Cooling fans inside Hub motors

[kiwiev]

Ok will grab some pipe, I thought the stator would push against the 2 top beams and the jack would push axle thru the 2 beams.
Or am I missing something......

I can leave the jack press you anyway

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Ok will grab some pipe, I thought the stator would push against the 2 top beams and the jack would push axle thru the 2 beams.
Or am I missing something......

I can leave the jack press you anyway

Cheers

Your right, without some pipe the bare stator will push against the 2 top beams, but onto the bare copper windings. I'm just not too sure the bare copper windings would handle 4.5t of pressure without being destroyed or wearing/cutting through the thin insulation. If the pipe doesn't work, I will still try it without, but will probably spread and pad the load as much as possible so as to not damage the windings.

Hopefully we can get it all done in one go, but having the jack a bit longer will surely help not to rush things if your not round for long, thanks.

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

I will bring some small plates that have 21mm and 17mm holes in them, we can slide over axle and then slip under the top beam of jack that should keep stator and coils off top beam.

We just need to get both bearings off.

Cheers

 

[Offroader]

I'm really happy with my current cooling setup. Without the fan on I'll push towards 90C and higher if I don't keep an eye on the temperature.

I just turn on the EDF fan and it will push the temps back down to 73C quickly and will stay around there no matter how hard I push the bike.

This is with hot 30C summer heat also.

It is still a weird feeling being able to drive the bike as hard as I want without overheating.

I can now turn up the battery amps for even more power/wattage without worry of overheating, so I am experimenting with that right now.

Funny thing is like coward duck mentioned, the fan noise does grow on you and you start to actually like it. I don't hear it above say 10-15MPH anyway as the wind noise will be louder.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Awesome stuff Offroader, glad to hear your liking it. I hope others will try and report on this mod also.

Conrad (kiwiev) and I met up today to try and change over my axle...but it didn't go so well. When we tried to remove my old HS4065 axle which was good, it bent instead of pushing through. Conrad is going to try and bend it back and get it out so we'll see how that goes.

Conrad suggested a local faster place might be able to rethread my axle to a slightly smaller and I'm glad he did since I have no idea what else to try. Failing that, and the other epoxy idea, I might just have to throw in the towel and get a different motor...the MXUS 3000 is looking great.

Cheers

 

[Offroader]

I was hoping and was going to say just get a MXUS 3000. It will be interesting to see how well that motor works air cooled because I might consider that motor for a more light weight build.

Those crystalyte motors I don't think are as good as the MXUS 3000 motors.

 

[kiwiev]

Good first meet turn up and wreck your hub lol.

Hope you aren't just being nice about it.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Nah mate...that thing was sitting in my shed for nearly a year! The only plans I had for it was a re-wind, but now that I realise the axle, stator lamination thickness and stator core are all inferior to the (relatively) cheap MXUS so I'm not at all worried.
In fact...the way this is going, the MXUS is looking more and more likely.
The fastener place in Fyshwick got back to me today saying they can't do it, but pointed me to an engineering (welding) place around the corner that might...we'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.

Worst comes to worst I'll get the MXUS, but at this stage I can still try and epoxy thread repair on the axle and hope for the best. I guess the other option is to weld along the axle and recut the thread, but I don't have the tools for that.

Another option I'm contemplating is clamping the dropout slot...they are not clamping dropouts, but that doesn't mean they can't be clamped does it?
I mean the end is open ended, and the slot is about 50mm long so there should be a bit of flex...in fact it's that flex that I think is part of the problems I've experienced with my axles over the years.

What do you think? Would clamping a dropout not meant for clamping be asking for trouble...or potentially fix all my issues?

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

I think clamping could be an option. If you can wait I will bring your bike hitch up and Halliburton weld it will work but you will need to heated to 400 deg to get it off again.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Yeah, I might give that a miss - lol :lol:

I'm looking seriously at a Leaf Motor now:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=66489&start=450#p1077389

It is cheaper, lighter and has a 14mm axle so less issues there.

If I get it, I would be doing the fans mod again...maybe fans on each side this time for 12 total!

But for the HS4080, I will see what the engineering place comes back with...if they can't do it for less than 50 bucks I might just have a go myself with epoxy. If that doesn't work I'll sell it to someone who can repair or replace the axle themselves...they will be getting a bargain with the amount of work I've put into it!

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

had some success with your crank today Blake

see attached I MPI crack tested it that's the white paint, a couple of small indications hopefully it will be OK :|

its slightly bigger on the square flats so you may have to grind a wee bit.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Samd]

Yeah, I might give that a miss - lol :lol:

I'm looking seriously at a Leaf Motor now:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=66489&start=450#p1077389

It is cheaper, lighter and has a 14mm axle so less issues there.

If I get it, I would be doing the fans mod again...maybe fans on each side this time for 12 total!

But for the HS4080, I will see what the engineering place comes back with...if they can't do it for less than 50 bucks I might just have a go myself with epoxy. If that doesn't work I'll sell it to someone who can repair or replace the axle themselves...they will be getting a bargain with the amount of work I've put into it!

Cheers

I am a bit amazed at the cheaper comment. I had thought the landed price was about the same. Although you certianly get the smaller stator for lower weight.
But from memory the leaf only has a pressed stator case? If so you might be drilling side covers again.
How many kilowatts are you running CD?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

had some success with your crank today Blake

see attached I MPI crack tested it that's the white paint, a couple of small indications hopefully it will be OK :|

its slightly bigger on the square flats so you may have to grind a wee bit.

Cheers Kiwi

Wow! Great stuff mate! I reckon it should be fine. Thanks heaps! It will be good to get a 3rd E-Bike up and running...particularly since I'm currently down to 0 functioning after another flat on my commuter today destroyed the tube and I have no spares (yet...ordered some over 2 weeks ago :x ).

I am a bit amazed at the cheaper comment. I had thought the landed price was about the same. Although you certianly get the smaller stator for lower weight.
But from memory the leaf only has a pressed stator case? If so you might be drilling side covers again.
How many kilowatts are you running CD?

Well for the bare motor it's $260 landed...so similar...weren't the MXUS $300 landed? I might still be convinced otherwise...particularly if I can't figure something out with the shorter Leaf axle fitting into the Fighters mammoth wide dropouts.
I'm kinda liking the idea of another shot at proving this fan cooling stuff though, so the pressed stator works better for that cause the holes are already there. So yeah, drilling side covers again.

Kilowatts is always variable, and changing on my setups. In the past I ran 6KW+ on my HS4065, but that cooked it. Since shifting down to 12S I can't really go past about 100A max, so 5KW hot off the charger if I were to use my 18Fet, but the Mini-E is limited to 65A...for now. So reality will be 3KW peak...more than sane for this motor.

Cheers

 

[Samd]

Just reading about your axle width issues. I did get some custom 170mm width axles made for Mxus in conjunction with Kinaye motorsports. I'll stop spamming the thread - PM for details...

 

[kiwiev]

Hey Blake

Here is your bike hitch

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Here is your bike hitch

Thanks so awesome mate. Thanks a million!

The open ended channel should mean the length of my bike doesn't matter so much.

I'll have to try and make it down some time soon. I've ordered a Leaf Motor for my Stealth, and am going to try epoxying my HS4080 axle this weekend...it might still live again, but for how long I don't know....the small axle has always and will always cause me problems I think.

I ordered the Leaf Motor with a 16mm axle nut size...there's no way that's going to have rotation issues!!!
Once I get it, I will do this same cooling mod. It's a lighter motor with 35mm laminations vs the 40mm of the HS40xx motors, but it's 90+% efficient, so it's roughly the same as the HS40xx motors in terms of performance. Cooling it with fans will sure make for a great light weight power house.

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

So Kiwiev (Conrad) and I went for a ride today.
I still haven't been able to get my axle repaired, but gave it a shot anyway. The nuts weren't on very tight, but it still felt solid when riding. Going down a hill I decided to do a bit of regen...BIG MISTAKE!
[youtube]DcegHq0HCbk[/youtube]

So anyway, this resulted in the phase wires shorting somewhere in the axle. It must only be a minor short as we were able to pull on the wires and it stopped, so we zip tied them in place and I was able to ride home pedalling.

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

Furk mate your were so lucky it wasn't round that next corner lol

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Yup...I reckon there's someone upstairs looking out for me for sure.

I'll try and do a longer vid of the ride and post it up in my Fighter video's thread.

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

What's also incredible, and I only just realised...is that the derailleur kept working!
If you look in the video, you can see the gauge it left in the ground, but it kept working enough to shift all the way home.

There's something to be said for dirt cheap derailleur's also, since that's what it was...just a cheap Sunrace piece of crap. I've got another one ready to go to replace this one soon as it's wobbling internally.

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

Well I had a win and NO I WASNT PUSHING THE WRONG SIDE

I straightened up the thread too

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Cowardlyduck]

We managed to revive this motor over the weekend. Thanks Conrad!

One of the fans died...not sure when, but it was easy enough to replace...this is why I have spares.

I suspect it died from either being bashed around when the axle was being replaced etc, or from too high voltage. I've run these fans at over 9V each (when my full pack voltage is over 54V) a few times and can hear them revving up/down in complaint.

The epoxy was on pretty tight, but a bit of heat and a screwdriver got it off, then the new one was epoxied in the same place and soldered into it's neighbours in series. Testing shows it works well.

Cheers

 

[kiwiev]

Yeah the Grandad press isn't gentle lol

But it works

Ps I found my file yesterday,

Cant wait to see how it all works with controller and axle mods.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[litespeed]

I have my fans, Sprayon coating, more DP480 epoxy for the magnets and new halls coming by the end of the week. I'll drill the one cover and paint both flat black to try and help with the radiant heat a bit. Hope to have my heating woes in check soon!

I'll update your other thread when I'm done with the results. Finger crossed!

Tom

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I have my fans, Sprayon coating, more DP480 epoxy for the magnets and new halls coming by the end of the week. I'll drill the one cover and paint both flat black to try and help with the radiant heat a bit. Hope to have my heating woes in check soon!

It's been a while...I don't remember exactly what you were doing litespeed? What motor/fans were you going to run?

I made a bit more progress on my motor tonight...I forgot how long all this soldering takes!

I didn't completely cut off the old wires at the base of the phases. Instead I overlapped the new wires with the old and used a ton of solder basically making a super fat phase wires at that point.

I used the same approach as previously with heatshrink on the wires through the axle replacing the silicone for a smaller cross-section of the total wire diameter.

I plan to solder the phases to 8AWG just outside the axle also this time...should make for beefy performance.

I also took the same aproach, replacing the silicone with heat shrink on some 20AWG I will use for the fans.

Last time I messed up and accidentally used the 20AWG I had intended for the fans for the halls power instead, but didn't realise until I had sealed everything back up...needless to say I didn't get around to fixing it till now.

This time around I will also be using 36AWG Teflon coated wire for all the halls, including power, meaning the only wires that are not 36AWG Teflon will be for the fans and phases.
This should save a good amount of space through the axle and mean I don't have to grind it down as much to fit the bigger wire loom.

Cheers