bypass broken throttle

[Kenny1]

Hi,
This is my first time here. I just put an electric conversion kit on my bike last week and love it.
The twist throttle broke when I was far from home. Stuck on like 1/2 power. Its under warrenty and another is on its way. Its a hall effect motor.

My question is can I cut wires to throttle in an emergency and splice a couple togother so atleast throttle is stuck on high? Which wires? I have break cut off's to stop motor.

on website i bought kit from it says this about hall effect motors.."As the throttle is twisted, "Hall Effects Sensors" read the amount of voltage, and send this amount of voltage to the controller. 5 volts means the controller does nothing: sends no pulses to the hub motor, 0 volts means the controller sends electrical pulses to the hub motor as fast as it can."

Does this mean I just cut all wires to throttle and throttle will be sending a 0 volt signal so motor will be stuck on high?

Thanks,
Kenny

 

[heathyoung]

Thats a bad idea. Get a potentiometer (say a 5K linear pot). They have 3 terminals. If you put the throttle wire on the middle terminal, the +5V feed on the left terminal and the 0V on the right-hand terminal, you have a 5-0V variable speed control that will work temporarily OK.

Edit - sorry - potentiometer is an older name, also known as a variable resistor.

 

[Kenny1]

ok thanks,
i see radio shack sells those but im not gonna have tools to connect and mount on the road. lets say im on the road and throttle bust again, i hear there pretty flimsy and break often. whats the quick on the road fix to get full throttle. can i cut and twist 2 wires togother for fast fix to get me home? what color wires? my brakes have cut off to motor to control speed and stop. looking for emergency fix to get home next time it happens and get full speed now till replacement arrives.

 

[AussieJester]

ok thanks,
i see radio shack sells those but im not gonna have tools to connect and mount on the road..

Think ahead ... cut all your throttle wires and rejoin using spade connectors
that will fit directly onto the potentiometer tabs. Then when your throttle dies
its simple as pulling wires apart at the spade terminals and sliding them onto the potentiometer tabs.
No tools need .... :wink: Alternatively Ghetto way...solder wires onto the potentiometer when
you break down cut the throttle wires (pocket knife or teeth) strip end wires
twist onto potentiometer wires...

KiM

 

[dnmun]

why not just fix the hall sensor throttle? just reposition the magnet and reglue it.

 

[amberwolf]

I have definitely got to get going on that aluminum throttle idea....

 

[Kenny1]

thanks all.
ok i'm going to buy one of these potentiometer/ variable resistor on way home from work. can someone tell me what color wires go where on it?

thanks

 

[Lyen]

thanks all.
ok i'm going to buy one of these potentiometer/ variable resistor on way home from work. can someone tell me what color wires go where on it?

thanks

You should wire as follow in an emergency situation.

red > 10Kohm resistor > green

or

red > 5Kohm potentiometer > 4.7Kohm resistor > green

The same can be applied to the Magura® 5k Ohm twist throttle.

 

[John in CR]

Many controllers won't accept the full 5 volt signal as valid input. That's to protect from a wide open throttle resulting from a short. That's why you probably can't get away with just splicing the +5 and throttle signal wires together, which would be quite dangerous anyway. Hopefully your ebike has ebrakes that cut motor power when you brake. If you have a pretty low power rig, that could work for you, and find out now with the wheel of the ground if just connecting the +5 and signal wire makes it go. Then you could forgo carrying the pot with you for an emergency you hope won't occur again anyway, and use the ebrake as the throttle interrupt to get home. The pot will act pretty much like just an on/off anyway.

 

[Kenny1]

thanks everyone,
A new throttle is on the way. I think im going to keep a spare in bike bag just in case this happens again. Right now im stuck on 1/2 power and I just had a very slow, very long ride home from work. Radio shack is too far and the local auto parts store had nothing like part above. ill be fine when replacement gets here but untill then Id really like to know if i can cut wires to throttle, twist certain colors togother to get full power? I have a key start to kill motor when parked and both brakes have motor cut off switches in them so i can go slow and brake just fine even if stuck on full power. this is a pegasus kit, brushless hall effect motor and throttle says wuxing on it. I'm afraid to cut wires right now unless someone is certain it will work. if it dont im stuck with out a way to work.

Thank you

 

[dnmun]

i repeat, why not just take the throttle apart and reglue the magnet in the correct position? a lot simpler than rewiring the throttle, imho.

 

[Kenny1]

I will try to take it apart and fix it. I just dont know how and dont want to break it farther. When replacement come I'll try to get it apart and fix it.

 

[Kenny1]

Hello again.
I thought id close this thread with a fix. I didnt not try a potentiometer. I hear they might not work on brushless hall effect. throttle was too damaged from playing with it to try to repair. whell I got another throttle and it broke too ( there really cheap and not durable). They seem to break and get stuck at 1/2 power. I cut wires to old broken throttle and twisted all wires, a suggestion from another site. nada, nothing. Tried red to black, nothing. I could not get 1st broken throttle to come apart so I got forsefull on it ripping it a part. There was one half moon shaped magnet not two and a chip like sensor. I re attached the wires to the sensor and taped it to one end on magnet. (i'm guessing one end is slow and other is full power). Walla Full power! Now while awaiting a 3rd throttle atleast i have full power and can go fast instead on creep along and take forever to get place to place. Once 3rd throttle arrives bike will be back to normal but im going to keep my taped sensor to magnet fix in my bike bag and it when this happens again I have a quick easy fix to get bike to full power to get home.

Warnings I have a key on and off and motor kill switches in my brakes that allow me to control speed and stop. Do Not use this if you do not have brake cut offs on your bike. Full power only on a bike without motor cut offs in your brakes could be very dangerious!

These throttles break easy. I might try potentiometer wired before throttle as suggested, I seen this tried on a site as a cruise control and it didnt work. I have also seen crystalyte cruise controls that might work too. then when next throttle breaks just use cruise control buttons. Does anyone know for sure if the crystalyte cruise control will work wired before throttle on a brushless hall effect controler with out cruise control conector and how to wire one inbetween controler and throttle?

thank you all very much,
Kenny

 

[John in CR]

Did you order a half twist throttle this time? It will probably stand up to your abuse better than a full grip throttle, because much of your force is applied to the handlebar in the normal manner since half of that right hand grip is a normal bike grip.

 

[Kenny1]

No John i did not. Your right tho. I didnt think of that. I think thats why throttles keep breaking. Thanks for advice.

I think I might start new thread to see if crystalyte cruise control will work too and how to wire it before throttle.

 

[dnmun]

most throttles break when the magnet falls off the plastic bracket it is glued to inside the throttle. the hot glue doesn't always stick for long so you have to mount it back in the same spot with a dab of silicon rubber, RTV, or gorilla glue even.

the sensor is called a ratiometric hall effect sensor. usually a chinese copy or real honeywell SS495, less than 75 cents as i recall in lot sizes.

they were backordered when i looked at mouser so i had to get the SS495A2 which they had in stock and cost a little more.

you can adjust the sensitivity of the throttle by twisting the leads of the ss495 to move it closer or farther away from the magnet at rest.

some remove the return spring also to make the throttle effortless to twist, add a rubber band for the return to compensate for loss of the spring.

 

[scriewy]

that's strange kenny1 that the pot didnt work for you.
I red about pot mod and after reading your thread decided to finaly go and buy a pot to try this but for different reason.

i got 5k 10k pots, looked with DMM for the output after the throttle back to controller as logic said this is the signal i must disrupt, hooked pot inline, you use middle and any side leg, and it worked, but the response range is very short not across whole turn of the knob.

i wanted to have fixed throttle for driving without hands, but now i like removing the spring idea.

 

[John in CR]

that's strange kenny1 that the pot didnt work for you.
I red about pot mod and after reading your thread decided to finaly go and buy a pot to try this but for different reason.

i got 5k 10k pots, looked with DMM for the output after the throttle back to controller as logic said this is the signal i must disrupt, hooked pot inline, you use middle and any side leg, and it worked, but the response range is very short not across whole turn of the knob.

i wanted to have fixed throttle for driving without hands, but now i like removing the spring idea.

I don't think he tried red (+5v) to the throttle sense wire. Black to red is just a short.

 

[texaspyro]

i got 5k 10k pots, looked with DMM for the output after the throttle back to controller as logic said this is the signal i must disrupt, hooked pot inline, you use middle and any side leg, and it worked, but the response range is very short not across whole turn of the knob.

Pots come in two types: linear taper and audio (or logarithmic) taper. The resistance of a linear taper pot changes evenly with its rotation angle. Audio taper pots have a logarithmic resistance curve... the resistance typically doubles (or halves) every time the pot shaft moves through half its remaining motion space. If your pot's resistance curve does not match the hall effect output curve, the response range will be screwed up. I suspect that you needed a linear taper pot and got an audio taper pot.

 

[Kenny1]

this throttle arrived

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230412941404&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

it says 36volt hall effect which my bike is. i wired black to black, red to red and green to green per instructions. my throttle connector to controler is 3 wires, red, black, green. the yellow is to be left off for 3 wire connectors ( its battery level).

No combination works even if i connect the yellow to my existing battery meter and light up lights on throttle.

Shop i bought it from is closed for weekend but id like to get it working now.
I have a digital multimeter but i dont really know how to use. if someone can talk me thro testing the throttle i will.
could this not really be a hall effect throttle as advertized?
Can anyone help?

 

[Kenny1]

ok i know you all told me so. i finally went to a radio shack i got a 5k linear potentiometer.
works great. i still dont have even the new throttle working but i like pot meter. kinda like cruise control.

so now along with question above about 4 wire throttle to 3 wire connector i'd like to know how to wire pot meter before throttle with a switch so i can go from one to the other ( or in my case from broken throttles to pot meter). id like to set it up as cruise control by switch and/ or secondary throttle when next throttle breaks by same switch. im a electronics idiot so please be detailed. i saw somewhere a pic of a hack to reg cruise control where all 3 wires from controler were split to each throttle and cruise control. would this work on pot meter w/o a switch? like set pot meter to zero, use throttle to speed i want, set pot meter to same speed and let go of throttle. would it be same speed? if i then applied more throttle would it increase speed then if released go back to pot meter speed? that would be nicer than a switch if it worked. if that wont work what kinda switch on what wire would select between the 2. an im an electronics idiot, be specific on wires from my controler and to rest. my controler throttle wires are red, black, green.

i still have a new throttle mentioned above id like to get working too.

this site and all those helping me have been an great, great help.
thank you all.

 

[scriewy]

i am an electronic dumb ass, coming to the rescue or something alike ! finally got spare time to write.

i'l tell you what I DID and the results, but i am not sure if it's the right way.

first off texaspyro mentioned linear and logarithmic pots, after few days i went back to the store and said, hey you sneaky electrician did you sell me a logarithmic knob :? ?

we checked what i held in hand and it was a linear, so now the plot thickens

so it was a short response range at the turn of the knob after all not cos it was logarithmic, not through out the whole turn, even though it WAS linear pot. i did notice that the 10k was a itty bitty smoother than 5k.

BUT ! i connected the pot inline with the black cable (you hear kenny1), black cable is through which the electricity goes back to the controller.
later i though huh, and decided to hook it inline with green cable, cos it's called signal cable so it struck me maybe that's the signal i should play with, through green cable, controller receives electricity back from the throttle (kenny1).

when i hooked the pot inline with green (signal cable) it started responding smooth through out the WHOLE turn of the knob, 5k was not even enough to cover the whole speed, i put 10k range motor spun faster but still less than 50% of full speed, i bought 47k but only tested it on the black cable, and i think it's bad, bad using the black cable, also it was responding nutty at some point it'l suddenly get full speed, if continue turning pot it'l stop, turn more and it'l respond smoother, kinda a dead spot where you dont expect it to be cos you already into the turn.

at some point motor jilted and nothing my controller stoped working, i craped my pants disconnected all cables and went to shower, came back hooked all back except the DEVIL pot, controller didn't die.

so we should hook the pot between green (signal) cable ?

noticed the signal cable voltage is lower than black cable in both cont (clyte 72 40A / ecrazyman 36-72 20A)

you don't need to twist the throttle kenny1 to cirtain point and then twist pot so it'l be like cruise control, the moment you cut green cable and put the pot between its enough to turn the pot and motor starts spinning, if you turn the pot and at this point you twist throttle as well, motor turns faster, theres no delay like you'd think you should catch up with the pot speed by blank twist then twist throttle a bit over pots speed to go faster, their signals add up.

dont know what will happen if you connect pot directly to cables red and signal, or red and black, controllers are sensitive, burn easy if poking them wrong, so i didn't try that.

if you need pics of how it's hooked i'l make some.

 

[rkosiorek]

No John i did not. Your right tho. I didnt think of that. I think thats why throttles keep breaking. Thanks for advice.

I think I might start new thread to see if crystalyte cruise control will work too and how to wire it before throttle.

someone alredy beat you to the thread about tgew crystalyte cruise control. work is already done.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17364

rick

 

[bandaro]

dont know what will happen if you connect pot directly to cables red and signal, or red and black, controllers are sensitive, burn easy if poking them wrong, so i didn't try that.

if you need pics of how it's hooked i'l make some.

i was wondering this myself, did you ever find an answer? or anything?

If its not too much trouble then pics would be nice, just wondering how other people have mounted their throttles and what looks neat before i start mine...

 

[mcgyverism]

I have been having the same problem as Kenny.
I have:
2 - 12VDC batteries, 18AH
1 -24v 500 watt speed controller (MAX 30 amp) SPD-24500R
1 - 350 watt 24v motor MOT-24350G
1 - Half effect thumb throttle THR-65

This is all mounted on a wagon, not built for speed. Motor is a gear reduction motor. Everything was working fine, then the throttle only works at 1/2 speed no matter if you turned it all the way or not. I tested the throttle, and it was broken. Had a replacement sent. After using the new throttle for about 10 minutes of total use, I turned my key switch off. An hour later I turned the key to the forward mode and the key tumblers in the switch came apart. I put them back in, turned to the forward position, and the wagon started moving at half speed again. Re-tested the new throttle, and it is broken as well. I can't see the key switch causing the problem,so why am I going through throttles?
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