Chainline TSDZ8

[LeoSuperMoin]

I currently use the stock chainring on my tsdz8 and there is not room to move it even a mm further inwards because of the frame.

I have a 7 speed cassette and my chain is currently centered right in between the gears 5 and 6. This makes the gears 1 and 2 unusable and my 3rd gear sometimes falls off. I saw that some people modified their 9 speed cassettes (subrace csm980) and removed a few cogs. I would lile to remove the cogs for gear 2, 4 and 6 which would leave with 1, 3, 5 and 7 which is enough for an ebike. Is something like that possible on a 7 speed.

I am also getting wheels which are hg 9 speed and up compatible so if nothing else works I could switch to a 9 speed.

 

[Sturmey]

I have done this on a TSDZ2 with a traditional freewheel giving me 14,16,19,24 & 34T at 5mm (7speed) spacing.. This video might interest you.

 

[OlderGiantFan]

Good vid, good idea too. I would have like to have seen the guy change gears a few times though. Modern Chains change up smoothly by catching on little ramps on the adjacent sprocket, with such a big jump between some of those I wonder what the effect is. A little slower? A little clunkier?

 

[E-HP]

Good vid, good idea too. I would have like to have seen the guy change gears a few times though. Modern Chains change up smoothly by catching on little ramps on the adjacent sprocket, with such a big jump between some of those I wonder what the effect is. A little slower? A little clunkier?

Next time you go for a ride, take note of which cogs you use most and which you use least.

I just removed the latter and added a spacer to compensate. I think I removed 3rd gear from my 8 speed. I had replaced my old XTR cassette and with a cheap 8 speed Shimano with steel cogs, which is now 7, and it still shifts great.

 

[OlderGiantFan]

Next time you go for a ride, take note of which cogs you use most and which you use least.

I don't have a chainline issue myself, thankfully, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice any sprocket unnecessarily. I use them all to keep me in the sweet spot.

 

[E-HP]

I don't have a chainline issue myself, thankfully, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice any sprocket unnecessarily. I use them all to keep me in the sweet spot.

Depends on the frame. But ya, I agree the motor has a super narrow rpm range of useable torque, so you need to shift a lot. So much shifting that it takes away from the enjoyment, and narrows the types of riding I use it for.

 

[OlderGiantFan]

Depends on the frame. But ya, I agree the motor has a super narrow rpm range of useable torque, so you need to shift a lot. So much shifting that it takes away from the enjoyment, and narrows the types of riding I use it for.

I know what you mean. I spend more time on my pushbikes then the ebike and I'm always shifting there, even on relatively flat terrain. But that shifting is different, no lag, just a little backing off on the leg input power. It's like it's seamless almost. I use the ebike 98% on flats and avoid steep hills if at all possible.

When you speak of the usable torque, what rpm range are you referring to? I sort of do it by sense, by 'feel'. I typically coast along at 25km/h (15mph) and select the gear that keeps the motor spinning in the upper half of its rpm range. Nowhere near max though, if I open the throttle up it will run up to 35km/h, fighting the serious wind resistance. I have tried going down a gear or so and running the motor near flat-out to maintain the same 25km/h speed but it just doesn't seem right to me? It's all very subjective in my mind, like riding high capacity motorcycles, you can push along in 5th gear through corners but dropping to 4th while maintaining the same speeds seems to give me more control, feels more natural. That way if something odd occurs on the road I have some extra torque instantly available. That obviously consumes more fuel, but who cares? On the ebike though range is important to me cause I can't stop and fill up I like to get the maximum range I can, which means the most efficient engine rpms I suppose?

I just looked at that link you posted about "motorcycle hill" All sitting down, Crazy stuff! Just imagine if one of those guys had have moved his handlebars forward and stood up, he'd have killed the competition.

 

[2old]

I must be too easy to please and initially ran my BBS02-equipped bike with 11-17-28 gears, spaced 8-speed. The "17" was straight, so not much deflection with either change.

 

[n00b]

Good vid, good idea too. I would have like to have seen the guy change gears a few times though. Modern Chains change up smoothly by catching on little ramps on the adjacent sprocket, with such a big jump between some of those I wonder what the effect is. A little slower? A little clunkier?

Uhh, I been running a BB03 with gears, and idk how many sprockets get skipped, but multiple do.
I got it down to 6 clicks per shift until top.
You can't just go through each and every individual gear, that's not realistic.

 

[LeoSuperMoin]

I am getting a new rear Wheel since my current one failed spectacularly while riding and made me kiss the pavement. (The axle bearings broke at 30kph in a roundabout)
My new one will be a 27,5 inch rim with a 11speed hg hub. I am thinking about the best thing to do to improve the chainline. Should I go for a 10 or 11 speed since the chain deflection is better or should I stick with a 7 speed and a spacer.

Does putting a 7 speed cassette on the 11 speed hub push the cassette further out compared to a 7speed hub. With the 7 speed one the chain was straight in between 5th and 6th gear.

Anyways I borrowed a rear wheel for the next few weeks so I can ride in the meantime and mounted my new tire (Schwalbe johnny watts 27,5x2,35). I already have another 28/29 inch rim laying around and made it ready but I can only fit 1,85 inch tires with that size.

 

[n00b]

I am getting a new rear Wheel since my current one failed spectacularly while riding and made me kiss the pavement. (The axle bearings broke at 30kph in a roundabout)
My new one will be a 27,5 inch rim with a 11speed hg hub. I am thinking about the best thing to do to improve the chainline. Should I go for a 10 or 11 speed since the chain deflection is better or should I stick with a 7 speed and a spacer.

Does putting a 7 speed cassette on the 11 speed hub push the cassette further out compared to a 7speed hub. With the 7 speed one the chain was straight in between 5th and 6th gear.

Anyways I borrowed a rear wheel for the next few weeks so I can ride in the meantime and mounted my new tire (Schwalbe johnny watts 27,5x2,35). I already have another 28/29 inch rim laying around and made it ready but I can only fit 1,85 inch tires with that size.

A cluster with more gears will get you a lower gear or 2.
I am uh..using an adapter for regular chainrings and spacers with long bolts to move the chainring in 5mm or so and a 10 speed cassette. If you have an 11-12 spd hub, you could just put a spacer behind the whole cluster to move it out with a 10-spd cluster.
This setup I'm using will go to 38:41, but the chainline there is pretty bad, so I have it locked out to 38:38.
With a bigger battery, you have to reduce the front chainring size and wind it up before hitting the throttle.
If you put a 7-speed cassette on there, there may be room for a couple of spacers or sprockets behind it to push the cassette out further and make your chainline better. Probably the biggest rear you'll get with that is 41T, and the 2nd lowest will be 32T.
I'm Using a Sunrace 11-52T cluster on the rear.
It makes it to the 2nd biggest, but that's kinda fonky, so I lock it (the derailleur) out to the 38T before that sprocket.
Now I can use a couple gears on the sidewalk whereas before it was just goose what ya got and you can't go any faster or slower and your chainline is very inwards.
You can use bigger chainrings if not 72v. It's up to you and your knees.
Pic of the spacers:

Pic of the cluster:

Hope this helps. I have the 11 locked out, too. No need to burn the thing up. (motor)
Edit. The pics reveal starting gears are 38-36.

 

[OlderGiantFan]

Uhh, I been running a BB03 with gears, and idk how many sprockets get skipped, but multiple do.
I got it down to 6 clicks per shift until top.
You can't just go through each and every individual gear, that's not realistic.

True, on most of my rides I move swiftly pass multiple sprockets, but there are certain slopes on my rides and they are quite long, and there is just one gear that will give me the maximum speed without putting undue load on the motor. I calculate this by switching to PAS 2 and peddling through the gears until I feel a reasonable load come on the pedals then I switch to throttle only and power away up the slope at about 3/4 throttle. I'm a throttle only rider basically, I get my exercise on the non-powered bikes I ride a lot more often. I might be getting anal with the gear thing but the battery and motor are old and I want to get max range out of the battery on throttle while putting a minimal load on the motor, if that makes sense.

The process is like the way I fish, I don't really care if I catch fish, I just love all the tinkering with tackle, with tracers and knots, lures and floats. It's the technical side that really interests me.
I don't catch many fish though

 

[n00b]

True, on most of my rides I move swiftly pass multiple sprockets, but there are certain slopes on my rides and they are quite long, and there is just one gear that will give me the maximum speed without putting undue load on the motor. I calculate this by switching to PAS 2 and peddling through the gears until I feel a reasonable load come on the pedals then I switch to throttle only and power away up the slope at about 3/4 throttle. I'm a throttle only rider basically, I get my exercise on the non-powered bikes I ride a lot more often. I might be getting anal with the gear thing but the battery and motor are old and I want to get max range out of the battery on throttle while putting a minimal load on the motor, if that makes sense.

The process is like the way I fish, I don't really care if I catch fish, I just love all the tinkering with tackle, with tracers and knots, lures and floats. It's the technical side that really interests me.
I don't catch many fish though

I've found it's better to let it spin faster and not have to use all the torque it can.
Uses less battery that way, too.

 

[OlderGiantFan]

I've found it's better to let it spin faster and not have to use all the torque it can.
Uses less battery that way, too.

Yes, but what's fast, and what's the sweet spot? 3/4 throttle is pretty fast and the current draw and torque at a PAS-2 level isn't loading the motor much. Without some realtime current drain display, which I don't have, I just have to go by my sense of things.

 

[LeoSuperMoin]

A cluster with more gears will get you a lower gear or 2.
I am uh..using an adapter for regular chainrings and spacers with long bolts to move the chainring in 5mm or so and a 10 speed cassette. If you have an 11-12 spd hub, you could just put a spacer behind the whole cluster to move it out with a 10-spd cluster.
This setup I'm using will go to 38:41, but the chainline there is pretty bad, so I have it locked out to 38:38.
With a bigger battery, you have to reduce the front chainring size and wind it up before hitting the throttle.
If you put a 7-speed cassette on there, there may be room for a couple of spacers or sprockets behind it to push the cassette out further and make your chainline better. Probably the biggest rear you'll get with that is 41T, and the 2nd lowest will be 32T.
I'm Using a Sunrace 11-52T cluster on the rear.
It makes it to the 2nd biggest, but that's kinda fonky, so I lock it (the derailleur) out to the 38T before that sprocket.
Now I can use a couple gears on the sidewalk whereas before it was just goose what ya got and you can't go any faster or slower and your chainline is very inwards.
You can use bigger chainrings if not 72v. It's up to you and your knees.
Pic of the spacers:
View attachment 388185
Pic of the cluster:
View attachment 388186
Hope this helps. I have the 11 locked out, too. No need to burn the thing up. (motor)
Edit. The pics reveal starting gears are 38-36.

After going to my local bikeshop i got a really good deal on a new rear wheel so i decided to try some things before going all out on the high end stuff

Well after getting the new rear wheel i decided to try out the decathlon 9speed shifter, rear derraileur and cassete. And i am very surprised by how well it works. I also took a new 9 speed kmc chain and a cncd aluminium front chainring and i can use all my gears without issues now. Even tho the new front chainring move the chain another cm out and makes the chainline even worse it yields better results.

I feel like one of the big contributors is the rear derrailleur that although it doesn't have a clutch has really high tension. It's stronger than a shadow derrailleur with the clutch off but a tad bit weaker compared to the clutch on. All in all it was a really good upgrade from the previous setup.
The cost also wasn't too high:
Rear Wheel: 60€
New tube: 8€
New Schwalbe Johnny Watts 27,5x2,35: 25€ (also from the local bike shop)
New Casette: 18€
New shifter: 16€
New rear derrailleur: 25€
new chain: 14€
front chain ring: 24€

total: 190€

 

[manray]

I am getting a new rear Wheel since my current one failed spectacularly while riding and made me kiss the pavement. (The axle bearings broke at 30kph in a roundabout)
My new one will be a 27,5 inch rim with a 11speed hg hub. I am thinking about the best thing to do to improve the chainline. Should I go for a 10 or 11 speed since the chain deflection is better or should I stick with a 7 speed and a spacer.

Does putting a 7 speed cassette on the 11 speed hub push the cassette further out compared to a 7speed hub. With the 7 speed one the chain was straight in between 5th and 6th gear.

Anyways I borrowed a rear wheel for the next few weeks so I can ride in the meantime and mounted my new tire (Schwalbe johnny watts 27,5x2,35). I already have another 28/29 inch rim laying around and made it ready but I can only fit 1,85 inch tires with that size.

I have a rear wheel for sale that solves the chainline problem and also provides for a zero dish wheel (equal spoke length and tension for strongest wheel). Using a single speed DT Swiss "hybrid" hub, you can install 5 cogs in the steel freehub. The middle cog is 54mm chainline and moving up or down 2 cogs maintains a very reasonable chain angle. I used this setup for 2 different mid-drives; TSDZ2 and CYC Stealth.

My wheel is for sale now: F.S: Very robust DT Swiss 27.5" e-bike wheel with zero dish (gently used for commuting):