Coreless Brushed dc motor Designing

[liveforphysics]

Scratch building a 'good' brushed motor is radically more challenging and costly than scratch building brushless.

Building an ironless motor with high continuous power handling is more difficult than making an iron core motor with high continous power density.

In my experience, building motors or controllers from scratch has generally been at least a full order of magnitude more costly than buying something off the shelf.

If your goal is to have the experience of building a coreless brushed motor, go for it.

If your goal is to end up with a working high efficiency drivetrain on a budget, just save up and buy one. Cheapest option with the shortest path and highest odds of success.

 

[big]

If cost cutting and applying relatively lower man hours,I might have to go with ACIM(AC Induction motor).

Advantages.
Easy availability
wave wiring
no magnet used
same rotor can be placed
no brushed

disadvantages.
Controller cost are generally high
driving is complex
relatively lower efficiency when compared to PM Motors
Any Comments?

 

[riba2233]

Ac induction is hardest to drive. BLDC is better because you have a wide choice of cheap controller, it doesn't need programming, so you can just plug it and drive, and the only difference is that it has magnets on rotor, and they are not hard to install.

 

[Honk]

Do you have, or know of, a BLDC with windings on the rotor?

That's not what I said. I didn't mention BLDC, just elimination iron.
When the windings is the rotor it can of course not be brushless.
And this is exactly what BIG wants....a brushed coreless motor.

 

[major]

Do you have, or know of, a BLDC with windings on the rotor?

That's not what I said. I didn't mention BLDC, just elimination iron.
When the windings is the rotor it can of course not be brushless.
And this is exactly what BIG wants....a brushed coreless motor.

I'm sorry. I thought it was about this:

BLDC means Brushless DC and Coreless is an elimination of rotor iron.

I think we agree. And also the OP has moved past the idea anyway.

 

[big]

Hello People,
I figure it out finally that I would be building a PMSM motor for my purpose. Any Previous project of this motor is welcome.

 

[major]

Hello People,
I figure it out finally that I would be building a PMSM motor for my purpose. Any Previous project of this motor is welcome.

Yesterday it was ACIM. Today PMSM. Started with Coreless Brushed DC. Maybe we could get a better feel if you told us what you intend to drive with it. A 5 to 6 kW bicycle? While you're at it, can you list your location so we can see where you're coming from. Thanks.

 

[Punx0r]

PMSM = BLDC, no?

 

[major]

PMSM = BLDC, no?

Found this on my first google search hit:

The BLDC and PMSM motors can be the same or different depending on the researchers' views. Basically they are synchronous motors with permanent magnets attached on their rotors.
Some researchers define a BLDC motor is a PMSM with trapezoidal BEMF, while a BLAC is a pmsm with sinusoidal BEMF.
The drive techniques for BLDCMs and sinusoidal PMSMS are quite different, as I said, depending on BEMF shape, but drive techniques for BLDCMs (typically 2-phase excitation) can be applied to PMSMS, and vice versa.

by: Mr. Pongpit Wipasuramonton

 

[Punx0r]

Heh, more to it than I realised

OP: Just buy a motor...

 

[big]

My main motive is an easiness in building an very efficient motor of my own with low complexity and readily available parts.
So I read about this PMSM motor that it provide a lot of advantages and is easily adaptable for my application of all electric motorcycle.
So my question arises that how does the coil and magnets are to be pls ed in the donor stator and rotor.


I am very pleased to look at the support that people provide.My every doubts gets cleared quickly.

 

[major]

My main motive is an easiness in building an very efficient motor of my own with low complexity and readily available parts.
So I read about this PMSM motor that it provide a lot of advantages and is easily adaptable for my application of all electric motorcycle.

O.K. So it is for a motorcycle. Thanks. Now if you could tell us where you're from, perhaps we could understand the use of language in your next question better.

So my question arises that how does the coil and magnets are to be pls ed in the donor stator and rotor.

So I guess you want to take an existing motor and use its rotor and stator but do something differently? Do you have an example?

 

[big]

My area uses 220v Ac /50 Hz power sources,I hope that's the details required.

 

[big]

First trial would be conducted on the following stator ,Its a 1/8 HP Ac Motor

 

[big]

First trial would be conducted on the following stator ,Its a 1/8 HP Ac Motor

 

[amberwolf]

My area uses 220v Ac /50 Hz power sources,I hope that's the details required.

Unfortunately that's pretty much completely irrelevant, unless you are powering the motorcycle by a very long extension cord.

The stator you have there is 36 teeth, and an inrunner. You'll need to decide how many magnets you want to install on the rotor you'll be building to replace the original one (which looks like it's an induction motor, at a guess), and what winding pattern you're going to use, as well as the number of phases.

 

[big]

Thats right,Cord wouldn't be a good choose though,But I hope that my range can only be limited by My power cord.

I am Planing to go with wave winding like in ac motor because its easy to wound ,and I hope to get large 4 Magnets in my rotor for my purpose.
According to formula- n=120*f/poles
N=120*400/4 = 12,000Rpm.

 

[major]

Interesting little motor. Appears to have been an aluminum cage induction motor. Do you know the pole count originally? If I might make a suggestion, wind the stator first and test with the existing cage rotor. That could demonstrate a correct winding. Then make the modifications to the rotor for a PMSM. Fixing the magnets for 12kRPM will be a challenge, but at least it is a small diameter.

 

[big]

Hello Major,
I am trying the same scenario with the motor,I.e I would Wound the motor as my specs and then snapback the same rotor(aluminium one),So as to get the feeling of how it is going to work and after that I,ll go with the magnets Rotor.
But apart from that I am Stuck at PMSM Motor Controller.
Any Suggestions for motor Controller?