Crystalyte Controller / Does it Rain in China?

[marty]

Received 406 Motor, 36V 35A Controller, Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst and Half Twist Throttle from Ebike.ca No instructions Justin do you need paper? Not a problem, will print my own.

First impressions are - The controller is not water proof. Kenny does it rain in China? I need to modify. Unless someone has a better suggestion will just wrap it in electrical tape.

Got some questions?
Is there any need for the red push button switch? I will have switch on battery.
Will also eliminate little pilot light. Will have light on battery.
Does controller get hot? Warm or hot? Will a good wrapping of electrical tape hurt anything?

 

[oatnet]

It is time to leave your preconceptions of Western-Nanny-State style of documentation and support behind. I think you will find that few, if any, components in the 'e' side of ebikes comes with instructions, and when they do you are less confused without them. If you have to ask, you need to be willing to research and learn or this is not the hobby for you. If you find info, thank the enthusiast that generated for you since it isn't coming from the manufacturers.

I don't ride electric bikes in the rain or heavy fog, had bad luck in both. Even if you make your controller weathertight, worry about the throttle getting wet and transmitting WOT when dialed to off.

Yes, the controller gets warm, and depending on wattage its ability to shed heat may be essential - wrapping in electrical tape may interfere with cooling. Mount the controller where it can get airflow; I try to mount controllers such that the internal heat sink is UP (heat rises) but that is probably more obsessive-compulsive than functional.

The switch and light are redundant in your setup, but their overhead is imperceptable, why void your warrantee by removing them?

 

[calinb]

Marty, I just put my C-lyte controller in my front Ortlieb panier and I don't pack anything around its cooling fins. I have a 53V Yesa LiFePO4 pack. If it's raining, I close the pannier. If it's not raining, i leave the top of the pannier bag open for air circulation. I've never had an overtemp. If I ever mod the cotroller for 100V / 60A, I'll probably install a cooling duct.

I also have never had a failure of anything while riding in the rain (except maybe my own judgment of the severity of weather conditions) and it's been a wet one here in NW Oregon this year! (I did crash into a commercial van on the ice last week, however. ) I know some people have reported failures of the throttle or other components but I've not had any trouble and I've ridden nearly 1000 miles over the last 2 1/2 months on the rainy side of Oregon--most of it wet, wet, wet! I have the 1/4 twist throttle with LEDs. I've done nothing to waterproof it either. I'm trying to figure out which throttles are causing problems. (Thumb lever throttles, perhaps?)

I did corrosion proof my X5 motor internals, however.

Regards,

-Cal

 

[calinb]

Marty, Almost forgot your Qs:

>Is there any need for the red push button switch? I will have switch on battery.

Not really but it's useful if you ever need to plug your battery directly into the controller, bypassing your "master" switch, (bypassing a failed master switch, debugging, etc.) then the controller switch becomes useful. My connectors permit a direct connection to my battery pack. I also have an "auxiliary" power jack. Sometimes I wish to run my auxiliary power jack for my headlamp or other device (requires that the master switch be "on") but I don't want to power the controller. The controller switch is useful in this situation too. I suggest retaining it.

> Will also eliminate little pilot light. Will have light on battery.

Yeah--I agree w/ oatnet. Why bother?

> Does controller get hot? Warm or hot? Will a good wrapping of electrical tape hurt anything?

I agree with oatnet, again. I wrapped an edge protector around the sharp edges and corners of my controller case end mounting tabs to keep it from poking holes in my Ortlieb bags--that's all I've done. Some day, I'll take pics of all the details of my E-bike project and post!

-Cal

 

[Eric G]

Hmmmmm...I've heard the throttles with the LED's are the ones that have shorted in the rain and that is why I've stayed away from them but Cal hasn't had a problem.I've used a thumb throttle and a full twist throttle and have been caught in the rain plenty of times and the odd thunderstorm too with both of these throttles with no problem whatsoever.I'm starting to think maybe it's just the luck of the draw now

The controllers are definately not waterproofed.I have mine completely enclosed in a metal container with a hole in the side for air ventilation and when it's raining I seal up the hole with a plug.Heat isn't an issue for me as I'm only running 36volts/25amps it does get warm in there but not overly hot.I've read that some people put a bead of silicone around the controller and some where the wires exit.If the controller is going to be exposed to the elements,at least position it so the wires exiting are facing downward so if water tracks the wires it stays away from the controllers innards.

Eric

 

[Drunkskunk]

I have to agree as well, why bother to remove the switch and light?
The switch is a safety feature. it turns on the controll side of the circuit, not the power side, though. Idealy, you would use it after attaching a battery, instead of a main switch to eliminate the power spike. Plugging "on" circuitry into a battery that doesn't already have a load on it can cause a surge and fry the componants. not realy a risk on a C-lyte controller, but a good practice to be in.


As for water proofing, Electrical tape adhesive isn't rated for water blockage. It actualy can pull water in by capulary action. Plyss the back side of the controller gets hot, warm enough to make a mess of the adhesive, especialy if you run near max amps. The thing to do is to seal it with silicone, butit was never designed to be water proof, or even water resistant, so stuff it in a bag someplace out of the rain.

As for Justin's lack of instructions, there are none provided by Crystalyte to anyone for the controllers, but if you need them, you're in the wrong hobby. As for the Cycle Analyst, Justin has them on line, with a note that they are a work in progress. since the CA is literately hand built by him, thats not surprising. But its one of the best meters on the market for Ebikes, So I can forgive having to go online for the instruction manual. Hey! Its greener anyway, fewer dead trees that way!

 

[monster]

i too have had lots of experience in the wet. i put my controller in a pannier bag behind me, this way the cyclist acts as a rain catcher preventing the thing getting wet. i have not glue sealed my controller but it's probably a good idea. never had any problems but one time in hight of summer it did over temp and shut down briefly.

 

[fechter]

If the controller is inside a box or bag with no air flow, it can get very hot. Air flow is good.

I've found that completely sealing any electronic device is very difficult and usually results in moisture getting trapped inside, causing condensation, corrosion, and eventual shorts. What seems to work better is to completely seal the top side to act like an umbrealla, but have a vent at the bottom. This way, moisture can escape. Where the wires enter the box also needs to be on the bottom, as water tends to follow the wires into the box.

On mine, I ditched the switch and the reverse key thing. I plugged the holes with a penny glued in with silicone on the inside. Any flat piece of plastic would work too. I took the wire that used to go to the switch and extended it out of the case where it ties into a handlebar mounted switch.

 

[rkosiorek]

having a delta trike Reverse is usefull. i extended the wires for it and mounted a forward/reverse on the handlebars as well. on most of my controllers i switch the wires internally (they just plug into the board) so that the keyswitch becomes the Power switch and the push switch becomes the forward/reverse. it always seemed to make more sense that way for me.

i have also had trouble on one or two occasions with moisture in the throttle. my solution was to take it apart and coat the innards with dielectric grease. just use a brush and smear a layer of it over the internal board and hall sensor wires. no trouble since then. i also use the dielectric grease to seal the various connectors (hall, throttle, brake inhibit etc) this prevents corrosion on the contacts as well as water getting in there.

rick

 

[calinb]

If the controller is inside a box or bag with no air flow, it can get very hot. Air flow is good.

Yeah--the weather around here tends to be cool when it's raining so my controller stays cool with the bag closed in the rain. There's plenty of airflow in the bag when the weather's dry and warm with the bag open--though I've yet to go through a summer with it. If I ever significantly increase power, I'll probably install a "snorkel" with a fan in it and do forced air cooling--similar to the setups used in aircraft avionics.

 

[marty]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Went shopping for waterproof controller protector. Came back with 2 bottles of mouthwash. The wife and I are not mouthwash users. We have bad breath :| Poured mouthwash down sink. Then I read ingredients, 21.6% alcohol. This stuff can get you drunk

Now that we've defined our objectives, it's Mouth Wash Time! - GDude

Mouth wash bottles were a bit too small. Back to the store. Bought Cleaning Stuff. Poured Cleaning Stuff in a milk jug. DO NOT drink the yellow liquid under the sink.

Will mount controller to water bottle bolts. Not exactly sure how? Is there a easy way to install new water bottle mounting bolts in a aluminum bicycle frame?

 

[ngocthach1130]

You might be able to get by with zip ties. I used zip ties all over my bike. Even to secure the controller. Used like 8 of them.

 

[rkosiorek]

they are called RIVNUTS or NUTSERTS. depends on the brand that you buy. this is a rivet that is threaded on the inside. you will need the M5 kind if you want to stay with the ususal size used on bikes. pro's use special tools to inset them but you can do a couple by using a long M5 screw, a M5 washer and a larger nut that the M5 screw will slide through.

slide the screw through the washer and the nut. since the nut is oversize the screw should turn freely inside the nut. screw the rivnut onto the screw. drill the right size hole that the rivnut manufacturer recommends for that size into the bike frame. push the rivnut into the hole. hold the nut with a wrench. turn the M5 screw until the rivnut collapses like a pop rivet and locks itself into the opening. viola a no welding or brazing mount.

these are available from biketoolsetc.com

 

[Volt]

controller in a bottle looks better online then it would on your bike . Why not just carry a few plastic bags , should it rain your covered ...

 

[marty]

controller in a bottle looks better online then it would on your bike . Why not just carry a few plastic bags , should it rain your covered ...

Volt,
Will use plastic bag to cover Cycle Analyst. I agree that my bottle idea is kind of hooky. I challenge you all to come up with a better water proof enclosure for Crystalyte Controller idea. To get you started will give you some pictures to look at.
1 picture is worth 1000 words.

Watertight Extruded Aluminum w/ Diecast Aluminum Panels
http://www.hammondmfg.com

Liquid Tight Cordgrips
http://www.heyco.com

 

[marty]

Look at this!
Was Kenny reading my mind?

http://www.crystalyte.com

 

[Volt]

I thought the CA was waterproof ? I also noticed that a ipod shuffle case fits perfectly over the db http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/. Im sticking with my mini plastic bags that are stuffed under my seat , served me well for many years. If you really want more try this product out http://www.humiseal.com/.

 

[Dee Jay]

Whoa! You can use a pen to control Cyrstalyte motors now?? That's just insane! It must be one of them-there nanu-nanu technology used by Tah-yo-tahs. :wink:

First time I've heard of Humiseal. Very cool. Remember when R2D2 fell into the Degoba swamp? R2 was water proof! Coolest scene in the Star Wars series, I thought. 8)

Iove that slim controller BTW, fits nicely under my frame.

J

 

[marty]

Going to put controller in water proof enclosure.
Best SWITCH web site I have seen http://www.e-switch.com Don't know if the switches are any good?

Love the Build-A-Part-Number feature. Click on [Check Distributor Stock] shows who has switch that I dream of.

 

[SniperGaulois]

the controller should remain pretty cool if mounted externally, it's a good idea to have a little bit of airflow especially at higher voltages, better waterproof directly by lining all the joints with silicone sealant, especially the wire duct with an ample amount, like two or three layers on top of each other to make about 1cm of silicone that melds all the wires into one piece...it's exactly the same stuff they use for diving masks so it's very flexible. you can actually unscrew the end plates so there is little gap, apply an even line paste into all the cracks, and then tighten it up again before it is dry and then it should be totally waterproof. if you even off the silicone and cover it also in tape it it should be even better same goes for the bolts underneath.

to apply silicone just basically have some latex gloves and seal the tube with candle wax after.

maybe tape a bag of hydroxide like what comes in packs of shoes to absorb any moisture, although it would have to be well fastened.

 

[marty]

zzoing,
No offence but I don't like your silicone idea. Seems like a gooey mess. If controller ever needed to be taken apart for repair? Silicone would make things difficult.

 

[iberkt]

Going to put controller in water proof enclosure.

If you are still looking for a water proof enclosure for the controller I found these.

http://www.all-pelican-cases-4-less.com/list_case_pelican.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=brand&utm_campaign=pelican&gclid=COS7-N7a4pECFT6NOAodankMfw

These cases are cases are Airtight, Watertight and come with a Lifetime guarantee, all that for a real low price I believe the 1060 Microâ„¢ Case would be the right size (Inside Dimensions 8 7/16 x 4 7/16 x 2 1/4) for $16.25.

You'd have to cut holes for the wires but you can always seal them back up with an Epoxy of some kind.

 

[marty]

iberkt,
all-pelican-cases-4-less, 1060 Microâ„¢ Case is plastic. Think controller case should be aluminum so it acts as a heat sink. Need to mount controller heat sink to aluminum case. Got this all figured out in my mind. Stay tuned for details.

 

[marty]

At topic:
Crystalyte Controllers - Repair and Modification information
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=764

The fat black and red wires go to the battery. The fat yellow, green, and blue wires are the motor phase wires.

With my controller case modification, will be replacing these Fat Wires. What gauge should I use? 10G or 12G ? Battery is 48V 20Ah Li-ion. Fuse will be 100A circuit breaker.

 

[fechter]

I'd go for the fattest ones you can fit in there. Even 8ga. if you can fit it.