with a microprocessor to handle throttle management between the two and an accelerometer and gyro to detect when I turn the board sideways while riding and cut power to the wheels to allow power sliding and drifting... Another benefit I had hoped to explore was the ability to detect wheel slippage and lowering slipping wheel throttle while raising traction on the other.. your controllers may already do this - including smooth start with sensored start up and regen in which case I will just buy my controller from you (a dual) along with a pair of the 2000w motors - I am trying to keep this board light enough that with a minimal power source I can do some old tricks which is my only reason for not wishing to go with the larger motors 3000w variety.

I realize I am doing a ridiculous job of explaining myself and I do hope I've managed to at minimum communicate my design goals and reasons?

I await your reply so I may go about placing a final order for all the bits and pieces to construct the best possible board

Thank you for your efforts and assistance, this will be a great project and with good speed control and a little additional engineering I figure I can add a bar to it with handlebars so my son can use it in the parking lot too... fun for everyone

Regards,
Mike

 

[mwkeefer]

Anyone,

I was just thinking about using Car ESCs on the electric long board and something dawned upon me... The biggest reason for issues with RC Car ESCs not working out on higher load devices (in my experience and testing) is that RC cars have slipper clutches to prevent over torque from breaking the drive line.

Without a slipper / friction clutch I don't think a normal RC car ESC would be a long term reliable solution.

Even on my eBikes which are RC powered (5kw) the Astro 3220 is linked to a slipper clutch before coupling to the second stage - granted I keep it tight but it does help on smooth startup.

One final question for anyone:
1.) Do RC Car ESCs (any of them) support Regenerative instead of resistive braking - I've never tested it before with an onboard meter on my RC Cars with brushless controllers.

TIA for any insight or correction of my views if incorrect

-Mike

 

[matriax1]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to type out all that info! I assume I still need a separate battery right?
Would http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__33297__TURNIGY_3A_UBEC_w_Noise_Reduction_USA_Warehouse_.html and http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28655__Turnigy_nano_tech_1600mAh_2S1P_20_40C_LiFePo4_Receiver_Pack_US_Warehouse_.html work?
If you could give me examples, that'd be great. I really want to be able to have LEDs but I have no idea how to go about this.

This is what I plan on buying/have bought already. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys! I also plan on using this as my downhill board when I take the motor and stuff off so you’ll see DH influences here and there. Yeah, the deck isn’t made for it but I’m in Illinois so no worries =P

Board: Holesom Streetsweeper – $100 – I already had this and the holes on the side should help with temporary mounting to test out the setup of the batteries and ESC. Also, large wheel cutouts!
Wheels: Flywheels 97mm – $95– Why, Ken? Why..? Cause I can, and I plan on using this for years.
Bearings: Swiss – $50 – I had these, just switching them out. Why? They’re pretty nice bearings. Way above Reds. Super Sixes would be a nice upgrade though.
Bushings: Stock – Free – I’ll upgrade later to barrels or eliminators so I don’t wobble.
Spacers: $2 – I love me some spacers

Now for the fun stuff! That I don't know much about...so help here would be FANTASTIC, I just threw together parts that looked compatible.

Motor: Turnigy SK3 6364 190 – $70 – I don’t know much of RC tech but I just know this is a decent motor. Low kv for high torque. Doesn’t seem to use too much power. 2000+ watts for climbing these awesome hills we have. Actually, I’d go lower wattage and higher kv but I don’t want my belts to be stripped. A high kv motor will be an experiment later on.
Battery: Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 10s 25-50C – $120 – High mah = capacity. 10s matches my motor. 25C, all we really need right? I should do more but I’m already slightly above budget.
Charger: iCharger 1010Bplus 300W 10s Balance/Charger – $120 – It was the cheaper charger that did 10s…
Charger Power Supply: HobbyKing 350w 25A - Only supply that could power my charger
Controller: Turnigy GTX3 – $40 – Big screen! Throttle trim is pretty big for me, and it seems to use a battery pack so I can take it apart and make it smaller if I wanted to. And I enjoy the ability to brake!
ESC: TURNIGY Sentilon100A - $80 - Best quality that could handle 10s. One couldn't brake, the other didn't have a programming card.
Drive System: Alien Drive – $250
UBEC: TURNIGY 3A UBEC - $5
Receiver Battery: Turnigy nano-tech 1600mAh 2S1P 20~40C LiFePo4 - $10

Total for me (somethings are considered free since I already had them): $827. $27 off budget. Grrr…

 

[Ttw]

take 2 5s 5000mah batterie and make a series adapter. you save a bit on battery and a lot on charger.
downside is you lose a bit of space, bit more weight and a bit of simplicity.

 

[sk8norcal]

a little additional engineering I figure I can add a bar to it with handlebars so my son can use it in the parking lot too... fun for everyone

these guys might sell them separately.
http://www.rogers-bros.com/rb-mini

 

[Silenthunter]

I am going to try Mamba monster 2 esc. What do you guys think about this ESC? Would this esc work well with Turnigy 6364-245kv?

 

[brunotollot]

Bruno was very available and VERY helpful with the setup and programation of the controller.
Performance are realy nice, the motor is struggling a bit at start up so you just have to kick once to help it. It also help you keep your balance so it is not even a con..

to me that is a con to not be able to start smoothly from dead stop,
if u tried sensored setup, its much more enjoyable

Bruno, is there a way around this by tuning the controller?
*btw Ttw is using just one motor.

Hi, just send to Ttw some info to fix the problem. The ESC can be program, of course a dual system will have half issue.

Bruno,

First thank you for addressing my questions with regards to ESCs and motors you offer! I know you both are working at other things while attempting to get this all up and off the ground without a hitch and that takes time

About you post for the ESC, the suggestion is go for RC car ESC. The logic board is designed to move wheels, quite heay load in big models, different to move propellers in airplane or heli. The Alien for E board are designed for E board application.

Perhaps you are right, in eBike design I've found that RC car ESCs are useless and a large concern I have is people will attempt to use "Resistive Braking" since I've never seen a car ESC with regen design that will quickly lead to popping the controller...

I meant to ask for clarification of if these were sensored motors and sensor capable ESCs?

One final conundrum I'm encountering... while I am certain your dual controller works quite well if not perfectly for this application as it stands currently, I had hoped to go a bit further with trick ability. I had intended to use dual sensored controllers with a microprocessor to handle throttle management between the two and an accelerometer and gyro to detect when I turn the board sideways while riding and cut power to the wheels to allow power sliding and drifting... Another benefit I had hoped to explore was the ability to detect wheel slippage and lowering slipping wheel throttle while raising traction on the other.. your controllers may already do this - including smooth start with sensored start up and regen in which case I will just buy my controller from you (a dual) along with a pair of the 2000w motors - I am trying to keep this board light enough that with a minimal power source I can do some old tricks which is my only reason for not wishing to go with the larger motors 3000w variety.

I realize I am doing a ridiculous job of explaining myself and I do hope I've managed to at minimum communicate my design goals and reasons?

I await your reply so I may go about placing a final order for all the bits and pieces to construct the best possible board

Thank you for your efforts and assistance, this will be a great project and with good speed control and a little additional engineering I figure I can add a bar to it with handlebars so my son can use it in the parking lot too... fun for everyone

Regards,
Mike

A controllers with a microprocessor to handle throttle management will be very good, but i think it will be expensive, also a sensored controller( I do few ) need a sensored motor that need to be well calibrate between phases\sensors. If not the system will be damage. The sensorless system work well, and the max power of the RC motors is on max rpm( sensored system workin better in torque, not in final rpm) so the max power is lower, ( tested )
In the end if you want a sensored system is more complicate to do, so you need to have a minimun experience and knowlodge. No all the people that do DIY want to do this way. Anyway regarding an ESC it need to have very good components, that means more strong, more reliable. Here few pictures for understand what i mean.

Mike, feel free to send me a PM if you need something, also for everyone need to do an order i can do only this week and next week. Then i will be in holiday for 3 weeks, or my wife will kick me out the house..

 

[Ttw]

A bit more info about range.
Just made 13km and i went from full charge to around 50% (a bit above 19v per pack)
So i should be able to easily do 20/25km so 3 commute one a single charge for me which is nice

Now im about to try new software from Bruno to fix my brake issue.

 

[Silenthunter]

Guys here is my fried ESC.... has any one have any thoughts on what happened here?

 

[Silenthunter]

Guys here is my fried ESC.... has any one have any thoughts on what happened here?

 

[sw33n3y]

Board: Holesom Streetsweeper – $100 – I already had this and the holes on the side should help with temporary mounting to test out the setup of the batteries and ESC. Also, large wheel cutouts!
Wheels: Flywheels 97mm – $95– Why, Ken? Why..? Cause I can, and I plan on using this for years.
Bearings: Swiss – $50 – I had these, just switching them out. Why? They’re pretty nice bearings. Way above Reds. Super Sixes would be a nice upgrade though.
Bushings: Stock – Free – I’ll upgrade later to barrels or eliminators so I don’t wobble.
Spacers: $2 – I love me some spacers

Now for the fun stuff! That I don't know much about...so help here would be FANTASTIC, I just threw together parts that looked compatible.

Motor: Turnigy SK3 6364 190 – $70 – I don’t know much of RC tech but I just know this is a decent motor. Low kv for high torque. Doesn’t seem to use too much power. 2000+ watts for climbing these awesome hills we have. Actually, I’d go lower wattage and higher kv but I don’t want my belts to be stripped. A high kv motor will be an experiment later on.
Battery: Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 10s 25-50C – $120 – High mah = capacity. 10s matches my motor. 25C, all we really need right? I should do more but I’m already slightly above budget.
Charger: iCharger 1010Bplus 300W 10s Balance/Charger – $120 – It was the cheaper charger that did 10s…
Charger Power Supply: HobbyKing 350w 25A - Only supply that could power my charger
Controller: Turnigy GTX3 – $40 – Big screen! Throttle trim is pretty big for me, and it seems to use a battery pack so I can take it apart and make it smaller if I wanted to. And I enjoy the ability to brake!
ESC: TURNIGY Sentilon100A - $80 - Best quality that could handle 10s. One couldn't brake, the other didn't have a programming card.
Drive System: Alien Drive – $250
UBEC: TURNIGY 3A UBEC - $5
Receiver Battery: Turnigy nano-tech 1600mAh 2S1P 20~40C LiFePo4 - $10

Total for me (somethings are considered free since I already had them): $827. $27 off budget. Grrr…

matriax1,

Can i Ask why you want to spend so much? That is a lot of overkill man. First off, you don't need to buy an ESC if you're buying the Alien drive system i believe that's what the system is. Also, I'm not sure about the Alien drive system but you really don't need to buy a UBEC and reciever battery if you just buy and ESC with a UBEC. it'll save you space, weight, and money.

I don't know if you want duel motors but since the list shows 1 motor setup I'll give you the ideal list of things that you'll need and it won't cost more than 200 bucks. This is what i have on my board and it works great. It can start for a dead stop, I'm not sure what top speed is because it's too fast for me but it definitely does 30+mph. Range, not really sure but I went 5 miles and the battery was still at 70%. Keep in mind i weight about 180 and the equipment adds about 8 pounds to the board.

Motor: anything about 1500w. kv doesn't really matter as long as you meet wattage but anything under 600kv will work fine. I have this: and my is power with a 6cell

ESC: anything that's over 100amps with a UBEC is great. get a Plane ESC if you plan on just cruising. Get the Alien power ESC if you want but make sure its programmable so you can go from a dead stop.

GET A PROGRAMMING CARD. No guess work, easy to find to and get the settings just write.
Battery: hobby king 6s. why? becauses 2000watts is more than enough. better when it comes to weight, charging times, voltage checkers, and finding chargers, power supplies.
Charger: I have an 80w 7amp power supply. The settings have been at 5amps and it charges for 30 percent to 100 percent in about 90 minutes on the balancing(slower) setting. When its set to fast charge and 7 amps it takes about 40 minutes. You DO NOT need a 350watt power supply. It's not going to charge it any faster than the wattage and amps of the battery charger. So if its 105w 7 amp charger get atleast 105w and atleast 7 amps. It's better to go about 20% more in watts and amps just because you DO want the supply to be better than the charger but 350.
controller: the one you want is fine, that screen it cool. You can always make your own smaller 1 channel one with arduino and xbees or 8 dollar set of RF transmitter and recievers.


so that's about 500 dollars less than what you were going to spend for the same effect/quality. I'd take that money and buy this retro drive kit with the wheels/trucks and all because that motor mount was a pain in the ass to make. IF only i had a CNC machine.......anyways, You could even use that money to make a second one with the handle bars for you kid....just make sure you get a programming card and turn down the settings. I'd also recommend taking the controller apart. taking the trigger off the potentiometer. setting the ESC with the Full values of the POT and then putting the trigger back on. (the trigger restrict the full motion of the POT so full throttle will only be 60 percent.)


good luck man.

 

[sk8norcal]

^ you are confusing Alien drive system with Alien power system......
and did you include cost of the skateboard and wheels?

and many people on here recommend getting the ICharger (better quality) instead of the cheaper stuff....

I get @$900 or more for a complete setup using Alien drive and Alien power system running 1wd with the bigger motor.

USD dollar

Alien drive single kit + set of holleys $230 (shipped)
(15p/30d)(HTD 5mm belt)
1 set of ABEC 11 Flywheels- 83mm diameter $71 + shipping
1 set of bearings = $15
skateboard deck + grip + hardware + risers = $120 + shipping
Battery box $

Alien power kit (single) = $182 + $60 or $75 + ($42 shipping)
3000 watt brushless outrunner, 170kv, 80Amp, 63x75, 10mm shaft, 780g.
2000 watt brushless outrunner, 270kv, 65Amp, 50x65, 8mm shaft, 380g.

Hobby King GT-2 2.4Ghz 2Ch Tx & Rx = $16+shipping

Turnigy TrackStar 150A 1/8th Scale Brushless Car ESC = $68+shipping
Hobby King 150A High performance Brushless Car ESC = $67+shipping
Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6354 215kv Brushless Outrunner Motor (8mm shaft, 32mm bolt holes) - $60+ shipping
NTM Prop Drive 50-60 270kv Brushless Outrunner Motor (8mm shaft, 30mm bolt holes) - $42 + shipping

Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Pack = $48 + shipping
ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 5S 20C Lipo Pack = $40 + shipping
Charger + power supply = $50-$150

 

[bluemc]

@sk8norcal - How do you connect the 2x Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6354-215kv Brushless Outrunner Motors and the 2 ESCs together? Do you half 1 battery powering one motor and another battery powering another?

MOTOR > ESC > BATTERY > REMOTE?

 

[sk8norcal]

you can do that,

or
parallel the 2 ESC
to run off one battery pack.

your remote can controll both ESC