Controller comparison Nucular 24F, Power Velocity 25

[HCx]

Hi All,

I'm looking at the two controllers listed above. The Nucular 24F and the PowerVelocity 25Kw

The prices between the two are close enough that I'm having a hard time deciding between them, Or even identifying meaningful differences between them. I made the following chart below but i'm curious if i'm missing anything that makes one controller a 'better' choice over the other. I'm pretty sure both would be satisfactory for my needs but I'd appreciate any thoughts the community has to add.

 

[j bjork]

So far it is only 400 phaseA on power velocity. If it will be 600 it sounds really nice. No display though. For the nucular you will need the display, it is needed to setup the controller.

 

[HCx]

So far it is only 400 phaseA on power velocity. If it will be 600 it sounds really nice. No display though. For the nucular you will need the display, it is needed to setup the controller.

Yeah, the PV website says 600A phase, and his thread says 400, and he also says the mosfets can take up to 676. So i'm guessing it's just a matter of testing?

 

[HK12K]

Would you prefer a display and 100 more battery amps, or more phase amps? Personally I'd take the display. 500 phase is nothing to sneeze at, but it depends on your application.

 

[john61ct]

Do both equally live up to "truly FOC"?

______
Are these features / phrases
"direct access to the halls and phases"
"phase current control"
"hall delay/advance"
"current sensor on each phase connection, directly measure amps for each phase"

all synonymous with true FOC?

From the Nucular thread:
> Nucular controllers use shunts on the battery side and some math to calculate phase amps.

Does this imply **not** not controlling as per some of those above phrases?
______

This sort of rave from such a high-caliber member would count for a lot, to me
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1523769#p1523769

In my case I'm intending to keep multiple motors in sync, and need maximum torque control at the low rpm ranges, so this issue might be nit-picky in your case?

 

[John in CR]

From the Nucular thread:
> Nucular controllers use shunts on the battery side and some math to calculate phase amps.

Does this imply **not** not controlling as per some of those above phrases?
______

That is not correct AFAIK. It's battery amps that are a calculation not from a shunt, so energy usage measurement on the display is not as accurate as a CA. The reason I believe that Nucs accurately measure phase amps is the such precise torque control that you have, and the resulting throttle control simply can't be improved upon once you tune it to your liking. The CA3 tries to control torque with a calculation from measured battery amps, but that control fall woefully short of the Nuc's precision and tunability. I'm running 20kw peak output from the battery with dual 12F Nuc's, so I understand the need for precise control.

If don't have experience with the new PV controller. Where's the beta testers discussion? What mosfets are used?

What motor are you running that you think needs these capabilities?

 

[Ohbse]

+1 for the Nucular. It's the full package. Control, power, reliability, feature set, support.

I'm running 500 phase 250a battery on a Surron and it's absolutely fantastic. I've owned most controller brands, in some cases many variants - this is easily the best solution for lightweight EVs (and even some less light weight to be honest) that's out there right now. I'm stoked John has had the experience of running high quality controllers. Once you've had one, it's bloody hard to go back.

I own a number of VESC based controllers (like the PV) and while there's a lot of good there, I would much, much rather interact with the Nucular through the display.

It's also well proven at this point, vs being a very early adopter of the PV. Your only real challenge is going to be the wait list to get a 24f due to the demand.

 

[John in CR]

Once you've had one, it's bloody hard to go back.

Absolutely. I'm stuck now either borrowing my son's short range slow ebike (90kph max) that has a 12F Nuc or my 110kg scooter (130kph max) with a 70's Cadillac type of ride on small tires with it's dual 12F's, while my other faster rides sit parked just keeping an eye not to let battery voltages get too low.

I am going to give dual FOC PV's a try only because Vasily at Nucular has too much to do before high voltage Nucs become a reality, and now that I've experienced FOC and torque throttle and variable regen I crave it for my MadAss. Plus I can boost up the current from the limitations of my old Zombiess custom high voltage 24's that have served me well, but on the 40kg+ heavier bike than my old SuperV I don't get the same "slaughter anything in sight" launches that I miss. The PV bluetooth interface is a big step up from the old connecting my bike to a computer only to have very limited tuning adjustments, but I'll use the CA3 already on board for my display and consumption stats.

Using the Nucular display to program things, and the self setup including hall sensor position correction is the berries, especially with a 6 phase motor requiring dual controllers. It used to be a relax and drink a beer or two to get wiring right with as many as 12 wire swaps and jumper wires everywhere to make swapping easy to get dual controllers going. Now with the Nucs I can hard wire everything except the hall connectors. Turn one controller on, set the poll pairs to 10, and run auto setup. If it spins in reverse, swap 2 halls (or phases if that's easier for you), and run auto setup again and that controller is done and disable it's input. Turn the other controller on and repeat the process. Enable the first controller again and wiring is done. Then simply configure the current limits for power and braking, battery, and whatever else you want to do before you ride...Save settings and go.

Sure there are so many features and settings that there's a bit of a learning curve to get things perfect, but it's all pretty clear and straight forward thru the display, and Nucular support is good if you have problems. The feature list is so long that a bit of complexity and a small learning curve for setup is unavoidable.

 

[HCx]

What motor are you running that you think needs these capabilities?

I'm planning on running the QS138 motor in a converted Motoped. Right now i'll be limited on my max amperage from my initial pack (20S10P Samsung ICR18650-22P) but will be building a higher amperage pack down the line and don't want to purchase another controller to deal with that when I get to it.

Thank you all for your feedback. It sounds like i'd probably be hard pressed to go wrong with either one and most of the differences come down to personal preferences (voltage needs and display)

I just wasn't sure if there was something I was missing.