Charging Stations and E-Bikes

[Eclectic]

I have a Meanwell HLG PS that I carry sometimes as a charger. It has a standard US 110VAC plug. Can I use this at a standard EV charging station? Could I use something like the "PlugShare" app to find places to charge my e-bike if I am too far from home?

 

[tln]

I have a Meanwell HLG PS that I carry sometimes as a charger. It has a standard US 110VAC plug. Can I use this at a standard EV charging station? Could I use something like the "PlugShare" app to find places to charge my e-bike if I am too far from home?

Looks like it, the plugshare website lists what outlets the charging stations have and some do include 110v outlets. Nice idea!

 

[bowlofsalad]

I have a Meanwell HLG PS that I carry sometimes as a charger. It has a standard US 110VAC plug. Can I use this at a standard EV charging station? Could I use something like the "PlugShare" app to find places to charge my e-bike if I am too far from home?

Looks like it, the plugshare website lists what outlets the charging stations have and some do include 110v outlets. Nice idea!

Bingo, super exciting.

 

[dogman dan]

Shame all car charging stations don't include a 110 or 220 outlet.

I always look for plugs in truly public places. By that I mean public parks, community centers, etc but not the school. School budgets are for the kids. Some towns in my area have public plugs, but my town doesn't. Asking nicely in many places of business can get you a plug in.

 

[Eclectic]

I know that many others here have multiple EVs and thought that they would have more knowledge than me (I have never really looked at a charging station in detail before).

Last weekend I rode to a large regional park. It is more than 800 acres with a 70 acre lake, boat and bike rentals, swimming beach, lifeguards, picnic areas and for several months in the spring, it is home to Renaissance Faire. It is also a major stop on the 35mi San Gabriel River bike trail. It is also 7 miles from home (14 miles round trip). I figured that if I could charge for an hour or so, I could really do some exploring before heading home. I rode around that park for more than an hour (5 miles) and could not find an outlet anywhere. None of the building has outlets on the outside. The park closes at sunset so there is almost no lighting. Even the restrooms had only 1 motion activated florescent light (no outlets). I found a vending machine outside of the (closed) main office but it had a padlocked cover on the outlet (this was the only outside outlet I found).

I looked on PlugShare and found a charging station a couple of miles away (SoCal Edison office) that said it had 110 outlets but it required a ChargePoint card (even though the charging was FREE).

I have been looking at the PlugShare app and noticed that it filters so I can search for 110VAC. I also read that many ChargePoint stations has a 110 outlet inside of a door. Anybody have any input on this?

Would it be possible make a converter from J1772 socket to 110VAC socket?

It looks like ChargePoint is currently the biggest network. Would it make sense to get a ChargPoint card?

I was hoping that someone here with more experience and knowledge about charging stations could add some insight.

 

[dnmun]

i have always been lucky when i ran outa juice and just walked up to the nearest house and asked. three times during my range tests. i carried 250' of extension cords too.

on one of my range tests i ran outa juice in an industrial area at 11:30pm on a saturday night. seemed to be totally deserted for blocks and blocks. but i saw a light on but it was several blocks away so i pushed the car rolling down hill there to a machine shop that was open and the guys were on a night shift.

plugged in for an hour and yakked them up about EVs. guy even gave me some candy for entertaining them on break.

 

[bowlofsalad]

i have always been lucky when i ran outa juice and just walked up to the nearest house and asked. three times during my range tests. i carried 250' of extension cords too.

on one of my range tests i ran outa juice in an industrial area at 11:30pm on a saturday night. seemed to be totally deserted for blocks and blocks. but i saw a light on but it was several blocks away so i pushed the car rolling down hill there to a machine shop that was open and the guys were on a night shift.

plugged in for an hour and yakked them up about EVs. guy even gave me some candy for entertaining them on break.

Here is what you need to determine range, a watt meter, and a way to measure total distance traveled.

The first thing you need to do is to measure your battery packs total capacity (infinitely more convenient than trying to do this on the road). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usRE3gLFnOc This video will help you achieve this.

Next, do some traveling as normal with your watt meter hooked up and your method of measuring distance traveled. When you are done traveling and you are at home find total watt hours(found with the watt meter) consumed and total distance traveled. Then, take your watt hours and divide this by your distance. Lets pretend you consumed a 1000 watt hours over 40 miles, 1000/40=25, or 25 watt hours per mile. Then, you take your packs total capacity and your watt hours per mile, maybe add a few digits to the watt hours per mile for variables and buffer, and divide capacity by watt hours per mile. Lets pretend your pack has an capacity of 2000 watt hours and you use the previously found 25(+2 for buffer) watt hours per mile, 2000/27=74~ or in other words you'd have a theoretical range of around 74 miles. Each time you cycle a battery pack, you lose some capacity, the deeper you discharge, the more capacity you lose. I hope the advantage to this technique is obvious over driving aimlessly to LVC(low voltage cutoff).

This is one of the reasons why I really like the cycle analyst, you can easily and repeatedly observe your watt hours per mile (it calculates this automatically) and get an extremely clear understanding of how far you will go based on a small amount of information. Being able to quickly and easily make this observation in all kinds of situations gives you as deep of an understanding as one can gain based on how various conditions may influence how far you can go. This allows you to effective do this sort of range test every single time you travel without running the risk of blindly reaching your packs LVC.

A failure to plan is a plan for failure.

I've never needed to stop and ask for some electricity, however my plan has always been that if I had to, I am sure there are plenty of businesses that would lend you an outlet while you spent your money there, or if you offered them a few dollars in exchange for the use. One thing I've always been concerned with involving that situation is the capacity of an outlet/breaker. If someones intention is to travel a lot and potentially need to use various outlets, it's probably wise not to exceed 10 amps unless you can verify with them that the outlet you are plugging into can handle more. I certainly wouldn't want to go around tripping breakers, sure, it's easy to flip a breaker back on, but I'd rather not worry about such things.

To me, all of this information is essential to anyone traveling with a battery. When I first got into electric bicycles, I had never heard of a cycle analyst, but I am so so glad I got one. Just in case, I wasn't writing this entirely for dnmun, I hope you don't take these words condescendingly, I imagine you already know most of this.

 

[Eclectic]

Thanks amberwolf; I thought an adapter might be a lot of money and trouble but it’s worth a shot to see if someone came up with a cheap, easy solution.

Thanks bowlofsalad; Lots of good information (LOL I’m sure dnmun knows it also). A Cycle Analyst is a very good thing to have!

The problem I’m having is that where I live in SoCal, it can be 50-100 miles of urban/suburban congestion before I can get to anything interesting. Just finding a route that is somewhat safe is a daunting task.

I decided to try the Santa Fe Dam Park because it is huge and well developed and attached to the San Gabriel River bike trail (goes from the mountains to beach – just soooooooo SoCal). Unfortunately, most of the park development has been recent and it was built to withstand heavy urban abuse (pretty but built to prison abuse standards). Surely I could find at least one outlet in an 800 acre park, but noooo… nothing. I thought about just heading out on the bike trail and trying to find an “opportunity charge” but a lot of the neighborhoods the bike trail runs through are pretty sketchy. I finally just ran a few errands and headed for home.

I’m currently using 20Ah of 12s Lipo (I have another 5Ah sitting in the refrigerator @ 3.8V in a plastic bag). My commute is 15+ mi each way (I charge at work) but the 23.7 miles I did last weekend was the farthest I have ridden with this pack. I guess I will just have to figure out how much capacity I have.

I love road-trips. I’ve been on dozens of solo road-trips and dozens more with family and friends. I am just trying to figure out a predictable, safe way to get across my urban desert to get to someplace where I can be a little more spontaneous.

 

[dogman dan]

Hey, at least you have a something along the way that 100 miles. Out here, I carry 70 mile range on a tour because it can be 70 miles to the next house, water, anything.

Starting point for you is just buy more battery. 50 mile range will do you most days. Slow riding makes your pack go twice as far, so ride 15-18 mph vs 20-25 mph.

Places I've charged. Overnight, at campgrounds where you can buy a space with a plug. Along the way, I've used hot plugs on businesses that are for sale and vacant, Community recreation centers, and city parks. But like I said, good frocking luck finding one in Las Cruces NM. Look for RV folks. they have generators aboard, and are often friendly types.

But if all that fails, look for people, chat them up, and ask. Gas stations, coffee shops, dollar stores, whatever. Look for coke machines and Ice coolers. that means an outdoor plug.

Just start finding plugs in your area, and it will help you learn how to find plugs anywhere. If really desperate, as I was that one day at the vacant business, remember that vacant houses for sale also often still have the power turned on. Consider developing a network of peoples houses or businesses in your area where you have permanent permission to grab a charge.

I rarely use it, but in my town I have a few hot plugs located, and have a few friends sprinkled around where I can charge. In town, I'll never be totally stuck.

Lastly, because it is a dangerous ride for 50+ miles, consider getting a strong hitch mounted bike rack. Drive to coast or whatever, then go for a 50 mile ride. Because its 70 miles in any direction to nice forest from my house, I do this often. I don't always have the time or energy to ride there on the bike and back. Last weekend, I took a day trip and my wife and I had a nice ride around the forest through the last of the aspen trees in color. Sure, half a tank of gas totally wasted, but worth it.

 

[Eclectic]

amberwolf - Thanks for checking stuff out even if it didn't pan out for you. I guess I was being lazy and hoping that someone here might have some experience with charging station and tell me all kinds of wonderful information. So I started investigating a little myself.

The 2 best apps I found for finding charging stations (CS) were "PlugShare" and "ChargePoint".

PlugShare is a group sourced community database so it seems like all user input. Because it's group sourced, the info may or may not be accurate. There are reviews of a lot of CS. Some hidden places like parks etc. and even some individuals who will offer a plug to the desperate.

ChargePoint is the largest EV charging network in the US. It seems to be their database although they do list some other CS not just ChargePoint. I got an account and received the cards in the mail 4-5 days later.



Short story...
Found a place that had "Level 1, NEMA 5-20R". Level 1 = 120VAC and NEMA 5-20R will fit a standard North American 3 prong plug. And it was free! Used my card to activate the station and unlock the door to the plug. Pluged-in and started charging. Worked great.

More info later...

 

[Eclectic]

The first place I used was at a regional center for the Southern California Edison Co. It’s a large campus, about the size of a good sized mall. It was kinda’ spooky on a Sunday because it was just me and a security guard who would nod as he went by on his rounds.
View attachment 7


This is a ChargePoint (CP) charging station (CS):

The door with the #1 on it is where the Level 1 charging is.

The CP card is an RFID card so tap, tap, tap. I accidently activated the CS when I used my hand to block the sun so I could read the screen (guess I shouldn’t have had card in the same hand). I couldn’t read the screen because of the sun but I could hear a couple of solenoids click so I opened the door with the “1” on it.



View attachment 2
Inside was a “NEMA 5-20R” socket. I plugged in my charger. I saw something about lock door and energize on the screen so I closed the door.

I could hear the solenoid click again and this popped up on the screen.

0.324 kW was comforting because I had an MW HLG 320. It seemed like the charger was putting out 10W-20W less than what the CS was reporting. It is truly amazing how hot the charger can get on only 10W-20W.

 

[Eclectic]

By looking at my crystal ball, I do not see any compatibility between charging stations for cars with your ebike.

Hmmm... Maybe your crystal ball is a little cloudy

 

[dnmun]

does that plug detect whether you are using a regular 120V plug to the 240V plug with the spades at right angles like that.

so it would connect to 240 if you used a 240 plug? why is it free? university or city pay for it?

 

[Eclectic]

does that plug detect whether you are using a regular 120V plug to the 240V plug with the spades at right angles like that.
so it would connect to 240 if you used a 240 plug?

I honestly don't know. It's listed as a "Level 1" which I believe is a single phase 120V standard but I am not really sure.

why is it free? university or city pay for it?

It's part of the power company regional center with lots of offices and training/educational centers etc. I assume that it is mostly for employees but it is open to the public. It's actually attached to the "Energy Educational Center" which I believe is a place where they give tours to school kids. Mostly a PR thing I imagine.

 

[amberwolf]

It is truly amazing how hot the charger can get on only 10W-20W.

If you put that heat into a concentrated spot, you can use it to solder with. somewhere I've got an Ungar iron that's only 10W with a teensy thin pencil heater, and tiny little tips, and antoher one tha'ts 15W but a little fatter. Both can handle some decent sized thruhole component stuff. (though nothing on the 80W Weller with chisel tip when it comes to power planes and fat wires :lol

does that plug detect whether you are using a regular 120V plug to the 240V plug with the spades at right angles like that.

AFAIK the right angle type plug (NEMA 5-20R) is for 20A supply, and the upright is for 15A. Both are meant for 110-120VAC, IIRC. I might be misremembering; I only read about that stuff in passing when I was trying to learn adn figure out what plug/socket I'd need for the 220VAC welder during the housefire repairs.

 

[ddk]

...

does that plug detect whether you are using a regular 120V plug to the 240V plug with the spades at right angles like that.

AFAIK the right angle type plug (NEMA 5-20R) is for 20A supply, and the upright is for 15A. Both are meant for 110-120VAC, IIRC. I might be misremembering; I only read about that stuff in passing when I was trying to learn adn figure out what plug/socket I'd need for the 220VAC welder during the housefire repairs.

ding ding ding
is correct!

Short story
code change in early 90's disallowing "standard" 110 sockets for our specified USB supplies (110V-17A)
The local code inspector caught this error, but amazingly enough the "new" code made no provisions for using the NEMA 5-20R.
The inspector wanted us to use the old 30A RV plugs ! (BTW, no longer allowed by "new" code exempting RV campgrounds)
I'd always specified the NEMA 5-20R but the installers used regular sockets and plugs.
I had to provide the inspector with the parts specification for the NEMA 5-20R before allowances were made.

The code was modified soon after...

 

[friendly1uk]

Being yellow, I imagine it follows convention and 110v is all you can expect. Though the US does frequently ignore international standards. So it might be yellow because that is all they could get.

 

[Alan B]

They are 120V 15/20A.

A JT adapter and an Eaton 48-3G would get 1800W or other server type supplies are similar, and very lightweight.

 

[xenodius]

I thought the Eaton was rated for only 1100 watts at 110v, and 1800 at 220v? 1800 off a standard 110 would be fantastic!

 

[Alan B]

The JT adapter provides 240V from the car charging port.

 

[xenodius]

The JT adapter provides 240V from the car charging port.

Brilliant! Has to have around 10% losses though, yes? Even at 110v it's not too far from tripping the breaker... still, another bit to consider =)

 

[Alan B]

Not looking at the data sheet now, but probably less than 10% loss. These circuits should be fully rated, not shared, so a 20A circuit is allowed to be loaded at 16A continuous, 20A peak at 120V. The 240V JT circuit can go much higher, of course.

 

[xenodius]

Very cool. My next build will have a very large pack-- 22s36p or 22s27p of samsung 25R cells, 2.5ah. each. So it might be as large as 8kwhr, and I definitely plan to have 220v NEMA 14-50 as well as J1772 connectors. But squeezing a bit more out of 110v might be nice too and worth a couple more pounds =)

Looking on PlugShare, it's amazing how many of the great J1772's or 14-50's are offered freely at inns, parking garages, and dealerships.

 

[jateureka]

The first place I used was at a regional center for the Southern California Edison Co. It’s a large campus, about the size of a good sized mall. It was kinda’ spooky on a Sunday because it was just me and a security guard who would nod as he went by on his rounds.
View attachment 7


This is a ChargePoint (CP) charging station (CS):
View attachment 6
The door with the #1 on it is where the Level 1 charging is.

The CP card is an RFID card so tap, tap, tap. I accidently activated the CS when I used my hand to block the sun so I could read the screen (guess I shouldn’t have had card in the same hand). I couldn’t read the screen because of the sun but I could hear a couple of solenoids click so I opened the door with the “1” on it.
View attachment 5
View attachment 4
View attachment 3
View attachment 2
Inside was a “NEMA 5-20R” socket. I plugged in my charger. I saw something about lock door and energize on the screen so I closed the door.

I could hear the solenoid click again and this popped up on the screen.
View attachment 1
0.324 kW was comforting because I had an MW HLG 320....

WOW, we have ChargePoint here but sadly I have not seen any that give you access to a 240Vac household socket that my ZEV and Zero need. I need to write to ChargePoint QLD and ask them to install some!

 

[Eclectic]

I briefly looked at trying to make a J1772 adapter (I believe that my HLG charger will auto detect input voltage) but the (J1772) sockets alone were $65-$100 and it appears to be an intelligent protocol between the charger and vehicle so I didn't pursue it very long. A nice adapter would certainly make using charging stations a lot more convenient. Any body have any ideas on making (or acquiring) an inexpensive J1772 adapter.