Could you power a small car on two X5 motors
- Thread starter morph999
- Start date
icecube57
10 MW
For a homebrew build possibly a one or two seater not a full 1 ton car. If you really wanna get technical and fabricate something i would use the 5304 or 5305 like a stoke monkey and use a gearing system with proper ratios. A PERM or Etek motor would be more appropriate. Run it at a decent voltage like 72v. It could easily go 50mph on decent terrain. It will have a tremendous amount of torque. Its hard to get two motors to syncronize and run together at the same speed. But it is possible. There is a guy that built a buggy out of pvc pipes it was super light and seated two and had a small motor did about 25 i believe ill post link I can find it.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Most Americans will not want to sacrifice the range, comfort and safety of conventional autos.
When gas got rationed in the 1970's, lot's of Citicars were sold (~2,600 units). They ran on PbA and 3hp motors (an x5 is >6hp). But when gas got cheap again, most owners went back to gassers.
The PHEV can have most of the features that American drivers demand, but they will not be cheap.
The three-wheel EVs with two seats will be more affordable, at the sacrifice of range, safety features and space.
When gas got rationed in the 1970's, lot's of Citicars were sold (~2,600 units). They ran on PbA and 3hp motors (an x5 is >6hp). But when gas got cheap again, most owners went back to gassers.
The PHEV can have most of the features that American drivers demand, but they will not be cheap.
The three-wheel EVs with two seats will be more affordable, at the sacrifice of range, safety features and space.
northernmike
10 kW
Morph I think it's possible.
One of the coolest cars I've ever seen runs 8 wheels with a 100hp hubmotor in each. This is the Eliica:
My guess is that the dividing of the weight up between so many motors is what makes it feasible.
Now if you were to do the same with 8 bicycle hubmotors, that would be interesting. I would think very small wheels would be better, 10 or 16 inch. That way the car doesn't have to be 16 feet long. Even 6 motors might do the trick.
One of the coolest cars I've ever seen runs 8 wheels with a 100hp hubmotor in each. This is the Eliica:
My guess is that the dividing of the weight up between so many motors is what makes it feasible.
Now if you were to do the same with 8 bicycle hubmotors, that would be interesting. I would think very small wheels would be better, 10 or 16 inch. That way the car doesn't have to be 16 feet long. Even 6 motors might do the trick.
They're getting closer, as far as things the general public may want. Something tiny, ultralight, short ranged, complicated chargers, etc. won't interest the everyman. I think the best hope that's come to market recently is the Tesla Model S. 300 mile range, 45 minute charge on any standard outlet, 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, seats 5 adults + 2 kids, cargo space like a wagon... it's a heck of a car. It's 50K right now, but it's also brand new, and quite nice. I'd say it appears to be every bit as nice as any other 50K car. They're working their way down in price, next up should be something civic-ish. I hope, anyway.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
TylerDurden, have you considered converting once of your Citicars to brushless motors and Lithium?
I was thinking about those things the other day when looking over some old notes. I bet the range could be double just off the weight reduction and efficancy gain.
The biggest waste of power on my friend's Citicar was starting from a standstill at trafic lights. there was no way to limit current, and he was forever blowing fuses when trying to take passangers. I think he said it cost him like 30% range and he had been working to build a current sensor but never got it working. That was the dark age of contactors, now with cheap kelly 200 amp controllers and cheap 48volt Lithium, not to mention 5302s and eteks, I think it could be a contender
I was thinking about those things the other day when looking over some old notes. I bet the range could be double just off the weight reduction and efficancy gain.
The biggest waste of power on my friend's Citicar was starting from a standstill at trafic lights. there was no way to limit current, and he was forever blowing fuses when trying to take passangers. I think he said it cost him like 30% range and he had been working to build a current sensor but never got it working. That was the dark age of contactors, now with cheap kelly 200 amp controllers and cheap 48volt Lithium, not to mention 5302s and eteks, I think it could be a contender
TylerDurden
100 GW
Prolly gonna get headway cells and keep the original motors.Drunkskunk said:
Hubmotors (with the exception of markcycle's) have pesky issues like heat , plus they would take a real hammering inside an auto's wheel. I expect to see more EVs with dedicated motors on the inboard end of the drive-axles.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
yeah, i'm not so sure ungeared hubmotors are the way to go for anything as heavy as a car. they just aren't efficent enough from a standstill. I had been thinking of something like a 5302 on high voltage running to the rear end diffirential.
I wonder how hard it would be to get a full fiberglass VW bug body?
I wonder how hard it would be to get a full fiberglass VW bug body?
dogman dan
1 PW
Pretty easy. They still have everything for bugs. Most of the fiberglass bodies I've seen look like something else, and go on a bug pan though. The bradley GT was one popular one, and then the sand buggy. The bugs problem isn't weight so much as drag.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
morph999 said:
They did. Its called a golf cart. The problem is people don't want practical, they want land yachts.
Drunkskunk said:
Yeah that's true. People will have to go completely broke before they decide to change their ways. People can't get over this whole competition thing. They are actually prosecuting people in my state if they drive Golf carts on the roads.
Doctorbass
100 GW
I believe that with two X6 (the X602) that is double wider than the X5.. Yes that could be done on a car.. but the bearing car not probably made to handle all these lateral G force when turning.. and also the weight of the car could be hard on the bearings!
Markcycle have one X602.. ask him about it
He may make them availlable for us soon..
Doc
Markcycle have one X602.. ask him about it
He may make them availlable for us soon..
Doc
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
One of these might be a better (and more expensive) place to start than a bug:
http://www.greenthinkers.org/blog/2008/05/vw_l1.html
The advantage of Hub Motors would be that it should be possible to build a kit that would be relatively easy to retrofit to a lot of cars (same advantage as bikes).
For something as heavy as a car (even a lightweight car) I'd try to start with a Hub with higher quality bearings than the X5.
Drunkskunk said:
One of these might be a better (and more expensive) place to start than a bug:
http://www.greenthinkers.org/blog/2008/05/vw_l1.html
The advantage of Hub Motors would be that it should be possible to build a kit that would be relatively easy to retrofit to a lot of cars (same advantage as bikes).
For something as heavy as a car (even a lightweight car) I'd try to start with a Hub with higher quality bearings than the X5.
BiGH
100 kW
im just going to go with a resounding no on this one. All of the electric car conversions i have seen have used one or two fairly decent electric motors plugged into the gearbox in a manual car, to allow gearing etc to work in their favour. and after looking at some of the specs for how far and fast the cars are, they're not brilliant.
northernmike
10 kW
morph999 said:
I think they're actually quite reasonable, considering what they're offering. $100k doesn't go very far these days, and the Tesla is quite the achievement.
I don't think a car powered by cheap bicycle parts is going to compare, somehow...
IamIan
100 mW
morph999 said:
I'd love for my next car to be more Twike like ... I love the pedals ... it would be great way to get a few minutes of activity during a commute where otherwise you are sedentary... plus it is light weight , aerodynamic ... and a EV.
Practical is very vague ... depending on who you ask ... EVs have been practical for 100+ years .... or if you ask someone else EVs will never be practical.
For my personal Needs ... A 2 seating EV with a ~50 Mile range and highway speeds ~70MPH would meet ~90% of my driving needs .... and of the remaining 10% ... 90% of that could be filled with a range extending trailer for the EV .... that would leave only ~1 out of every 100 or 200 trips I take that I would need anything else ... kind of like I don't own a U-haul ... I rent one on those rare times I need such a vehicle.
SamSpeed
1 W
Gotta question. How would you balance the power between the motors? Seems that if it was not close to perfect you'd get a steering effect. I've thought about building a trike with two motors and seems it'd have the same problem.
Hybrid? What about a small coupe trike with single rear wheel designed like a large scooter (they have up to 650cc belt drive CVT drive now), with two front hub motors to assist off the line and acceleration. I owned a honda helix 235 cc and it was really dependable and hit 75 mph.
gestalt
10 kW
Yeah, had a '85 elite 250cc. That thing would do 80mph down the highway. What I would like to see is a dreverse trim with a hubless wheel on the back driven by a good 5000w-10000w brushless, yeah I'm a sucker for that FUTURE! look. I like how the T-Rex has the rear drive wheel on an arm with the car style tire, not rounded like a motorcycle. I know that company had a electric version in the works, it seems like a hub motor would be the only way to fit an EV into it's tiny frame.
monster
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2007
- Messages
- 1,411
in my opinion the only thing that differes substantially between a car and a bike is the fairing. it would be nice to see some standardized commercially availavle whole body fairings for bikes. if one was available for a trike or quad then it would be a car imo, but there is no market for trikes or quads.
AussieJester
1 TW
TylerDurden said:
Not 'just' Americans TD, most people. Until electric cars have a range of 600km PLUS at ~120km/hr
and charge as fast as it takes to fill a gas tank, nobody outside of esentric tree huggeing lentil eaters, OH haha
and the odd celebrity wanting to be seen being green are going to buy one, to the rest they will be seen as a novelty item only...
KiM
Malcolm
10 kW
I've seriously considered using a pair of Mark's hub motors to drive my classic mini (weight around 650 kg). The idea has a lot of appeal as it eliminates all the transmission weight including the differential. All I'd have to do is get a couple of custom drive shafts made up and mount the motors in the centre of the subframe. The weight saving compared to the ICE setup would be over 100 kg – not far off the weight of a 10 kWh battery pack.
I've not been able to get hold of any torque figures yet though and I doubt they would give the low-end torque I want. One of my build criteria is that the car should be able to pull away on a 1 in 3 hill. It could be done with a pair of Agni motors, but then they would have to be geared down around 5:1, which means added complexity and weight.
I've not been able to get hold of any torque figures yet though and I doubt they would give the low-end torque I want. One of my build criteria is that the car should be able to pull away on a 1 in 3 hill. It could be done with a pair of Agni motors, but then they would have to be geared down around 5:1, which means added complexity and weight.
markcycle
10 kW
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
I have been thinking about the electric car conversion. I don't think we will be seeing aftermarket hub wheels for some time.
I was thinking you could take a FWD car and retrofit a light duty 4WD rear end into it from a wrecked subaru or something. That plus a 50hp electric motor with an electric clutch should work pretty well. Add a Zilla controller and a pile of LifePo4 and away you go. The car could be electric or ICE or both.
-Warren.
I was thinking you could take a FWD car and retrofit a light duty 4WD rear end into it from a wrecked subaru or something. That plus a 50hp electric motor with an electric clutch should work pretty well. Add a Zilla controller and a pile of LifePo4 and away you go. The car could be electric or ICE or both.
-Warren.
