Brushless dual 6kw ALIEN Power system - electric longboard

[rf]

Concerning remotes and nunchucks.. I think rather than having to keep the thumb on the joystick at all times we need to program the thing exactly like the guys from Metro-Board did, as another forum user has pointed out before. Pressing a button to slowly get up to slow speed, then slowly increasing or decreasing the speed to coast without pressing any button. Can't find the code they use though, anyone capable of doing so?

I bought a Nunchuck like yours for ten bucks and spent quite a bit of time programming it in different ways, looking for the best way to set it up. My previous powered skateboard (Exkate) came with an R/C-like trigger controller. Pull the trigger back to accellerate, push it forward for brakes. It snaps to the center by itself, no accelleration, no brakes. I took that board to work a few times.

At one point a 60-something lady in the office took the controller out of my hand and asked me how it worked. She stood on the board and slowly squeezed the trigger and went slowly gliding down the hallway. No problems. I'd be afraid to hand her your Wiichuck.

In my opinion the Wiichuck is not appropriate for controlling a vehicle with a human aboard. There's not enough travel in the tiny joystick. (And there are other problems, besides.) The strange cruise-controllish setup folks are using with the Wiichuck, as with your Metroboard are an attempt to make it suitable where it's simply not.

I'm glad you like your setup. I've seen others that seem to like it too. I'd much rather put up with a huge R/C car controller instead. It works the way a speed control should. Even though they're way too big and have a funny, useless steering wheel sticking out. (I'll be building my own version of that kind of controller, smaller and lighter. Or adapting the one from my old Exkate.)

I've lost track of how many different ways I've tried to make the Wiichuck suitable. To me, it's just not. Not enough travel in the joystick and, at least with the unit I have, too much jitter/noise in the data. It's way cheap and simple to implement, so I was very hopeful. I just want a nice simple control with a fairly long travel. No cruise control. I think that's a band-aid.

There are so many possible ways to build good controllers. I think too many folks are getting sucked into the Wiichuck because it's cheap, tiny and relatively simple. It's just not good enough.

 

[torqueboards]

I agree. Counting all the times I have fell off my board and/or accidental times I throttled my controller. I would think a wii remote with a joystick would magnify accidental throttles too much. I like the idea of a throttle I just hate my big RC controller. I don't want a joystick as it's too easy to mess up a bump in the road might jolt your joystick.

RF - I am highly interested in making my controller smaller. Tired of this big controller that I have to put in my backpack. I would so much prefer the same controller except smaller that can fit in my back pocket.

I think one like this or the common chinese made ones would work great.

 

[furp]

It should be possible to take on of those 20 $ HK car transmitters, take out everything you dont need and put the rest into a new case. I would not trust bluetooth at 20mph on a board anyway. Its not even more expensive than an arduino+wiichuk and does not need programming at all. Papo did something like that.

 

[superpef]

I bought a Nunchuck like yours for ten bucks and spent quite a bit of time programming it in different ways, looking for the best way to set it up. My previous powered skateboard (Exkate) came with an R/C-like trigger controller. Pull the trigger back to accellerate, push it forward for brakes. It snaps to the center by itself, no accelleration, no brakes. I took that board to work a few times.

At one point a 60-something lady in the office took the controller out of my hand and asked me how it worked. She stood on the board and slowly squeezed the trigger and went slowly gliding down the hallway. No problems. I'd be afraid to hand her your Wiichuck.

In my opinion the Wiichuck is not appropriate for controlling a vehicle with a human aboard. There's not enough travel in the tiny joystick. (And there are other problems, besides.) The strange cruise-controllish setup folks are using with the Wiichuck, as with your Metroboard are an attempt to make it suitable where it's simply not.

I'm glad you like your setup. I've seen others that seem to like it too. I'd much rather put up with a huge R/C car controller instead. It works the way a speed control should. Even though they're way too big and have a funny, useless steering wheel sticking out. (I'll be building my own version of that kind of controller, smaller and lighter. Or adapting the one from my old Exkate.)

I've lost track of how many different ways I've tried to make the Wiichuck suitable. To me, it's just not. Not enough travel in the joystick and, at least with the unit I have, too much jitter/noise in the data. It's way cheap and simple to implement, so I was very hopeful. I just want a nice simple control with a fairly long travel. No cruise control. I think that's a band-aid.

There are so many possible ways to build good controllers. I think too many folks are getting sucked into the Wiichuck because it's cheap, tiny and relatively simple. It's just not good enough.

That's not my Metroboard and not my Wiichuck, I am currently pre-engineering my setup and brainstorming about a proper remote. I think the guy presenting might be one of their co-founders. I like the idea of cruise control, because I am quite certain, that keeping my finger in a certain position and controlling the speed at all times will have a negative effect on the experience.

Thanks for your input, your experience is precious information.

 

[rf]

That's not my Metroboard and not my Wiichuck, I am currently pre-engineering my setup and brainstorming about a proper remote. I think the guy presenting might be one of their co-founders. I like the idea of cruise control, because I am quite certain, that keeping my finger in a certain position and controlling the speed at all times will have a negative effect on the experience.

Thanks for your input, your experience is precious information.

Features like your cruise control are easy to add. I like the idea of being able to set or adjust the various limits on the fly too. Especially on prototypes.

Of course, safety needs to be the primary issue. That's why I like the idea of using Bluetooth or some other transceivers (as opposed to the transmitter/receiver pair some use, like R/C), so both ends can keep in touch constantly and respond quickly when there's a problem. That was one of the problems with the Wiichuck. Though I ended up using the accelerometer data as an indicator that things were still okay. If the data stopped changing I assumed there was a failure somewhere, or the rider had dropped the 'chuck. The processor then rolled power back and let the board coast to a stop. Not perfect, but not bad.

As I mentioned before, Bluetooth also opens the door for passing data about other things. Like speed and temperature from the board, and any number of switches/knobs/sliders you might want to put on the hand unit. If you're going to ride in traffic then you'll need a horn on your skateoboard too. Just kidding.

Bluetooth at each end means you'll have a tiny, but very powerful, computer at each end, that will probably be underutilized.

As I write this I'm opening a package I just received from sparkfun.com. Among other goodies there are a couple of zip-lock bags containing jumbles of loose plastic parts labelled: XBOX Trigger Potentiometers. Hmm.

 

[Things]

Has anyone maybe looked at using those controllers like for slotcars as a trigger maybe? Similar trigger style to the RC units, but a lot smaller, cheaper and very easy to hack.

 

[simonjook]

... I really don't think the remote are too bad but there does need to be an "easy mode" for people to learn.

Skateboarding does require some skill and skateboard unceremoniously dump their riders (no matter how skilled) all the time ... adding a motor to that equation isn't going to improve that.

You kind of made my point after assailing it. There does need to be an 'easy mode' for people to learn. ... and then to ride.

Well to put my previous comments into context and there needing to be an easy mode - I meant for a prebuilt board. I think if someone is skilled enough to put this board together they are skilled enough to wind back the acceleration and modify the braking. I find the settings my hobby car ESC (Hobbyking 150A ESC) to be more than sufficient. My setup was my easier than the Fiik board I had tried in the past. To put my experience in context - maybe I'm a little more skilled with the throttle and experience with a board but I have very little positional awareness in my front foot (due to shredding it on a motorbike) and a messed up inner ear so I have well below average balance.

On the controller front - I've played with the nunchuck and come back to the cheap RC controller. Mine is repackaged to make it smaller (I have a 3D printer or 3) and I can confirm the budget HK GT2 controller is annoying to make smaller with such a big PCB in it. I went back to an RC controller because I've found it essential from a safety point of view to be able to go instantly from full throttle to full brake (as someone shoots out of a driveway or runs a stop sign)

The only issue I have with the RC controller is when there is loss of signal - ESCs which respond by braking (all the hobby RC car ESCs seem to fall into this category) can be a real shock when they dive on the brakes and have certainly resulted in me exiting the vehicle in the forward direction at great speed.

 

[beetbocks]

It should be possible to take on of those 20 $ HK car transmitters, take out everything you dont need and put the rest into a new case. I would not trust bluetooth at 20mph on a board anyway. Its not even more expensive than an arduino+wiichuk and does not need programming at all. Papo did something like that.

i have dabbled with the nunchuck also and i keep coming back to the old RC handset-its reailable and is easy to use..its just got this useless wheel (useless to us)on the side - so we are now looking at housing an RC module we have obtained in ABS cover --simple...its all you need really..all the other things people are discusing sound good in theory but all you need is a trigger....

 

[rf]

Nice artwork Richard.

Nice things about an Arduino/Bluetooth solution are:

• small, light batteries, low battery drain
• bi-directional communications for safety, etc.
• easy ability to add as many 'channels' as you desire
• programmability
• very small size
• connect to computer for setup via USB or Bluetooth
• cheap

R/C transmitter has way more power and range than wanted or needed ... and other related problems.

 

[rf]

I have the parts on the way for an Arduino/Bluetooth prototype. Everything but a decent trigger and enclosure.

Hope to have something to test in a couple weeks or so.

Source for a simple finger-cage trigger suitable for mounting on a standard 1/4-inch potentiometer shaft, and centering return spring would be most appreciated. Or a whole assembly including the pot.


Richard

 

[beetbocks]

I have the parts on the way for an Arduino/Bluetooth prototype. Everything but a decent trigger and enclosure.

Hope to have something to test in a couple weeks or so.

Source for a simple finger-cage trigger suitable for mounting on a standard 1/4-inch potentiometer shaft, and centering return spring would be most appreciated. Or a whole assembly including the pot.


Richard

I think that will be your problem,getting a trigger assembly unless you buy 100s or 1000s of them..

 

[leonoxo]

Thanks. I went and ordered the deville wheels, but they won't get shipped for a couple weeks.

I've added some pictures of the latest arduino/nunchuck receiver I made so far. I used an arduino nano to save as much space as possible. I was going to use a tinyduino, but for some reason it didn't work when I wired everything up. I'm using a memorex sidekick wireless nunchuck with the arduino, and you can find it for on amazon right now for $5. I picked up a bunch a while back so that I could experiment with them since they're cheap.

I soldered everything to the nano and epoxied the connections for added security. In the earlier versions of my arduino nunchuck receiver, I used an arduino uno without epoxied connections, and the connections broke off once in a while. On the nano, I also connected 2 sets of wires from the receiver to the arduino in case a connection does happen to break. When certain wires broke off on the uno version, the ESC would still maintain the last speed, and I would need to turn off the ESC to stop. I wasn't going too fast, but if I was I might have been in trouble. On the newest version of the board, I managed to fit all the electronics into the drybox and also added a battery arming switch as a failsafe. I'll get around to adding pictures of the newest setup later on. On the arduino nano the yellow thing is a DIY connector to connect to the ESC. I used pin headers, epoxy and shrink wrap.

Initially, I was planning to use the stock receiver without modifying it. I'm not sure if it's due to the code or the actual reception of the receiver, but the connection between the nunchuck and receiver would cutout for about 100 milliseconds then reconnect at times. Not often, but I always had to remember that it was a possibility when riding at higher speeds. I changed the code and also made an antenna to try to cover both of the potential problems. I changed one of the values in the code, and the signal doesn't cut out anymore. Since the DIY antenna is epoxied, I just left it. The range is about 20-30 ft. I looked up antenna instructions and just used the simplest design for the antenna in the pictures below. I used 18 gauge copper magnet wire and made a 7 coil antenna using a bamboo skewer. The nunchuck receiver has a PCB antenna, so I soldered the DIY antenna to the end of the PCB antenna and epoxied it.

If anyone wants to see the arduino code, I can email the .ino file since I can't upload it here. I found some sites that provided code for the interface between the nunchuck and arduino, and the majority of what I made was for the arduino interfacing with the ESC. The ESC is basically treated like a servo. I configured the code to run like cruise control - you hold the top button on the nunchuck to start moving then flick the joystick up or down to change the speed in steps. The bottom button is the brake but is configured differently. It works like a real brake pedal - when you hold the bottom button, you use the joystick too. The farther you push the stick down, the higher the braking force.

I'll still be testing and playing with the board, so I'll add updates when I can.

Here's a top view of the arduino assembly:

View attachment 3

Here's a view of underneath. I used velcro to keep the arduino in place in the drybox.

View attachment 2

Here's the arduino turned on:

View attachment 1

Is there like in the past arduino code module + memorex sidekick wireless sold together do? I really like your code!

 

[torqueboards]

Someone release a better handheld RC controller. So tired of lugging around a big RC controller and putting it in my backpack to get my hands free. I would so much rather put my RC controller in my backpocket. Example. If I go into a store and/or burger king. I don't want to put my big RC Controller in my backpack and have to unzip it. I'm already carrying my board. I'm already game if you got one. Will send you the money now!

 

[furp]

You could just use velcro battey straps and strap it to your board until you get a better one .

I guess it is not possible to simply use the trigger parts of a normal rc tx for arduino?

beetbocks, your design looks nice, no unneeded stuff on it. Hopefully you'll find the time and suppliers to get it going

 

[rf]

I guess it is not possible to simply use the trigger parts of a normal rc tx for arduino?

Any trigger from an R/C transmitter can probably be adapted easily to an arduino setup. As long as it's not too hard to mount. Don't like throwing the rest away. But if it's cheap enough, I guess that's a solution.

Thanks for cutting through the crap, furp.

I wonder if the trigger/pot assembly in the Hobbyking $15 transmitter is any good. (Or how much that unit costs after shipping.)

If anyone has one please chime in. Otherwise, I'll take a chance and order one.

 

[furp]

Any time
I got the GT2B for the lipo. Once my board is all working and I had some rides I will try changing my controller. Maybe I can find a way to make to nunchuck more comfortable/controllable since I like to shape of it but am not a fan of thumb control.

 

[rf]

Any time
I got the GT2B for the lipo. Once my board is all working and I had some rides I will try changing my controller. Maybe I can find a way to make to nunchuck more comfortable/controllable since I like to shape of it but am not a fan of thumb control.

Cool. Lipo is good in a remote.

Please describe the trigger action and apparent quality of that part of the unit if you can.

Thanks.

Richard

 

[simonjook]

Any time
I got the GT2B for the lipo. Once my board is all working and I had some rides I will try changing my controller. Maybe I can find a way to make to nunchuck more comfortable/controllable since I like to shape of it but am not a fan of thumb control.

Cool. Lipo is good in a remote.

Please describe the trigger action and apparent quality of that part of the unit if you can.

In fact pictures of the insides would be great - especially the PCB and battery with a ruler in them for scale. As I said, anyone wanting a small controller stay away from the GT2 (non B) the PCB is annoyingly big.

If anyone wants some parts like triggers 3D printed for a few bucks let me know - should be easy to post to anywhere. I have a couple of good quality printers and can do PLA, ABS or even Nylon if its useful. I was thinking about trying the 3ch remote from HK too for comparison.

We really need a wiki for comparing parts.

 

[rf]

Been doing more thinking ... always dangerous ...

Has anyone seen or held one of the tiny Boosted hand controllers seen in one of their videos?

I'm thinking that might be easier to replicate than the pistol-grip trigger thingy.

An Arduino Nano board is smaller than a stick of gum. A Bluetooth module is of similar size. A flat-pack Lipo to power it is in the same ballpark. The whole mess will likely fit in a matchbox. Careful, you might lose it in your pocket.


Richard

 

[simonjook]

I kinda cloned one of the recent thumb controlled model of Boosted and just wired it to the Tx in my backpack. It drove me nuts ... I tried it sprung and it was too easy to let go while riding resulting in shock deceleration .. unsprung I couldn't find zero easily. Also it was really hard (maybe their intent) to move from full throttle to heavy braking in an emergency. I think someone really need to try one to see how they have programmed the behaviour because the way I assumed it worked wasn't very pleasant.

On using bluetooth - I found it very hard to keep a reliable connection ... keep in mind this is with the memorex nunchuck with an antenna upgrade. Everything EMI noisy I drove past caused an issue. I think a good solution from someone with the skills to virtually start from scratch with connection reliability oriented components is required. It's gone beyond my skills and I've given up on BT and am just working on customise RC controllers for myself.

 

[rf]

On using bluetooth - I found it very hard to keep a reliable connection ... keep in mind this is with the memorex nunchuck with an antenna upgrade. Everything EMI noisy I drove past caused an issue. I think a good solution from someone with the skills to virtually start from scratch with connection reliability oriented components is required. It's gone beyond my skills and I've given up on BT and am just working on customise RC controllers for myself.

Reliable connection shouldn't be a problem no matter which tech you use. We're talking about a distance of 3 feet. There was probably a noise or power problem in the unit you used. My Nyko Kama Wiichuck has lots of problems, but reliable connection isn't one of them. It's always been solid to 30+ feet.

Haven't received my general purpose Bluetooth modules to try yet, but reports are that they're fairly solid too.

There are plenty of tricks available to nail down a solid connection when the distance is so small.

 

[rf]

I kinda cloned one of the recent thumb controlled model of Boosted and just wired it to the Tx in my backpack. It drove me nuts ... I tried it sprung and it was too easy to let go while riding resulting in shock deceleration .. unsprung I couldn't find zero easily. Also it was really hard (maybe their intent) to move from full throttle to heavy braking in an emergency. I think someone really need to try one to see how they have programmed the behaviour because the way I assumed it worked wasn't very pleasant.

The Boosted unit and others could provide a form of speed stability or cruise-control through friction. If you squeeze the control a little, or lay your thumb across the control surface and the frame you can tie the two together somewhat and keep accelerator input relatively constant. Perhaps even across bumpy terrain. (Which you definitely can't do with a joystick.) Cruise control without the odd user interface or learning curve.

Simple, reliable center-return spring is still the elusive item.

 

[simonjook]

I don't think I had any significant noise issues above those that the motor and ESC are always going to generate - I tested with that in mind but I don't think any of these Wii nunchucks are that great a starting point. I researched after my issues and lots of users complain about issues with the signal wise just using them for their intended purpose so they are probably a bad starting point in hindsight.

 

[rf]

I agree the Wiichucks are a bad starting point.

 

[rf]

Whoa.

Received a new ESC in the mail Friday. Hobbywing EZRUN-150A-PRO Brushless car ESC.

Mounted the ESC today, set it up and went for a ride. Not bad. Lots of settings. The softest start mode is almost soft enough. Not quite. Brakes weren't too bad. Just noisey. Loud whine. Braking with one rear wheel is definitely not enough. During braking the wheel will sometimes stutter and jump ... not good. Braking from the rear only is pretty ineffective anyway.

I live on a steep hill. Lots of ups and downs around the neighborhood. I rode way down a long hill with the brakes applied most of the way. Worked okay. Nothing got very warm. Turned it around and headed back up the hill. Motor definitely won't start uphill without a kick. But goes well after that. Went up about 100 yards or so of steep hill where it got even steeper. Was moving along okay, I thought. Noticed I had a fair bit of throttle left. Slowly squeezed on the rest and the board acted like there was hardly a hill there. Zoom! Impressive little motor. (Forgot to bring my GPS to record speed.)

At the top of the hill the motor was pretty hot. And the Ammeter had recorded a peak of 58amps. Hmm. Before that my top readings were more like 32amps. This was with 6S Lipo battery pack. Motor needs more cooling or less speed on the uphill, I guess. Perhaps a different ESC timing advance setting.

ESC http://www.valuehobby.com/hobbywing-ezrun-150a-pro.html
Motor http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22036__ntm_prop_drive_50_60_270kv_2400w.html
Radio http://www.valuehobby.com/flysky-gt2.html
Batteries http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9514__Turnigy_5000mAh_2S_30C_Lipo_Pack.html times 3
Meter http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html