Bubba's 1st Bike Build

swbluto,

My setup is using 4 6s 5000mah zippy packs in a 12S 10000mah configuration. I will also put one of the 6s packs on the charger and let it calculate internal resistance and. From my skim of your first post in the referenced thread I gather that my charger's calculation of internal resistance will not be the same. I will post the results just for a reference. It will take me some time to digest the information in that other thread.

Do your calculation and tell us how they rank. It will not hurt my feelings if they would be better used as a paper weight.

Bubba.
 
I have found most lipos have strange behavior when it comes to voltage sag. High end Lipos have virtually no sag (name brand 30C packs). However, the bargain Lipos tend to sag more. However, the IR is not consistant on many packs I have owned. For instance, I may see a 3 volt drop at say, 50 amps, but at 100 amps I may only see a 4 or 5 volt drop, not the 6 volts I would have exected. Not sure why that is.

Also, Lipos have a surface voltage (not sure what the technical term would be) that is maybe a couple volts. So, they will tend to drop the first volt or two very quickly, then level off.

I am not an EE. So, I am not familiar with the math related to this. But, I have seen this with my packs as I monitor my Eagle Tree.

Oh, I second the JohnRobHolmes comment. Great guy, great prices! I have two HV110s from him.

SWbluto,

these controllers are very cooling sensitive. If you have plenty of airflow, they can really put out alot of power for an extended period of time.

Matt
 
dontsendbubbamail said:
swbluto,

My setup is using 4 6s 5000mah zippy packs in a 12S 10000mah configuration. I will also put one of the 6s packs on the charger and let it calculate internal resistance and. From my skim of your first post in the referenced thread I gather that my charger's calculation of internal resistance will not be the same.
Click to expand...

It's just a rough guesstimate. I noticed that the voltage drop and current wasn't as linear as I would expect as a constant internal resistance model would imply, so I wouldn't doubt I might be off by 50 or so milliohms.

Anyways, SDT = R*Ah/V = (.1 ohms)*(10Ah)/(12S*3.7v) = 22.5 millihours = 81 seconds.

The one test result available for lipo is this one...

Zippy Flightmax 5ah 20C cell LiPo: 5 milli ohm * 5 Ah / 3.7 V = 7 milli hours or 25.2 seconds.

and yours seems to be about 3 times higher, which would kind of imply your zippys are rated at 7C (20/3 ~= 7). Maybe they have to "break in"? Well, whatever it is, it seems this calculation would definitely support your suspicion that your batteries might be worse than expected, however, I can't deduce it's the cells' fault. It might be a poorly soldered connection or something else.
 
I did not read this entire thread but I can grantee that those zippy packs are NOT 7C. They are 15C or 20C as rated.
In the 10Ah configuration I pull 150A off my 12S packs all the time. No problem. Few volts of drop.
Check the test setup.

I have never noticed them needing to break in either.

I have 12 of those 6S 5000mAh packs.
Some 15C no label
Some 20 and 25C Zippy R

The no label actually hold more than 5000mah and they are tough as nails.

I rode my X5 hard, 88.8V and no current limit. Would spike to 200A on launch. I have over a thousand hard-ass gangster miles on those packs. :)

I stand by the Zippy rating.

-methods
 
I feel a lot more comfortable at and above 25 mph on the bike then with the trailer. Trailers work fine below 25 mph. 40 mph is a bit scary, but speed is addictive. The wife had me doing chores today, but I hope to gear it up and go for a speed run tomorrow or in the near future. Folks with multiple motors will be getting an insane ride. It is a bit ass heavy with the steel rack and batteries on the back but handles very nice. I would like to get the batteries within the frame as HAL9000v2.0 has done. Sometimes when I accelerate and I am at speed, it seems go into a type of fast jerky speed up slow down oscillation. It may be loosing sync or some kind of mechanical feedback oscillation. Currently I have the timing set to normal and will try one of the other setting when I get time. Even though the motor is technically rated for 12S it still tends to run hot. 10S is about max for this motor. To that end I will be buying some 4s zippys to go with my 6s zippys. That will give me a total of 20 ah. As for the CC 110 HV esc, I think it needs a bigger heat sink. So far I have only blown one 85 amp controller. Over all I am happy with the results. Only time will tell if the motor and controller will go the distance. As for now this build is finished.

For my next build I will be using my smaller Hobby City motor and try adding hall sensors to it. Methods has sold me one of his 6 fet controllers at a more then fair price. This may go on one of my road bikes or I may have to buy a single recumbent for the experiment. I have a tandem recumbent that I could use. Just think of all the batteries I could add if I remove the second seat.

Bubba
 
It may have to do with the PID loop your arduino uses(Are you using current limiting?). I noticed that changing some of the parameters on my arduino controller just slightly caused the controller to noticeably oscillate between high and low at start-up, but changing them again got rid of the noticeable oscillations.
 
Bubba,

Move your timing to low. That will accomplish three things;

#1 The heat will drop.
#2 Syncing will not be an issue.
#3 Efficiency will rise.

I ran into this with my Plettenberg. Also, the higher the pole count, the more critical this is.

I believe Castle recommends all outrunners should be run low timing advance.........

I hope that helps. :D

Matt
 
recumpence said:
I believe Castle recommends all outrunners should be run low timing advance.........
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I read in the set-up manual.
 
I will give the low timing a try. For some reason I was thinking that my cc 85 hv liked normal timing. Today I went for a distance ride and got 20.6 miles out of 7.8 ah with the 12s Zippys . This was with about 30 % pedaling and a couple of speed runs. Average speed was 17 mph and max was 40.1 mph. Who needs gears when you can blast up a steep hill at 36 mph pulling 71 amps. I will provide the Eagle Tree data when it stops being contrary. For some reason it will not connect to the computer. This has happen before and I had to reinstall the software.

Bubba
 
I changed the timing to low and everything seems to work. Didn't notice and syncing issues. Over all the avg amps was higher, avg speed was faster (18 vs 17), and avg temp was a few degs lower.

Shout out if you know of a good heat sink to add to my controller.

Bubba
 

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I just received my CC HV 110 today as well as the caps that recumpence suggested. I was just wondering if you could tell me how to wire in my caps and how many I should use. I haven't looked at them very much yet, but I definitely want to do it correctly the first time and I especially like the idea of not messing with my circuit boards!

Also, since I haven't looked at the instructions yet, I was just wondering if it is difficult to switch the controller into low timing mode. Do I need a programming card?

Thanks,

Daniel
 
I just put three 1000uF caps on a perf board, bent the leads over and soldered them together. This left the first cap with its leads extending beyond the edge of the perf board. A slit was cut in the insulation of the battery wires as close to the controller as reasonably possible. The appropriate capacitor lead was wrapped around the battery wire and soldered. This holds one end of the perf board in place. Copper wire ties the other end of the perf board to the battery leads . Liquid electrical tape was used to insulated the exposed wires and then regular electrical tape was added to keep thing from wiggling.

It is very easy to change the setting with the program and programming cable (~ $25).

Bubba
 
Thanks for the response. I actually found a link on a forum that showed how to wire in capacitors, so I used that as a guide. I wound up going for a late night test run in Boone on my bike and had a blast. The first test run I took was with a volume knob style potentiometer, but last night (3:00am) I had the Magura twist grip and the CC HV110. I can't believe how much torque that motor is. I didn't get a chance to tune it yet, but I think I'll invest in that Castle Link. Thanks for your help along the way regarding my build!

Daniel
 
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