City Commuter or…

[g00ch]

Hi. I have decided to get an electric bike and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I have found a Gepedo (purposefully misspelled to avoid responses from annoying company reps) 48v step-through city commuter in the city for $2499. It seems like a no-brainer considering what few (okay, two) other bikes I was able to find locally could not match the power or price of this bike. Also, from what I can tell if I were to build my own it would cost me at least $1000 (CDN $300 or so for motor, at least $350 for a battery, and another $300 to ship said battery, not to mention any customs/brokerage fees I might incur) and I'd still be throwing all of this onto a POS bike. I also like the fact that there is a longstanding local dealer who can respond to any warranty issues I might have.

Before I bite the bullet are there any other options I should be considering? Is there anyone else in Canada who doesn't live in Alberta, B.C. or Toronto (where it seems people fart electric bicycles) who has had a good experience getting a great bike/kit at a great price shipped to them for a reasonable cost? Keep in mind I am a heavier rider (approx. 290 lbs, but it ain't all flubber, I used to play football and still play rugby) and from what I've read a 250w motor will likely not cut it no matter where it's mounted. I am fairly handy and raced BMX in my yoot so I am not uncomfortable with taking apart a bike and putting it back together again. I am also not averse to putting in some sweat, I was biking to work pretty faithfully until shinter (a feeble attempt at a portmanteau of sh*t and winter) hit. I want a bike that will give me no excuse not to ride, no matter what the wind, cold, snow, rain, sweltering heat or traffic are like, and where I live any of these (or all, I live in Hell) can be bad enough to make you want take the car.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

[DAND214]

Do you have a link to the scooter? For that money it better be heated and air conditioned :lol:

Do you plan on registring it? I would say it's over the power limits as a ebike, more a moped.

You will hear from others and will hear that most of the so called high end scooters are not what they are rated at. So do some research before you BUY.

Also look at this too http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=57762
Dan

 

[g00ch]

Sorry, perhaps I should have been clearer, and I hope I'm posting to the correct forum. The bike is a Pedego 48v City commuter with 500w brushless geared rear hub motor. It has quite a few bells and whistles, but sadly no climate control. I've seen the 48v version advertised for about $3100 CDN. It has a 10Ah lithium battery.

 

[Zshortyz]

I am just barely learning all of this stuff as well. However I think that bike is on the high end of prices. The base model 36v 10ah 400w motor for $2500 seems really expensive. When you upgrade it to the 48v your mentioning, 48v 10ah 500w motor will run you close to $3000, all this before shipping. I am pretty sure some of the more knowledgeable folks can tell you some options as I haven't built my bike yet, just merely window shopping trying to find the right combination.

But I can tell you right now my pricing just so you can get an estimate. These are all shipped to the US by the way.

Motor: 48v 1000w complete kit; $250 shipped
Battery: 48v 20ah with charger and BMS; $563 shipped
Bike: Mountain bike that I have eventually want to upgrade to a nicer one but under your constraints with the budget you have you could have a lot of room left over for a bike.

 

[teslanv]

If you have even a little bit of skill, you could install a kit on a mountain bike for about 1/2 of that cost, and have an equally good (and probably better) commuter.

$2500 is a LOT for what you are describing, and at 500W, it doesn't sound like anything special.

If you gave me (or many of the people on this forum for that matter) $2500 to BUILD you a bike, we could make something much more versatile and durable, I am sure.

Or just start reading up on this forum, educate yourself and build your own. It's much more gratifying, I have to say.

 

[Jason27]

I agree. Any ebike over $2k is really not worth it. $1500-2000 is ideal.

 

[teslanv]

Here's an option I could highly recommend if you want something simple but quality:

Buy a $500 or less Hardtail Mountain Bike with good front suspension that fits you well. Some of us even like REALLY cheap bikes like Mongoose, Iron Horse (That's my bike), Motobecane, etc. - And Craigslist is always great if you can find a bike that isn't stolen.

Then (if you are located in the US) buy this Mid Drive Kit:

http://lectriccycles.com/products/750-watt-mid-drive-conversion-kit

And this Battery:

http://lectriccycles.com/products/48v-downtube-mounted-battery

The Kit is very easy to install.

You can buld your bike for about $2000 and it will perform WAAAAAAY better than the City Commuter.

That is basically what I built for my first ebike, and I love it. (See thread in my signature)

 

[wesnewell]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

For $2500 I could put together 3 ebikes that would go faster and farther than the Pedego.
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/26-Inch-Rear-PRO-901-Conversion-Kit.html

 

[dogman dan]

To me, it does sound like you have all the basic skills needed to build your own kit, for either cheaper, or for the same money, based on a really good bike.

Part of the decision though, depends on how much time you have to spend, and how far you need to go. If you need, and I bet you would like 1000w, then for sure you will be better off to build your own.

If the bike budget is $300, then you can build a really solid dependable commuter with 20 miles of range for $1500 or so. And, it can be done even cheaper by taking various battery options if your range needs are much less.

 

[g00ch]

I appreciate all of your feedback so far.

I changed my profile to point out that I live in the Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, a.k.a. Earth's rectum. You pretty much have to have lived in this 'orrible place (it's really not that bad, but as a 'pegger I am duty-bound to complain about it) to fully appreciate what sucks about it.

Firstly, as a consumer. The selection here bites balls. The smartest shoppers here order things through US stores, have it shipped for free to some genius capitalist just over the US border (name of Crazy Todd or Harry Nutz or something, I can't remember), take a day trip to Fargo (Earth's perineum), and pray over their Arby's Roast Cheddar Curly Burger™ that they don't get cavity-searched attempting to smuggle it into Canada. The only thing more costly than the taxes and duties that I would be forced to pay to bring Chinese crap here from the US is the ridiculous brokerage fees of UPS, may they rot in hell. (I once imported a Panasonic camera manufactured in the US and was asked to pay $800 in brokerage fees.) And don't get me started on what kind of mess I'd be in if I had to ship something back, for say warranty issues.

Secondly, as a bike rider. People here hate cyclists. And I don't use that word lightly. I once had a guy in his pick-up truck cut me off, hug the curb so I couldn't pass and then hit the brakes, and then flip ME the bird. All in a company car. I bet if 100,000 'peggers read this post they would be all like "ha, ha, that was me!". And to be fair that's me too, when I'm not riding a bike. It's just a thing we have, something to be proud of. I think our water is infected with "rage", but strangely it only affects people's attitude towards cyclists. (Fist-bump fellow Winnipeggers, you know what I'm talkin' 'bout, "Kill 'em all!" … except me, please don't kill me. Please and thanks.)

The only way for me to stay alive is to stay off the streets as much as possible. The only way I can take the trails (until they ban ebikes on trails) is if my bike does less than 32kph. I will get lynched if I get into a kerfuffle on a trail riding an ebike, so best to keep it as legal as possible.

So to sum up. It will take some convincing to make me believe that I can have something shipped here for a reasonable price. After all, I'd sooner believe that it's because of our subsidies that you Yanks enjoy free shipping on everything. Also, I don't need a bike that will launch me into outer space, 32kph will do. My wet dream is to hear from some guy or gal who says they lived in Winnipeg or Saskatoon (Winnipeg's handsome but retarded cousin, who attracts chicks but doesn't know what to do with them) and ordered such and such awesome bike or kit from Farto's Bike Emporium in Newark and it was no sweat, fast and cheap shipping, yadda-yadda-yadda. A man can dream can't he?

Thanks again for all your feedback!

 

[teslanv]

perhaps you can find something fitting here:

http://www.ebikes.ca/

They are based in Vancouver, BC and are one of the leading authorities in the ebike world. - And since they are based in Canada, cheaper shipping for you, and no import/customs hassles.

 

[dogman dan]

Bingo. Not the cheapest, but the best.

You might look at golden motor Canada too, if Grin is too high.

The motor stuff is not where the money goes, it's the battery. You are still pretty screwed on that one, duties wise.

But you could build a battery from cells you buy from the Canadian Dr Bass. He gets Makita pack cells from time to time. No duties. 8)

 

[g00ch]

Okay, at first I thought everyone was yanking my crank, because I was checking all the wrong sites and it was all like 900 for battery, 900 for motor, plus shipping, plus hazardous material surcharge, plus, plus, plus. For only $500 more I could get a complete bike with lights and display and nice cushy seat. But now that I've visited Golden Motors I've seen that I can get a 48v 10Ah LiFePO4 battery for a bit over $500 shipped. And about $50 less if I go with a 36v 12Ah. According to Golden Motor and EM3ev it looks like I don't necessarily need 48v, unless I want to pass cars on the highway. Does anyone know anything about this rack-mounted battery from Golden Motor?

So I would like to start virtually building a kit with your help and advice, if you don't mind. I have read a lot of posts on this forum but there is a lot to go through and I'm reading a bit of conflicting info. Can you please help me come up with a good configuration starting with either a 36v or 48v battery, and taking into consideration the usage detailed below? (Also, ill there be battery compatibility issues if I get the battery from GM but the motor from somewhere else?)

Usage
Rider weight: ~290 lbs
Commute: 7.7-10.5 km, depending on route
Terrain: Flat as flat can be, lots of potholes on roads, bike trails new & in decent shape
Desired speed: 32 km/h (I suppose if I could pop on a 48v battery and go faster some days that would be cool)
Fitness level: Able. Generally sedentary due to job, periodically very active when not at work

eBike Build
Current bike: 2009 Jamis Citizen II (see below, willing to consider new bike)) - Bought and paid for
Battery: 36v 12Ah LiFePO4 - $418.95 from goldenmotor.ca
Motor: Mac 500W Starter Kit 36V, 700C Alex DH19 CNC, Controller Type 9 fet 30A, Throttle Type Half Twist, Ebrakes - $351 + ? shipping from em3ev
Etc.: Rack, torque arm, anything else I'm forgetting… - ???

Jamis Citizen II
Frame: 6061 TIG-welded aluminum, hydroformed top/down tubes, sloping double triangle frame design, replaceable derailleur hanger.
Fork: RST Neon Pro suspension, 1 1/8” steerer, external preload adjustor, 60mm travel.
Wheels: Weinmann ZAC 1800 double wall alloy 700c rims, Formula alloy hubs with QR, stainless steel spokes. (Replaced front wheel, much stronger)
Tires: Vittoria Adventure Touring, 700 x 38c, with Rubber Sheilding puncture protection and reflective safety stripe
Drivetrain: Shimano Acera rear derailleur, Shimano EZ-Fire 8-speed shifters, Shimano Nexave triple crank 48/38/28 with guard and Sealed Cartridge BB
Brakeset: Tektro Alloy direct pull brakes w/front modulator, Shimano EZ-Fire levers.
Cockpit: Hi-rise comfort bar, adjustable-rise alloy stem, suspension seatpost, Jamis Comfort memory foam saddle.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

 

[teslanv]

If you are ordering from em3ev, you might consider the Mac 10T Pick N Mix Kit, which will have everything you need but the battery. Shipping would be another $120 or so from China. I don't know how bad Canada is for customs fees, but in the States, I haven't been hit yet with the few small purchases I have made.

 

[Ypedal]

I got my hands on a pedego a while back.. some info here :
http://ypedal.com/blog/Blog4-20130809.htm

Nice all around bike, at 48v and the display tweaked properly, it goes a bit over 32 kph :wink: .

If you opt for a kit, at your weight, get a Direct Drive motor at 48v, from Ebikes.ca .. and yes, the battery costs as much, sometimes more than the kit, but it's all about the battery...

 

[veloman]

The 48v city commuter is still my favorite ebike of choice in the shop. Deregulated it does 25mph and has good acceleration. There have been some issues with the older models electronics, but it's a decent bike. Best hillclimber, good avid bb5 brakes. Battery mount is secure and doesn't rattle.

 

[dogman dan]

A 30 amps controller will quickly murder a cheaper 10 or 12 ah size lifepo4 battery. Those are meant for 15 amps controllers on smaller motors.

You will need a better c rate to use that controller, or a much larger, likely too large to carry well, battery.

Or a battery with better c rate, such as EM3ev or Grin sells.

Shitloads of great motor kits out there, but the battery tends to be expensive, or risky, or not last if you buy too weak types.

 

[hipergp]

Your Jamis specs appear to show "brifters", not separate shifters and brake levers. Just adding ebrake levers won't work without different shifters. There are cable pull sensors that can remedy this, and some people have put switches in their levers.

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Bingo. Not the cheapest, but the best.

You might look at golden motor Canada too, if Grin is too high.

The motor stuff is not where the money goes, it's the battery. You are still pretty screwed on that one, duties wise.

But you could build a battery from cells you buy from the Canadian Dr Bass. He gets Makita pack cells from time to time. No duties. 8)

There should be no duty importing lifepo4 batteries into Canada or USA.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/83732577/sports-leisure/bikes-scooters/scooters-electrically-powered/import-duty-rate-for-importing-lifepo4-battery-20amp-36-volt-from-china-to-canada-is-0/

Where you encounters fees is from the broker. Like UPS charges crazy brokerage fees based on the value of the product. Thats where you get hit hard.

Gary

 

[dilkes]

I appreciate all of your feedback so far.

I changed my profile to point out that I live in the Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, a.k.a. Earth's rectum. You pretty much have to have lived in this 'orrible place (it's really not that bad, but as a 'pegger I am duty-bound to complain about it) to fully appreciate what sucks about it.

Firstly, as a consumer. The selection here bites balls. The smartest shoppers here order things through US stores, have it shipped for free to some genius capitalist just over the US border (name of Crazy Todd or Harry Nutz or something, I can't remember), take a day trip to Fargo (Earth's perineum), and pray over their Arby's Roast Cheddar Curly Burger™ that they don't get cavity-searched attempting to smuggle it into Canada. The only thing more costly than the taxes and duties that I would be forced to pay to bring Chinese crap here from the US is the ridiculous brokerage fees of UPS, may they rot in hell. (I once imported a Panasonic camera manufactured in the US and was asked to pay $800 in brokerage fees.) And don't get me started on what kind of mess I'd be in if I had to ship something back, for say warranty issues.

Secondly, as a bike rider. People here hate cyclists. And I don't use that word lightly. I once had a guy in his pick-up truck cut me off, hug the curb so I couldn't pass and then hit the brakes, and then flip ME the bird. All in a company car. I bet if 100,000 'peggers read this post they would be all like "ha, ha, that was me!". And to be fair that's me too, when I'm not riding a bike. It's just a thing we have, something to be proud of. I think our water is infected with "rage", but strangely it only affects people's attitude towards cyclists. (Fist-bump fellow Winnipeggers, you know what I'm talkin' 'bout, "Kill 'em all!" … except me, please don't kill me. Please and thanks.)

The only way for me to stay alive is to stay off the streets as much as possible. The only way I can take the trails (until they ban ebikes on trails) is if my bike does less than 32kph. I will get lynched if I get into a kerfuffle on a trail riding an ebike, so best to keep it as legal as possible.

So to sum up. It will take some convincing to make me believe that I can have something shipped here for a reasonable price. After all, I'd sooner believe that it's because of our subsidies that you Yanks enjoy free shipping on everything. Also, I don't need a bike that will launch me into outer space, 32kph will do. My wet dream is to hear from some guy or gal who says they lived in Winnipeg or Saskatoon (Winnipeg's handsome but retarded cousin, who attracts chicks but doesn't know what to do with them) and ordered such and such awesome bike or kit from Farto's Bike Emporium in Newark and it was no sweat, fast and cheap shipping, yadda-yadda-yadda. A man can dream can't he?

Thanks again for all your feedback!

Interesting perspective on Winnipeg. I've never had the "pleasure" of being that close to the place.

Here in Toronto where we apparently "fart e-bikes", we have an association - the Toronto Electric Riders Association (TERA). Some of the discussion is about Toronto specific issues, but lots is about general stuff - technical, batteries, legal, etc. Many out-of-towners are members and you would be welcome to join at http://www.meetup.com/Electric-Bicycles/, and share in the information there. TERA members are also offered a discount from some of our sponsor dealers - including Golden Motor.

As for the Toronto scene:

• a good proportion of riders use "scooter-style" e-Bikes - that can look like gas scooters with pedals and that some bikers and purists hate,
• a large number have factory produced open-frame e-Bikes (like the Pedego you mentioned),
• and many have added kits like the Golden Motors one to conventional open-frame bikes

and some of us have both or even all 3!

There's info on all these options plus trikes, etc. on the site. If you join, the challenge sometimes is finding the info amidst all the clutter.

 

[dogman dan]

I was looking at the GM Canada site this morning, and they have a 48v 15 ah battery. No import duties or broker charges.

Pardon my ignorance about who is charging, I just know getting batteries to Canada is not always as easy as the US. Problems with HK, for example.