Cruzin Cooler

[Computer Dan]

A friend gave a an old broken Cruzin Cooler 500W 50 series. Turned out the batteries and controller and throttle were toast. I replaced the old lead with 2 36V 7.8ah lithium battery packs run in parallel. I then bought a cheap 36V 500W controller and throttle with a key. Everything appeared to be working fine, this thing really hustles getting up to 25mph rather quickly. My back drive tire is getting bald from doing donuts and hitting bumps, loosing traction and then gaining it with a little burnout. Great fun although not the safest, just the way I like it.
Here is the problem. After thrashing it around for a while it just dies. I rode it 2 miles and all was well until it wasn't. No power what so ever. I had to turn off the switch, unplug the batteries from the controller and plug everything back in and it will work again for a while but eventually die. Still plenty of juice in the batteries and while the motor and controller are hot, I don't feel it to be excessive and the cause of my issue. I also replaced the stock thin wires with much thicker wires as the old connectors and wires melted in 5 minutes. Any ideas out there? Is my controller a cheap piece of garbage? The batteries are the exact same setup as my Ezip 700 and my Mongoose FS and work just fine with those. Thanks for anyone that can help.

 

[amberwolf]

If the power actually shuts off, and you have to disconnect the battery to make it run again, the most likely problem is that the BMS in the battery is shutting down to protect the pack from either overcurrent or overdischarge. Potentially overheating if the BMS has a temperature sensor, but that shouldn't be reset by simply power cycling, it should have to cool off first.


You'd have to test your actual batteries, to see if they are balanced, to make sure a cell droping below LVC under load isnt' the problem.

If both batteries are paralleled, and neither by itself supports the load of the motor, then if one of htem cut out due to such a problem, the other could then cutout because of overcurrent or voltage sag causing LVC cutout.


If the controller has any built in protections that require power cycling, then that might be a cuase, but it wouldn't actually shut off power. It would just stop responding to throttle. If it's not overheating, then battery voltage dropping below controller LVC under load would cause that, but should recover as soon as battery voltage rebounds.

Bad capacitors in the controller (usually visible as swollen / domed tops) could cause excessive current draw and shutdown the battery BMS, cutting power, but still "work" after power cycling.


The motor itself couldnt' cause a power loss, unless it shorted out and blew the controller and triggered battery shutoff, but that wouldn't allow you to power cycle and restart.


If motor and controller are really hot, then there's a possiblity that the hall/phase combo wiring is wrong, a false positive. Or just that the system is overloaded.

 

[Computer Dan]

A lot to take in but here is my update. I don't believe the problem is the batteries but I could be wrong, happens frequently. Took them out and installed them in a ezip 750 and they seemed to be working fine. Am I mistaken to think that LVC shouldn't happen on a 24V system without destroying the batteries? Installed them fully charged 42.3V back into the cooler and couldn't even get out of the driveway without it shutting down. Jiggled some wires and saw the throttle display flicker and shut off and back on. Checked the throttle connector and found one of the wires came partially out of it. Push it back in and everything seemed good. Fixed my problem right? Nope didn't get more then 100ft when I watched the battery level drop on the throttle and everything shut off. Back to the routine of unplugging wires and flipping switches. Now I'm pissed so I just go for it. Full throttle and I keep going and going. About 2 miles and no issues. Feeling good that it is working and I pass a cute girl that is smiling and waving at me. Just at that moment it goes down again. Back on the side of the road messing with wires. Had to watch the lights on the throttle and adjust the speed accordingly in order to make it home without popping the lid in shame on the side of the road once again. When I got home out of aggravation I thrashed that thing around the yard on and off full throttle and no issues again. I'm confused, it might be cursed.

I am leaning towards the controller but by no means am I an expert and that's why I am here asking the questions, not answering them. *edit* I previously mentioned that the controller was 500W but actually it is 800W. Not sure if that changes anything, I'm guessing not. I also have the same batteries installed in a ezip 500, ezip 450, another ezip 750 and an ezip 900. No issues on any of them. Yes a bit of a scooter addiction I know. I also have a Mongoose CX450, City Coco fat tire harley, Mongoose FS, Schwinn Missle, Honda Mini Moto and a few Razor e300's.

 

[amberwolf]

Took them out and installed them in a ezip 750 and they seemed to be working fine. Am I mistaken to think that LVC shouldn't happen on a 24V system without destroying the batteries?

I don't know what hte ezip system is, but if it's 24v, then no, it wouldn't ever trigger the system's LVC. On the cooler it's a 36v system, according to your first post, so you could trigger controller LVC on votlage sag, but those usualy reset as soon as voltage rises above LVC again, which will happen as soon as the controller stops loading down the battery.

But on either the ezip or the cooler It could still trigger the *battery's* LVC, becuase that's independent, and if you pull enough current to cause enough voltage sag, or discharge it far enough, then the battery LVC can be triggered. Some reset automaticlaly, some don't until all load is removed.

But based on the below stuff you're seeing, it probably isn't teh battery. But it *could* be the connection from the battery to the system, anywhere along it's path.


I

nstalled them fully charged 42.3V back into the cooler and couldn't even get out of the driveway without it shutting down. Jiggled some wires and saw the throttle display flicker and shut off and back on. Checked the throttle connector and found one of the wires came partially out of it. Push it back in and everything seemed good. Fixed my problem right? Nope didn't get more then 100ft when I watched the battery level drop on the throttle and everything shut off. Back to the routine of unplugging wires and flipping switches. Now I'm pissed so I just go for it. Full throttle and I keep going and going. About 2 miles and no issues. Feeling good that it is working and I pass a cute girl that is smiling and waving at me. Just at that moment it goes down again. Back on the side of the road messing with wires. Had to watch the lights on the throttle and adjust the speed accordingly in order to make it home without popping the lid in shame on the side of the road once again. When I got home out of aggravation I thrashed that thing around the yard on and off full throttle and no issues again. I'm confused, it might be cursed.

Intermittent problems like you're describing are almost always connectors or wiring. You may *see* a good connection, but it may be high resistance or it may just jiggle around and fail to make contact whenever vibration allows.

I would go over every single wire from one end of the wire to the other, checking for conductors broken inside the insulation, whcih you can usually feel as it will bend differently there than everywhere else. Then check every single contact in every single connector, looking for spread pins, anything that is even *slightly* loose, anything that wiggles, etc. Fix anything that even vaguely seems amiss.

The first path to check is the power from the battery itself all the way to the controller, as intermittent complete power loss is what you are describing.

I would virtually guarantee you it is a wire or connector.

 

[Computer Dan]

I don't know what hte ezip system is, but if it's 24v, then no, it wouldn't ever trigger the system's LVC. On the cooler it's a 36v system, according to your first post, so you could trigger controller LVC on votlage sag, but those usualy reset as soon as voltage rises above LVC again, which will happen as soon as the controller stops loading down the battery.

Sorry you are definitely correct. I forgot I have a 36V controller and a 24V motor. One of the few that I have the proper voltage controller to match the batteries.

Intermittent problems like you're describing are almost always connectors or wiring. You may *see* a good connection, but it may be high resistance or it may just jiggle around and fail to make contact whenever vibration allows.

I would go over every single wire from one end of the wire to the other, checking for conductors broken inside the insulation, whcih you can usually feel as it will bend differently there than everywhere else. Then check every single contact in every single connector, looking for spread pins, anything that is even *slightly* loose, anything that wiggles, etc. Fix anything that even vaguely seems amiss.

The first path to check is the power from the battery itself all the way to the controller, as intermittent complete power loss is what you are describing.

I would virtually guarantee you it is a wire or connector.

I will certainly go through the entire wiring tonight to check. I am usually pretty careful with my wiring but mistakes can be and have been made. I zip tied all connectors together. Replaced the motor with an Anderson connector and used X60 for batteries.

Thanks for taking time to respond. I will update with what I find.

 

[Computer Dan]

Amberwolf, I agree with your assesment so I checked through all the wiring and all seems to be in order with no loose connections which I was hoping to find. I did buy a brand new 36V 16ah battery which should be arriving in the next couple days. That hopefully will rule that out. If I have the same issue then I will replace the controller. Unfortunately at the moment I only have a 36V 500W spare kicking around that will work. I have a bunch of ezip controllers but they are 5 pin throttles that don't match up with my current setup. If I still have the issue then out goes the throttle. I don't have a spare but I have a broken test throttle that I can rig for testing (set screw hole is blown out). If after all that and it still has a problem then there is a higher power telling me to get rid of it before I kill myself on it.

 

[Computer Dan]

So it took me a while to test this as the problem seemed intermittent and I haven't had time to take it on long rides this is what I discovered. New battery did not solve the issue even though I initially though it did. Instead it wound up going in my son's CX450 which fit perfectly after some modifications and now looks stock again. I did not have a matching throttle and controller so I bought a new one. So far I believe that solved the problem. No issues since but I am not sure which is to blame. For how cheap they were I am going to pitch them and chalk it up as a loss and save the hassle.

 

[Gplracer]

Did you ever figure this out?