CHEAP NEW ORIGINAL 18650 21700 BATTERY CELLS, POUCHES AND PACKS
- Thread starter tumich
- Start date
Highfreak
10 mW
Aposa said:
If you want a reply, you need to PM him.
DAND214
10 MW
Amazing how many salesmen tumich has. I think it's great.Highfreak said:
Dan
Highfreak
10 mW
DAND214 said:
When someone gives me excellent service, I will help them out any way I can. I t also helps others obtain their goal in this field and promotes the expansion of the EV movement.
Does this surprise you??
DAND214
10 MW
Not a bit. I do the same.
Dan
Joe T.
100 W
bogus105 said:
I sent a PM on 10-29 and got a reply.
I ordered cells on 9-30 and they arrived in NY on 11-10. Right in the window I was told it would take.
Highfreak
10 mW
bogus105 said:
I think it might have been because you had just joined ES and had not been totally assimilated into the system yet. Try again later.
Highfreak
10 mW
Like clockwork! Same as my last order, shipping time to New Jersey, 6 weeks. Now about 4 more days to Alaska. :lol:
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
I've read this entire thread on lithium cells sold by Tumich. 
I was wondering if anybody could answer few questions based on their previous experience from purchasing Tumich's cells :
1 - Was the shipping fees expensive 
I don't need to know the exact amount, just the approximate cost in orders of magnitudes (example : 20$, 50$, 100$, 200 $ ?). I understand shipping might vary a bit according to country to delivery, but it might not be so different between USA and Canada (same continent).
2 - Did you have to pay custom fees when the parcel entered your country (I myself am in Canada) If so, was it expensive/how much
3 - Anybody had problems because of UN/DOT 38.3 transportation regulations (ex : parcel held, parcel seized, parcel lost etc. ?)
I ask because I'm trying to figure the whole real cost for the unwelded cells or never welded cells.
I'm maybe looking to order around 200 x Sanyo NCR18650GA cells (or higher load-rated cells) from Tumich next april 2017 (when the climate is not so cold that it will degrade the cells during the 2-3 months sea trip).
If I could get my hands on high-amp rated cells (30A or 20A) with an average medium to good capacity (2000 mAh or higher), that would be even better ! My prefered choices, in decreasing order of preference would be : 1st - Sony VTC4 (30A - 2100 mAh) > 2nd - LG HG2 (20A - 3000 mAh) > 3rd - Sony VTC5 (20A - 2600 mAh) > 4th - Samsung INR-18650-30Q (15A - 3000 mAh) >> 5th - Sanyo NCR18650GA (10A - 3500 mAh) >> 6th - Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A - 2900 mAh).
Thanks in advance for your input,
Matador
PS : For those of you who wonder, I ride a 30A BBSHD on a 28inch hybrid bike (bike + motor kit + battery = 70 lbs. Me 150 lbs) with front chainring 46T and rear gears 14T to 34T. I toped off at 1600 watts and a max 62km/h on flat while testing a homemade fully charged 58.8V 14S9P used rainbow laptop cells pack (calculated 1075 Wh at 4.5A load (0.22C) from individual cell testing : average 2300 mAh/cell tested [with Foxnovo 4S at -0.5A/cell from 4.2 to 2.8V]... worst cell 1756 mAh, best cell 2690 mAh, average DC-IR 143 mOhm/cell, best DC-IR/cell 79mOhm, worst DC-IR/cell 249 mOhm, worst voltage drift (from 4.20V) was 0.20 V over 6 month, best 0.02 V over 6 months. 1S9P subpacks were equilibrated so that each 1S9P subpack had 20.7Ah and each 1S9P subpack had a calculated DCIR between 14.0 and 15.6 mOhms).
View attachment Li-Ion.xlsx
After 20 miles ride in 2h on flat, the battery pack temp rose to 70°Celcius. Used up 550 Whr and rest voltage was 52V. I'm concerned about number of cycles, knowing I like to push the throttle all the time very hard. At one point, at 31-32 amps load (1.6C), I saw voltage sag of 10 volts ! (53 to 43 volts under full load... almost hit LVC and I'm just below 45%SOC!). After 10 cycles, I lost a significant amount of my battery capacity (maybe 10-15%) from the cells overheating. I want to push my BBSHD to the maximum limit (maybe even upgrade the mosfets in the future) and not have the pack heat up more than 10°C over ambiant. I want to have good life cycles and plan to use battery in 80% SOC to 20% SOC. Hence my interest in 30A rated cells... I want very low IR for very low heat loss.... Less temps rise mean better cycle life to me. To me a 14S4P pack made of 10A-rated 18650 cells is out of the question for a 30A BBSHD, I'll be pushing full throttle all the time. I'm not interested in a pack that will only last me 50-100 cycles. If I go the 10A-rated cell route, the pack will have to be at least 8P if not 10P. I want my full throttle habit to correspond to the cells average continous amp rating and with a conservative margin...
I've gained experience from testing around 220 used rainbow laptop cells (test for mAh, DCIR, voltage drift, heat rise) in the past last year. I learned from my mistakes. Now that I gained experience, I think I can avoid mistakes and build a pack with new and more precious (as in more expensive) 18650 cells. My ambition is to build the best battery pack that I can (to me, that means minimizing total pack resistance and favoring thick copper connections rather than nickel strips). I'm serious about this. I think I like battery pack engenering even more than building the ebike itself.
I was wondering if anybody could answer few questions based on their previous experience from purchasing Tumich's cells :
1 - Was the shipping fees expensive I don't need to know the exact amount, just the approximate cost in orders of magnitudes (example : 20$, 50$, 100$, 200 $ ?). I understand shipping might vary a bit according to country to delivery, but it might not be so different between USA and Canada (same continent). 2 - Did you have to pay custom fees when the parcel entered your country (I myself am in Canada) If so, was it expensive/how much 3 - Anybody had problems because of UN/DOT 38.3 transportation regulations (ex : parcel held, parcel seized, parcel lost etc. ?)I ask because I'm trying to figure the whole real cost for the unwelded cells or never welded cells.
I'm maybe looking to order around 200 x Sanyo NCR18650GA cells (or higher load-rated cells) from Tumich next april 2017 (when the climate is not so cold that it will degrade the cells during the 2-3 months sea trip).
If I could get my hands on high-amp rated cells (30A or 20A) with an average medium to good capacity (2000 mAh or higher), that would be even better ! My prefered choices, in decreasing order of preference would be : 1st - Sony VTC4 (30A - 2100 mAh) > 2nd - LG HG2 (20A - 3000 mAh) > 3rd - Sony VTC5 (20A - 2600 mAh) > 4th - Samsung INR-18650-30Q (15A - 3000 mAh) >> 5th - Sanyo NCR18650GA (10A - 3500 mAh) >> 6th - Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A - 2900 mAh).
Thanks in advance for your input,
Matador
PS : For those of you who wonder, I ride a 30A BBSHD on a 28inch hybrid bike (bike + motor kit + battery = 70 lbs. Me 150 lbs) with front chainring 46T and rear gears 14T to 34T. I toped off at 1600 watts and a max 62km/h on flat while testing a homemade fully charged 58.8V 14S9P used rainbow laptop cells pack (calculated 1075 Wh at 4.5A load (0.22C) from individual cell testing : average 2300 mAh/cell tested [with Foxnovo 4S at -0.5A/cell from 4.2 to 2.8V]... worst cell 1756 mAh, best cell 2690 mAh, average DC-IR 143 mOhm/cell, best DC-IR/cell 79mOhm, worst DC-IR/cell 249 mOhm, worst voltage drift (from 4.20V) was 0.20 V over 6 month, best 0.02 V over 6 months. 1S9P subpacks were equilibrated so that each 1S9P subpack had 20.7Ah and each 1S9P subpack had a calculated DCIR between 14.0 and 15.6 mOhms).
View attachment Li-Ion.xlsx
After 20 miles ride in 2h on flat, the battery pack temp rose to 70°Celcius. Used up 550 Whr and rest voltage was 52V. I'm concerned about number of cycles, knowing I like to push the throttle all the time very hard. At one point, at 31-32 amps load (1.6C), I saw voltage sag of 10 volts ! (53 to 43 volts under full load... almost hit LVC and I'm just below 45%SOC!). After 10 cycles, I lost a significant amount of my battery capacity (maybe 10-15%) from the cells overheating. I want to push my BBSHD to the maximum limit (maybe even upgrade the mosfets in the future) and not have the pack heat up more than 10°C over ambiant. I want to have good life cycles and plan to use battery in 80% SOC to 20% SOC. Hence my interest in 30A rated cells... I want very low IR for very low heat loss.... Less temps rise mean better cycle life to me. To me a 14S4P pack made of 10A-rated 18650 cells is out of the question for a 30A BBSHD, I'll be pushing full throttle all the time. I'm not interested in a pack that will only last me 50-100 cycles. If I go the 10A-rated cell route, the pack will have to be at least 8P if not 10P. I want my full throttle habit to correspond to the cells average continous amp rating and with a conservative margin...
I've gained experience from testing around 220 used rainbow laptop cells (test for mAh, DCIR, voltage drift, heat rise) in the past last year. I learned from my mistakes. Now that I gained experience, I think I can avoid mistakes and build a pack with new and more precious (as in more expensive) 18650 cells. My ambition is to build the best battery pack that I can (to me, that means minimizing total pack resistance and favoring thick copper connections rather than nickel strips). I'm serious about this. I think I like battery pack engenering even more than building the ebike itself.
mushymelon
1 kW
My experience with Tumich.
I'm located in Ontario.
Great communication
Cheap shipping and it took about 3 and a half weeks for 100 pf cells. I'm not gonna say $ because It was cheap really cheap, I think I got an early adopters rate.
No duties were paid, they just delivered them to my door.
They were marked battery cells but went through without problems
I was still was nervous though. Maybe with ground shipping things are not so strict.
I would expect to pay duties I think I got lucky.
I'm located in Ontario.
Great communication
Cheap shipping and it took about 3 and a half weeks for 100 pf cells. I'm not gonna say $ because It was cheap really cheap, I think I got an early adopters rate.
No duties were paid, they just delivered them to my door.
They were marked battery cells but went through without problems
I was still was nervous though. Maybe with ground shipping things are not so strict.
I would expect to pay duties I think I got lucky.
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
mushymelon said:
Thanks for that feedback Mushymelon.
I'm really interested in Tumich's great deal.
I'm kind of ambivalent though : I might settle for some GA cells (10A rated), but I'd really love some high amp rated cells (like 30 or 20 amps rated) if Tumich could sell some.
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
riba2233 said:
Yes, I just figured.
Good to store them in the cold as it will slow their chemical degradation over time (ah, thermodynamics... kinetic energy lowered at low temps slows the chemical reaction rate)
It's just not as good to drain the cells in cold weather (less mAh).
Could you believe I've done a Masters in Organic-chem and not remembered that ?
ElectricSprocket
10 mW
Thanks Tumich, the Sanyo's got here (Sydney Aus). 85 days - the slow boat from Poland!
sprocket
sprocket
Pedrodemio
100 W
Dicast said:
You have to send a PM for him to answer, i'm from Brazil too and the shipping for 30 cells was cheap, unfortunately it's almost certain that you will have to pay the 60% import fee + the abusive fixed R$12,00 fee, at least that was my case
Hardergamer
100 W
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2017
- Messages
- 103
Really 60%!? WOW Would it not be cheaper to get them from Japan.
