Current tecnology in october 2012

[donaldallen3797]

Hello All
I have searched some here for the answer to this but have had no luck so if it's in here and I just didn't look in the right place then I am rally sorry to be a pain for you all ...

My bike has the original Magic Pie motor not the # 2 or #3 but the original magic pie motor and all the rest of the parts that went with the original magic pie .. The batterys people were using back thenwere either real expensive Lipos<sp or the newest thing that was the "LiPoFe?" And these were real new and rather expensive.

I went with 4 of the "SLA" Sealed Lead Acid ?? I think they are 12 ah "amp hour" size and I have them wired so as to put out 48 volts .. It works really well ....But... I allways have to tinker and would like to somehow get the weight of this bike down also I have a Trek bike that has a suspension and I'm thinking would ride nicer than the one without any suspension and the added weight of these 4 batterys..

Whew! ..sorry this is so long Beleive me I don't enjoy all of this 2 finger typing or "Pecking" in my case .. Question is what is out there now ?? Anything I can use for this that isn't still way expensive or unbeleiveabaly hard to use/install?? I remember the "Ping" brand of battery were all over the internet but it seems like they were expensive for what they were..

I am just thinking it has been a few years now and the technology surely has improved? ?
What I'd like to find would be a 48 volt or something like that .. Then around a 10 AH sizeand lastly I guess it needs to be able to put out around 20 amps "Right??" for the Magic pie motor to run on .... Right???

OK that's it I'm so sorry again about the long post here ... If anyone knows about this stuff the people of endless sphere will know about this. I have a picture of the bike . So maybe you can see how the 4 batterys are laid out. Just hope I can get it to post in this page/book I have written .. Thanks sooo much for your time even if you cannot help except to read this .. Perhaps someday I will know enough to be able to help someone on this forum
Thanks Again Don J.

 

[Jason27]

Batteries have gotten much lighter. I first tried using a 48v 12 ah Sla battery that weighed 36 lbs, but now I use a 48v 12 ah lithium manganese pack from allcell that weighs about 8 lbs. Huge upgrade.

Cool bike by they way..

 

[vodk1c3]

Personally I would suggest LiFePo4 because of the very high cycle you can get from them.

48V 10A LiFePo4 16x38120 cells - BMSBATTERY (278$+shipping+charger)
or
48V 10A LiFePo4 (18650 cells?) - VPOWER (254$ /w charger +shipping)

BMSBATTERY is really high quality cells and easier to repair, would be better I think.
Keep in mind that china battery are cheap but if something goes wrong, you are on your own.
LiPo setup would be a bit cheaper, but will not last as long.
You will see a very big upgrade from SLA weight and almost no voltage sag at the end of the ride.
Its a really good investment money/cycle to go LiFePo4.

Hope it helps!

 

[donaldallen3797]

Dear Vodk1c3
Thank you for your reply it is just the type of information I am looking for . And the suggestion of the BMS over the Vpower is a great tip . I am wondering what kind of amps/watts thls setup I have actually draws under my conditions . It has to drag my 250 lbs around plus whatever I can load in the basket in front of the handlebars...
Thanks again for this very useful info . Don J.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Even if you don't need the extra miles, I recommend the 15-Ah size as a minimum, because of the low C-rate of the LiFePO4 chemistry. If you are drawing 20A from a 10-Ah battery size, the battery will struggle, and it will cause a variety of problems over time.

 

[vodk1c3]

@spinningmagnets : 38120 lifepo4 cells like the BMS ones have discharge rate of 5c continuous and 10c max. A 10ah pack will have no trouble sustaining 20A to 50A and can even burst a 100A discharge...!!! Going 15ah would cost more and be heavier, but would probably last some more cycle...

 

[vodk1c3]

You can use this to approximate your battery usage/range : http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/
The amperage will be limited by the battery management system first (bms), the controller second and then the actual power usage of the motor.

 

[donaldallen3797]

Hello, and THANKS for all of the replies

I have looked up some of the batteries listed here and am suprised at what you can get now for the money . Not as bad as it used to be .. The furthiest (<is that even a word) I can see myself ever going is about 20 miles at one time if that helps in picking the amp hour size of the battery . Also not sure how much amprege/watts this motor draws . I should look into that also . It needs to carry 250 lbs around so that will add to the amp/watts drawn ...

Have only just begun to look at this . Still in thhe dreaming of what I would want overall in the end . There are so may cool ideas out there it will really confuse you .

I had the electric R/C airplane bug for a while so I sorta understand what the "C" rating on Lipos means .. I haven't heard much.... or any suggestions for lipo useage.. Can anyone shed some light on why no one seems interested in these for for some reason ... Thanks so much for all of this great help ... Don J.

 

[vodk1c3]

For 20 miles I would suggest upgrading to 15AH battery. The 20AH one seem also reasonably priced for the quality of the cells.
If you decide to go for 20AH, also investigate Victpower Prismatic pouch cells. 15.75$ a piece +shipping.

Many people here and my next bike will use LiPo and they are very interesting also.
http://www.hobbyking.com seem to be a popular supplier with good choice/prices.
The main reason for me going LiPo is because I want 60+km/h for less than 200$ with upgrade possibility.
Charging/Discharging is much less plug and play than the battery I suggested. LiPo average lifespan is +-300 cycle (maybe 500 if you're lucky).

Read as much information as you can it will help you, but i've done my homework so I'm pretty sure of my suggestions
I think that for a bang for buck/cycle. LiFePo4 is they way to go!

 

[wesnewell]

I had the electric R/C airplane bug for a while so I sorta understand what the "C" rating on Lipos means .. I haven't heard much.... or any suggestions for lipo useage.. Can anyone shed some light on why no one seems interested in these for for some reason ... Thanks so much for all of this great help ... Don J.

Rc lipo is all I've ever used after a week or two with lead. I've never liked lifepo4. Many here use rc lipo. I'd probably run 20ah Turnigy 20C 12s with your motor kit (8 6s 5ah packs).

 

[dogman dan]

At full speed, 15 ah of 48v will get you about 20 miles more or less. The ping, or other brand lifepo4 in 15 ah size is still sort of the standard recomendation for 20-25 amp controllers. 10 ah in 2c lifepo4 is too close to the maximum. It's fine when the battery is new, but as the battery ages, it becomes too small too soon.

Many are using lipo, and a 12s 10 ah pack from 4 6s packs is very popular. 44v. It's very light, but you get a shorter cycle life expectancy than with lifepo4. If you must recharge to get home, then carrying more than 10 ah or using less risky to charge lifepo4 can be done.

Unfortunately, good batteries cost $$, but one thing hasn't changed. Trying to save too much money on the battery tends to end up costing more, since the thing doesn't last. Buying a battery too small for your intended use is very stupid. At one point, I was told I needed 16 ah of Ebikes ca nicad to run a big 5304 motor. Being cheap, I bought just 8 ah, and killed em in a very few cycles. That battery died about 5 years early!!!

 

[Jason27]

My allcell pack never fails. Im pulling 20amps..Hobby king lipo is an excellent choice for a backup battery. Reason I say backup is because its inexpensive, light, and mine does not have a bms. I have to be very careful charging it so I only use it for rides under 5 miles.

 

[vodk1c3]

Nice advice from the above!

Now CHOOSE and read ^^

 

[999zip999]

You still have your RC charger ?

 

[donaldallen3797]

You still have your RC charger ?

Hello 999zip... Yes I do still have my R/C charger it was one of the better ones at the time I bought it "DN Power" A Balancer / charger I will Take a pic of it here soon and post it . Never thought much about it but then maybe it would work fo a big Li-po ..

I am still confused about what it would take to power this bike . I used to know when I was into the whole r/c plane thing more .. Seems like it was a few 5000 Watt? 6 cell ...uh... 30C ? batterys .. If someone could enlighten me so I could look into prices ..

As I said earlier I now have 4- -12 volt 12 AH Batterys hooked up for 48 volts and they never seem to go dead > ride the 45-50 minnute loop from my apt. and when I get back they still seem very charged .. I don't ride at high speed very much mostly about 12-15 MPH tops every now and then I will "Open her up" ..I was gonna try to ride the same route 2 times on 1 charge then it turned out I had to ride the bike to so I topped off the charge...

Maybe that info will help someone determine what size battery (Li Po) I could use on this bike .. It's a Magic pie First model M Pie If anyone has any Ideas about what size I might need . My end goal is to put the whole setup on the GT Timberline Bike I have.

Well thats more than enough typing. Please if someone can give me an idea of what I need in a LiPo to power this up... Thanks agaio for all of the help you've been , Don J,

 

[vodk1c3]

These are good deal:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15521

Check for bulk charging, LVC, HVC and harness.
You can refer to this guide by Ypedal for some informations.
http://www.ypedal.com/Lipo/Lipo.htm

 

[iperov]

These are good deal:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15521

why these are so cheap ???

 

[vodk1c3]

If you seek 20ah size for a battery, pouch is nice I think. 8kg for pouch vs 6kg for those hardcase LiPo (@3s4p).

The fact is that most high power bike (not motorcycle) only need 10ah/15ah and those LiPo seem an awesome deal.

Brand new 100v+@10AH for 320$ !

Lifecycle will be less than LiFePo, but +-400 cycles like the other LiPo I guess.

If you use your bike 2-3 times a week, this should last 3 years. This is okay I think since battery is an evolving technology.

Edit : Order 2-3 packs extra and you should be bullet proof from DOA cells
Edit #2 : Since the only advertised chemistry of this HK battery is LiPoly; its indeed hard to estimate lifecycle !

 

[cwah]

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15521

Turnigy Hard Case Lipoly
Price: $22.59 per
Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
Configuration: 4S1P / 14.8v / 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 20C
Peak Discharge (20sec): 30C
Max Charge Rate: 5c
Pack Weight: 528g
Pack Size: 139 x 45 x 44mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector

$271,00 for a 3S4P configuration of these to yield 43 volts and 20ah, same as the AMP20 pack I built. Yea, seems like a bargain. Thanks. But, what is the charge/discharge cycle life of these??

your amp20 is horribly heavy weight,
light lipos FTW. Cycles enough to 2-3 years. After I will buy new lipos anyway. No lifepo4 more!

If I get A123 20ah, I will do this:

Iperov, these lipo are at 140wh/kg. That's not what I would call lightweight. A bare A123 20AH cell is at 132wh/kg. So the 4S turnigy is only 6% lighter.....

Even the zippy compact at 160-168wh/kg is only around 25-30% lighter. Better of course, but not that much.


A123 20AH cells appear heavier because the cells have higher capacity and usually have a BMS. For equivalent capacity (so 20AH), I wouldn't swap A123 to lipo

 

[Jason27]

Cwah that video is really annoying dude.

 

[agniusm]

He cut that from my video testing these cells for fire risk on physical damage. i don't like it ether when it's done that way. I think these are great cells. Even if they are heavier by 20%, they are twice as long life as lipo packs. You have to make sacrifice somewhere along the line.

 

[999zip999]

Life can not be found in a day. Good luck.

 

[dnmun]

DO NOT buy the Vpower pack, do not buy the Vpower pack. just go read all the threads where we had to help people who bot them because they are so cheap. they are junk and dangerous. do not buy the Vpower packs. period.

 

[vodk1c3]

@dnmun : Well, I tend to agree with you that's why I said the bmsbattery one. It's normal to have alot of post about dead battery in here (even PING). Most people will not start a new thread with ; I have a battery since 1 year and everything is fine bye!

 

[sirlenka]

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