Commuter Build - looking for input

[sharp21]

Hi Gang,

I''m moving to Houston for work and am planning on building an ebike to commute with. I love to ride and it's a project I've always wanted to tackle.

My current bike is a GT Traffic 4.0 that I love. It's fast and easy to ride. I'm not sure if I should convert it or get a used bike and build it up. If I convert it I don't want to lose any of its sharp handling characteristics.

I don't know exactly where we will live yet but the commute should be no more than 15miles one way and I can plug in at work.

I've got $1k budgeted for the build.

What kind of setup should I start looking at that will meet those requirements?

S.

 

[dogman dan]

One that costs closer to $1500. :wink: Don't worry, at 10-15 bucks a day savings over using a car, it will pay for itself in a season. I'm not familiar with your bike, but you will want a solid handling bike for 30 miles a day. At least front suspension, and not a bendy cheap alloy frame bike from Walmart.

Yes, it can be done cheaper, I did it several times. And by mile 3000, I was on to much a better, more reliable kit. That was from e-bikekit.com. Yes I work there, so if you buy one chat with me first on the site so I get a few bucks more pay. Other kits will work fine too, but I'd stay with a quality vendor for a high mileage commute, rather than go with the cheapest. Grin Cyclery, E-bikekit, EM3ev.

You cannot skimp on it, and get a battery that lasts, and can be charged safely twice every day. Stash a charger at work, so you can plug in there. If you can't do that, you will need to carry a huge battery, and ride very slow to make it there and back every day.

It doesn't have to be the battery where I work, but it is a reliable one. EM3ev is another great source for a reliable battery.

You will want 48v 13 to 48v 15 ah for a 15 mile commute. 15 ah will be very tight that day when you ride into the wind blowing 30 mph for the whole ride. That would be the main reason to not buy the EBK 13 ah battery. The 20 ah is overkill, but would give you the commute if it's closer to 20 miles one way.

 

[arkmundi]

Houston - Where I was born & lived half my life - still visit occasionally with family. Advise? Recognize this is car city and still has a very long ways to go to make the streets safe for bikers. Best advise is to choose your place to live wisely. Like close to work to cut down road time. In any case, I put this thread together which you may find useful: Top 10 eBike Conversion Kits & Where to Buy. Best!

 

[sharp21]

Great breakdown, thanks! Great website too.

I realize Houston is not a biking metropolis but I'll be coming from Alberta and the potential to ride year round is enticing. I'll be moving as close to work as possible too.

With regards to ebike kits is a front or rear hub preferred? The rear hub seems to be the way to go for me but I'm not sure what the advantages of each are.

Looking at those battery packs I assume they get mounted on some kind of rack over the rear tire?

S.

 

[Drunkskunk]

If you like your GT the way it is, don't convert it. Fundamentally changing it's power source and tripling it's weight will ruin what it is right now. Of course, it will then be an awesome Ebike, but it will never be the same as it is now.

Grab something from Craigslist. Depending on how far your commute ends up will dictate what you need. If you live within 5 miles of work, most bikes will do. But if you're 15 miles away, you're going to need a strong framed bike that can take some abuse. Usually, a mountain bike is preferred to a hybrid for converting. Also, the skinny tires of a hybrid bike that make it roll so well won't cope with banging through Houston's potholes when the bike weighs 3 times as much. You'll want some nice fat tires to soak up the road. 2" wide or wider is good.

Sticking it in the front VS putting it in the rear is an age old debate. If you're the kind who likes a nice easy ride, putting one in the front can be great. If you're the kind who likes to get rough and dirty, then stick it in the rear and pound on it.
Yes, I really am talking about bike motors. Honest. For a commuter, it really makes no difference aside from your personal preference. However, the bike can dictate what you have to use. If you end up with a suspension fork, you'll have to use a rear motor. if you pick a bike with a coaster brake, you'll only have the option for a front motor, etc.

As for the battery, a rear rack is a valid option, but it should be the last resort. Carrying weight high over the rear wheel upsets the bike's balance. you'll feel the weight in every turn and corner, and the bike won't want to sit well on a kickstand. Just try it with the bike you have now. Stick a 6 pack of your favorite beverage on a rear rack and go for a ride. I'd bet it all seems fine for the first block, and gets annoying by the second. With a battery there, the bike will always behave that way.
Instead, try to mount the battery in the triangle. that's the balance point of the bike, and while the bike will handle heavier, it won't change the balance characteristics much to carry the battery in there.
The second choice is a handlebar basket or case. while it sounds like it would be as unstable as a rear rack, the handlebars are closer to the balance point for the bike than a rear rack is, so keeping the batteries there will affect the handling less.

 

[e-beach]

Do you do RC lipo airplanes or copters? If you really know what you are doing then RC lipo can give you lower cost amp hours and high current output (high C ratings). But they can also catch fire. If you want to go with a dependable and durable LiFEPO4, then up your budget by about 1/3.

In Los Angeles I run around on a Yescomusa front hub motor. It has been very dependable for me and didn't cost too much. I am slowly building another bike with a rear hub Yescomusa kit because I want a second bike and think a rear hub motor is probably better for quick maneuvers. These kits are basic but dependable. If you decide to go with ebikes.ca or EM3, their kits might install a bit easier, but they cost more. I would recommend a rear hub motor for a first timer. Maybe a bit easier to install. Although I don't have one, they tell me that a geared hub motor is better for stop and go traffic.

Don't convert your good bike. Get a durable mountain bike with good suspension and simple rear dropouts and a big open triangle to put the battery pack and maybe the controller into. It is far better weight distribution then putting the batteries on a rack, front or back.

I roll around on 15ah Headway pack and am moving onto 5000 miles with them. They still get me 20 miles of a full charge around here.
They don't have the C output of other types of cells, but sure have been durable and dependable. I can fully charge them in 90 minutes with my 12amp charger.

Hope this helps.

 

[motomech]

Hi Gang,

I''m moving to Houston for work and am planning on building an ebike to commute with. I love to ride and it's a project I've always wanted to tackle.

My current bike is a GT Traffic 4.0 that I love. It's fast and easy to ride. I'm not sure if I should convert it or get a used bike and build it up. If I convert it I don't want to lose any of its sharp handling characteristics.

I don't know exactly where we will live yet but the commute should be no more than 15miles one way and I can plug in at work.

I've got $1k budgeted for the build.

What kind of setup should I start looking at that will meet those requirements?

S.

That bike would be good for a low-power kit.
I would recommend a small "mini-motor" with a bottle battery. That is the most popular format with beginners and those looking for an assist without changing the feel of the bicycle.
Since it has a steel fork, a frt. motor could be used leaving the rear drive intact.
Many of us here like the "Cute"system which is the Q100 motor made by Ananda.
Recently, a new sine wave controller has been added as an option, which is tiny, smooth and has computor\display that is really slick.
Here is a list of what you would need;

http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/633-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/567-bottle-ebike-battery-controller.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/accessory/611-thumb-level-throttle.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/accessory/612-thumb-level-throttle.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/accessory/459-hwbs-hidden-wire-brake-sensor.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm.html

For buying options, select 260 for the wheel motor speed and SO6S for the intergrated controller.
With the intergrated controller, I'm not sure if PAS(pedal assist sensor) is available, but I don't think it's that needed with this set-up. If you really needed it, you might have to go with an external controller.
Top speed would be about 20 mph and with the great gearing the GT has, you could add a could mph pedaling.
Range would be about 20 miles.
I think shipping would be around $200(you can go thru the ordering process w\out buying to see), making for a $500 system.
Lot's of info on various Cute builds here, but I think the frt. 260 rpm motor would be the right stuff for that bike.

Here is a thread you might find interesting;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34400&p=499623&hilit=cute+front+bottle+battery#p499623

 

[wesnewell]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

Buy a bike with steel dropouts, then stick one of these or many similar ones from ebay on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/231132763662
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-eBike-Rear-Wheel-48V-1000W-/370934929537
Top speed will be around 30mph.
Either build or buy a baatery pack with at least 400wh to go 15 miles at 20mph. More if you want to go faster. That will cost $200 and up depending on what you get.
if you shop smart, you can build it for a total cost of under $800. Or you can spend 3 times that much and not get much more.

 

[sharp21]

Great replies, thanks all! And I've updated my profile.

So the options are:

* Mod my bike with a lightweight setup.

* Get a Craigslist mountain bike and add a rear hub drive from ebay.

What about a Bafang mid-drive? I read the install on one of the links in this thread and it sounded like a fairly easy install with great performance.

I have exactly Zero experience with RC cars, batteries, or the like. I'm fairly handy but am looking for a plug and play solution.

Great advice regarding fatter tires for soaking up potholes.

Honestly I'm leaning towards the lightweight set up. I saw some bikes built by a German fellow named Nader (on this site?) that really speak to me. I love the water bottle set up and could build 2 battery packs; one for at work and one for at home. Just swap them out on either side.

What kind of performance is gained by going to a twin 250w setup?

S.

 

[e-beach]

.....What kind of performance is gained by going to a twin 250w setup?.....S.

About as much as you would get out of a single wheel 500w setup. The differences would be that you would need dual throttles, duel controllers and a way to connect your battery pack to all the dual electronics. The tradeoff is that you "probably" wouldn't need a torque arm.

Can you build a single throttle to control two controllers? As I recall it has been done, but, if you can't, then one throttle in each hand will have to suffice. That means more costs in electronics and a funky setup on your handle bars, not to mention double the risk of electronics failure.

As it is 500w isn't all that powerful especially considering that 1000w isn't that much more expensive.

My recommendation for a first build is to get a good 48v 1000w rear wheel system and put a 15ah battery in the triangle if at all possible.

 

[sharp21]

Well that is 2 votes for a 48v 1000w system. Looking at it closer it seems cost effective and is probably a great way to go for a first build.

So where do I start looking for a battery pack?

S.

 

[Paderolis]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

Buy a bike with steel dropouts, then stick one of these or many similar ones from ebay on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/231132763662
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-eBike-Rear-Wheel-48V-1000W-/370934929537
Top speed will be around 30mph.
Either build or buy a baatery pack with at least 400wh to go 15 miles at 20mph. More if you want to go faster. That will cost $200 and up depending on what you get.
if you shop smart, you can build it for a total cost of under $800. Or you can spend 3 times that much and not get much more.

I purchased my RHM kit from the eBay seller in wesnewell's first link and had a nice buying experience! I got the kit with the digital display readout and PAS, and it works great!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119531800?var=590270766583&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[Drunkskunk]

Until you know your exact route, any advice on specific motors and batteries is pointless. You might end up next door to your office, or you might end up at the top of the most epic hill in all of Houston, accessible only by the freeway. But we can generalize on things that might be options.

Each type of motor and battery combo has advantages and disadvantages. What will be perfect for one situation will be a failure in another.

Direct drive cruise well, are nearly zero maintenance, and are silent, but don't accelerate as well as geared drives.

Geared hubs accelerate and climb well, but aren't silent or as efficient as Direct drive while cruising.

Mid drives climb well and have the widest range of speed and climbing ability, but they aren't silent, aren't as efficient, and need maintenance to the drive line regularly.

Friction drives. Just... don't bother.

And there are hundreds of variations on each motor, and the possibility to use multiple motors of the same, or mixed variety. Then there are thousands of combinations with the various types of battery.
The end result is millions of various combinations. Only a few will be right for your needs, and you're not yet sure what those needs are.

Check out these websites for more ideas. ebike.ca em3ev.com

 

[e-beach]

Well that is 2 votes for a 48v 1000w system. Looking at it closer it seems cost effective and is probably a great way to go for a first build. So where do I start looking for a battery pack? S.

The battery depends on your motor / controller combo....and as Drunkskunk said, how far you want to go. When you purchase your battery make sure it can handle the amps your controller is drawing. For instance a 15 amp hour 2C LiFePO4 battery can handle a 30 amp controller.

I have had a good experience with my Headways from http://headway-headquarters.com My battery pack and controller from them have been rock solid for a little over 4500 miles, but I can not recommend their customer service. Jim D. over there is a wealth of knowledge, but their accountant makes everybody send every thing back regardless of the problem. It could cost you time and maybe postage if they decide not to refund the postage.

For other LiFePO4 options,
http://www.ebikes.ca,
http://www.pingbattery.com,
and sun thing on ebay.
http://stores.ebay.com/sun-thing28/LiFePO4-battery-/_i.html?_fsub=2328193016

For other well respected battery packs also look into http://www.emissions-free.com

If you want to do RC Lipo then http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/index.asp is where most people go. Just be sure to order from the USA warehouse and only order if they have the items in stock.

 

[sharp21]

Is there a good primer on RC Lipo? I understand that they are powerful but can be dangerous...

 

[wesnewell]

So where do I start looking for a battery pack?

I build my own using rc lipo from hobbyking.com. I don't like any of the prebuilt stuff. I can put together a 20ah 12s lipo pack in minutes. In less time than that I can change it to a 10ah 24s pack or make 4 5ah 12s packs out of it. I use the cheaper 20C rated lipo. Got over 3 years and 12K miles on it without a problem. Current pack (10ah 24s2p 88.8V) is a little over 2 years old and still has at least 90% capacity. Cost $275. You'd probably want a 20ah 12s pack. That would get you back and forth to work on a single charge. If you decide on going with another type, just make sure it can provide at least a 30A ouput. A 20C 20ah 12s pack is would be rated for 400A. A 20ah lifepo4 pack may be rated for 40A and will cost you nearly all of your buget when you add shipping. Personally, I wouldn't touch one of these things with a 10' pole. You really need to learn a lot about batteies before you decide what to get. And you really have to watch the ratings on them. If you don't know what C rates are, learn that first.
Here's some info to start.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargable_batteries

 

[akadocbt]

So where do I start looking for a battery pack?

I build my own using rc lipo from hobbyking.com. I don't like any of the prebuilt stuff. I can put together a 20ah 12s lipo pack in minutes. In less time than that I can change it to a 10ah 24s pack or make 4 5ah 12s packs out of it. I use the cheaper 20C rated lipo. Got over 3 years and 12K miles on it without a problem. Current pack (10ah 24s2p 88.8V) is a little over 2 years old and still has at least 90% capacity. Cost $275. You'd probably want a 20ah 12s pack. That would get you back and forth to work on a single charge. If you decide on going with another type, just make sure it can provide at least a 30A ouput. A 20C 20ah 12s pack is would be rated for 400A. A 20ah lifepo4 pack may be rated for 40A and will cost you nearly all of your buget when you add shipping. Personally, I wouldn't touch one of these things with a 10' pole. You really need to learn a lot about batteies before you decide what to get. And you really have to watch the ratings on them. If you don't know what C rates are, learn that first.
Here's some info to start.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargable_batteries

What would you use if building a 20ah 12s pack today? Running 36V 30A controller on a 24V 500W 28a motor overvolted presently to 36V.

 

[wesnewell]

What would you use if building a 20ah 12s pack today?

Since I already have adapter cables made that turn 3 4s plugs into 2 6s balance plugs, I'd use 12 4s 20c 5000mah hardcase packs. I'd also use them if I was going ro put a bms on it. At 31 cents per wh, they are the best deal around. Otherwise I'd use 8 20C 5000mah 6s packs. No adapter cables needed to plug into a 12s charger, but they'd cost ~$100 more.

 

[akadocbt]

Which brand?

 

[arkmundi]

Great breakdown, thanks! Great website too.

I realize Houston is not a biking metropolis but I'll be coming from Alberta and the potential to ride year round is enticing. I'll be moving as close to work as possible too.

Oh no, Alberta to Houston? Are you part of the planet wrecking crew doing the Alberta Tar Sands? And moving to Houston to move up in the Exxon/Mobil/Transcanada corporate empire? Riding to work on an eBike? The Irony is just too much ... hhahahaaaahhaaa :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[sharp21]

Great breakdown, thanks! Great website too.

I realize Houston is not a biking metropolis but I'll be coming from Alberta and the potential to ride year round is enticing. I'll be moving as close to work as possible too.

Oh no, Alberta to Houston? Are you part of the planet wrecking crew doing the Alberta Tar Sands? And moving to Houston to move up in the Exxon/Mobil/Transcanada corporate empire? Riding to work on an eBike? The Irony is just too much ... hhahahaaaahhaaa :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's a lot of assumptions you've got going. None of which are correct - except for the ebike!
S.

 

[wesnewell]

Turnigy makes the 4a hardcase packs, so that's what Id buy. I had some 15C Zippy's before, and even used some no name 10C stuff in a 18s2p config. All worked.

 

[akadocbt]

Thanks, I have been going back and forth for a month trying to decide just exactly what I wanted to do and buy. Have to decide on charger now.