Custom rear hub

[liveforphysics]

I think the rotors are 2mm thick, or maybe 1.5mm thick.

However! For an ebike, this is way too little rotor, going to something thicker (assuming a caliper can be found that clear it) would be much nicer.

 

[flyinmonkie]

I'm loving this idea as well. It is just so simple. I can't think of anything that would be a show stopper. I guess holding it all together when you take your wheel off to change a flat could be interesting, but you could use the same lock ring a cassette hub uses.

Miles, are you thinking the spline would be the same as a current cassette hub? I would think it would need to be a smaller diameter to get a threaded freewheel adapter to work. Also, you could go with any sort of spline for the shaft if it is smaller and then use adapters to fit bike sprockets, kart sprockets, freewheels, brake rotors, etc.

To split the drive at the rear hub, all the adapters (except the brake rotor and a freewheel adapter) will have to freewheel. That may be the hardest part.

Clay

 

[amberwolf]

Maybe I missed it, but what about axle diameter? I'd go for 20mm at least (cuz either high torque or heavy loads on bad roads (or both) will quickly destroy the smaller axles on regular hubs...I've done it both ways, several times).

Otherwise, I like it so far.


I know a larger diameter axle won't fit in regular dropouts on most bikes, but since we're all making clamping dropouts and torque plates for our bikes anyway it's easy enough to fix, right?

 

[AussieJester]

I know a larger diameter axle won't fit in regular dropouts on most bikes, but since we're all making clamping dropouts and torque plates for our bikes anyway it's easy enough to fix, right?

What do 'clamping dropouts' and 'torque plates' have to do with a non frock motor setup AW?

One of the biggest advantages of a non frock setup is the lightness of it, seems very counter productiv whacking big heavy clamping dropouts and torque plates on a non frock setup AW...

Nice work Miles :wink: Is this though, another thread full of bright ideas and lovely CAD
drawings or do you seriously plan on getting them manufactured?

KiM

 

[Miles]

Maybe I missed it, but what about axle diameter? I'd go for 20mm at least (cuz either high torque or heavy loads on bad roads (or both) will quickly destroy the smaller axles on regular hubs...I've done it both ways, several times).

Bearings are 28mm OD. So, axles could be 10mm, 12mm, 12.7mm, 13mm or possibly 15mm. The bearings can go right to the end so, I'm not too worried. No torque on the axles....

 

[Miles]

Is this though, another thread full of bright ideas and lovely CAD
drawings or do you seriously plan on getting them manufactured?

I think these will probably become "hard copy" but, it's still possible that we could abandon the idea and take a different tack altogether - early days...

I did see this: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=442476#p442476 Guilty as charged...

 

[TylerDurden]

I did see this: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=442476#p442476 Guilty as charged...

"You are not authorised to read this forum."

 

[Miles]

Sorry! I didn't notice that it was one of the threads that was moved to the Mods' forum.

There are all to many threads on ES that are page after page of CAD drawings, posts planning and discussing the idea/design at length with nothing actually ever produced, just a whole lot of talk about how to do it , this thread reminds me of such threads, ES has gone as we new it, time to move to new home and start compiling a new data base to continue the e-revolution.

 

[TylerDurden]

How about a coupler to join two freehub bodies back to back?


Enough room for the bits on each side?

NuVinci freehub profiles allow threaded FW adapters (Stanton), right?

 

[dontsendbubbamail]

How about a coupler to join two freehub bodies back to back?


Enough room for the bits on each side?

NuVinci freehub profiles allow threaded FW adapters (Stanton), right?

I think your flange spacing would be very narrow and make for a weak wheel.

Bubba

 

[TylerDurden]

I think your flange spacing would be very narrow and make for a weak wheel.

Spoke flanges would slide on the splines as in earlier examples...

Just looking for a fast/dirty way to reduce fancy fabbing.

 

[panurge]

Oh Miles

Let me say...............
..............Amazing!!!!!!!!!

I'm surprised by an hub revolution like this, but if things are so forwarded....
why not play the game?

Some time ago when I was considering to make hubs, I had imagined a modular hub like in your idea, but without the splined body, in place of wich, an advantageous number of circularly positioned Ti or Steel spacers/axles that reatain some plates, where the plates are the same flanges, machined with bores that fit the number of spacers/axles around of a central bore, with a sealed bearing for each, where the DropO. axle go thru.(hope you can Understand.... )

Anyway this was catalogued as an insane reiteration of my frame style by myself and my partners and trashed...

I have some ideas that would be better to draw.... :lol:

Your way, well figured by LFP and your CAD's is more realistic..... and amazing

...sort of re-inventing the wheel though.

This is the best part of this idea......

I think the Freewheel module would be the harder and expensive part....

The double side splined hub could be made faster/cheaper, I concur, less clean though....

I stay tuned 8)

Jules

PS: Quote for Ti!!!!!

 

[Miles]

Hi Jules,

Please join in the game!

You have real experience. I'm just doodling

 

[Miles]

Still pondering the brake rotor mount.......

 

[Miles]

There seems to be plenty of room for everything. Here, the flange to flange spacing is 58mm (29mm < l > 29mm).

 

[panurge]

Ok....

Some "real" Ti stuff...
Look at the big cilinder...



Splined body, axle and spoke flanges, are well doable...but freewheel?
I have broach for the frewheel cassette....Creating a freewheel like an Eno should be really expensive.
Or you have already an Idea, Miles?

How about a coupler to join two freehub bodies back to back?

This is good For save money and Ti hgrams, welded or bolted or attached in any other way..

Jules

 

[Miles]

Look at the big cilinder...

Splined body, axle and spoke flanges, are well doable...but freewheel?
I have broach for the frewheel cassette....Creating a freewheel like an Eno should be really expensive.
Or you have already an Idea, Miles?

Yes, the way you constructed your hubs started me thinking in this direction...

Re. the freewheel units, one possibility is to get WI to make up a batch. The cost shouldn't be much more than the wholesale cost of their standard products. When we inquired before, tooling cost for the broach etc, was significant. I have thought of an alternative method, to avoid this. The only hurdle is the minimum order quantity of, I think, 175 units.

Meanwhile, Luke (or his father) have been offering a service, broaching the stock ENO freewheels..... I have one, plus the one I did by hand....

Shall we make a twin rotor front hub to match?

 

[Miles]

Cap. 5

 

[liveforphysics]

Is there adquate space for the heads of a fastener and the spokes between the sprocket flange and the spoke flange? Or are the holes for screws?

 

[Miles]

The motor freewheel isn't even the right way around

I want to work out a design for it that can be used on the RH side or the LH side.

A central flange would be the easiest solution, I guess...

 

[Miles]

Supposing we had the motor freewheel as the basic unit and a 4-speed cassette fixed onto the flange of that?

 

[flyinmonkie]

If the splined central cylinder were smaller than a standard hub driver, then you could make an adapter that slides on and has threads for a freewheel on it. Then you can use a flanged freewheel, a single speed freewheel, or a 3 or 6 speed freewheel and just thread it on the adapter. That way standard freewheels could be used. A bolt on or quick release axle could be used inside the splined cylinder and the bearings for the axle at the outermost ends. You could also make an adapter with cassette splines so standard bike sprockets from a cassette or single speed sprockets could be used. Of course these would not have a freewheel component to them.

Clay

 

[Miles]

Clay,

I did consider this before but decided against, at the time.

Let's review:

It would certainly have the advantages that you point to, but:

-The freewheels would need to be bonded or locked onto the adaptor for LH use.

-The smaller diameter splined unit would mean smaller diameter bearings, probably necessitating the use of needle bearings running on a hardened axle.

-The smaller diameter splined unit would be less stiff.

-All standard parts used on it would need an adaptor (stock cost + adaptor cost).

What do others think?

 

[liveforphysics]

I think as sketched is virtually perfect.

I tore a lot of spokes out of wheels with the Agni bike, I personally would want as large of a spoke flange as possible. Folks not putting 440ft-lbs of torque to the rear wheel might not need the extra mass, but I think it would be good just for wheel strength for the higher speeds etc that motorized bikes endure.

I also think some decent cro-mo would keep the costs in the ball-park, unless we tool'd up for a Ti extrusion die.(can you even extrude Ti?)

We tool up for extrusions at work all the time (always just aluminum though), it's not as bad as you might think, a couple grand will get you most any small intricate extrusion, making and end product like the splined axle just cost a few bucks a foot rather than hundreds of dollars in machining per splined axle.

 

[Miles]

An extrusion would certainly be the way to get my weight saving section

I should imagine hollow sections are much more expensive?

You'd need to machine the inside for bearing fit, of course.

Perhaps we could get away with semi hard-anodised Alu. ?