• Howdy! we're looking for donations to finish custom knowledgebase software for this forum. Please see our Funding drive thread

cute q100, 24v versus 36v and hall sensors support?

d8veh said:
The 36v 201 rpm Q100 at 48v will only do about 28kph in 20" wheels. You need the 24v 201rpm one with 12S. I think you'll find that 48v battery too big for a folding bike. Where do you plan to fit it. Two Zippy 8aH 6S packs just fit in one of those frog cases, which gives a light, neat and convenient installation. Use the KU63 controller with one leg of the shunt soldered, which works OK at 44v (12S).

You might have to use a rear motor because the forks are too narrow for a motor on decent folding bikes. Which folding bikes are you thinking of.

http://aleoca.com/products/foldable_bike/AB2006-EC11.htm The bike is a generic local produced China foldable 20". It only costs about US$110 here. Comes with 6 speed Shimano gears which uses the right half handlebar to adjust (I may have a problem with twist grip). I have yet to measure the front dropouts which i'll do so today.

I would prefer to use the 48V15AH that I already have so i don't have to buy another battery or go into LiPo (I'm not ready yet). I also think 8ah is not enough for my needs, ideally i want to travel about 50km. I plan to mount it on the front stand which i bought from ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Mini-Pannier-Rack-Front-rear-pannier-rack-carrier-24-28-bike-luggage-/140748160201?pt=UK_Sports_Leisure_Cycling_Bags_Panniers_SR&hash=item20c53e7cc9 or i could just put it at the back rack.

The battery weights 4.6kg/ 10lbs.

Is it ok not to mod the KU63? 13S x 15.5A would give me about 850W is that correct?
 
That bike has a steel frame, so you should be able to stretch the forks. I've see a Brompton stretched from 70mm to 100mm to accommodate a motor. I'm not sure about the KU63 at 48v. IIRC it has 63v capacitors so might be OK, but I've never gone higher than 44.4v (50v off the charger). They're not very expensive, so you could get two of each 36v KU63 and 48v KU93.
 
I think the q100 may not be able to handle the KU93 at 22A which would make it 1200W peak.

Will I be able to replace the 6speed gears with a 7speed? The gear shifter is
SLRS43R6;Warehouse;Warehouse.jpg
which only has 6 speed.

Also do the Q100 front motors have spacers which i can remove incase its not 100mm?
 
You should be able to use a thumb throttle with above wrist gear shifter.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/accessory/231-thumb-level-throttle.html

They also have one with battery indicator. Are you sure the front stand will fit the folding bike?
 
aaronlim said:
I think the q100 may not be able to handle the KU93 at 22A which would make it 1200W peak.

Also do the Q100 front motors have spacers which i can remove incase its not 100mm?
If you're going to try that much current, you should buy the kit and a spare motor. The motors are relatively cheap ($79) and it's only a 10 minute job to remove the core and the gears and replace from a spare motor, so, if you burn it, you'll be soon running again. Then you can file the shunt in the KU93 to reduce the current, or replace it with a KU63. I've got a feeling that 22 amps is pushing the limits. Also, my latest KU 93 does 25 amps out of the box, so make sure you check the current. I know someone who stripped the gears on a Bafang SWX at 20 amps when he hit a bump, and the Q100 gears are not as big.

I don't think it's feasible to reduce the width of the Q100 by any significant amount, but they also sell the Q85 (85mm wide), which is smaller and lighter and sure to smoke at 22 amps
Here's a picture of the internals where you can see how the core comes out leaving the spoked hub:
SANY0142.jpg
 
d8veh, i'm just about to place the order then i realise should i get the q100 24v 201 rpm or 36v 328rpm?

My battery is 13s 54V.

I will also buy a spare motor and extra KU93. Is it easy to file the shunt? Or is it easier to solder a KU63?
 
The 24v would have a no load speed of 25mph and the 36v 393 rpm one would be 32mph. Therefore the best would be the 24v one. Regarding the shunt, both are quite easy. Soldering is quicker.
 
This is where D8veh and I disagree. He promotes the 24V version and I think "why bother". One ends up tossing the controller to run it on higher voltage and in my opinion, the 36V, with it's compound gears, is a better design
I also disagree about the 328 "fast wind's no-load speed as he stated.
Hang on a minute and I'll run both winds though the Ebike Sim.
 
Punching in the relavant data(20" wheel, less than 220 lb. gross and 54V batt.) , I get a top speed of around 20 mph using the 36V 201 Q100 and it should climb fairly well.
Start with the stock controller, as this set-up will have ok torque. Mod KU63 shunt as you feel the need.
I haven't seen that a Q100 can live on a kU93 controller, so if you go that route, you are going into unexplored territory and taking a risk.
Where do you live? profile?
 
How did you get the 36v q100 into the ebike simulator? What speed will it go at 328rpm?
I live in singapore. 78kg and will install it on my 21speed foldable bike. With my 48x14t gear ratios i. can only go 22kph with serious paddling so i will need to change to a 11t. However going down hill its really wobbly at 40kph so i think thats the max speed i wanna do. Around 25mph? I think 20mph on a full 54v is good but my concern is when it reaches 46v so i wanna know the 328rpm specs

The plan also is to use a 3 speed switch on a ku93 and limit my usage of the 3rd switch to only a few seconds. Will that work?
 
I substitute the EZEE motors and adjust the throttle settings so they have the same no-load speed numbers;
Ezee 20"-good match for Q100, 328
Ezee 26"-reduce throttle setting to 92% to match 201. Reducing throttle setting works well for slow winds, as they are rpm limited, but does not work well with fast winds as they are power limited.
Ezee 26"-good match for a MXUS @ 100% throttle.

Because they become Power limited, fast wound mini's behave in a unique way out in the real world. I tried to explain the effect to another poster;

"If I run a "201"[really 230 rpm] slow wind in my MTB with 24" wheel and 48V and low Amps, say 15, the top speed will be, say, 21 mph. It doesn't really vary much because the motor is at it's max rpm for that voltage. it just doesn't want to spin faster.
But if I use a 328[270 rpm] fast wind in the same bike, wheel battery and controller, the top speed might be the same, not because it's up against the rpm limit, but because the POWER limit has been reached[especially with my big butt on the bike]. But if the slightest thing changes, a 1 mph tail wind, a .05% downhill grade or if I simply skipped breakfast, the speed can go up quite a bit, maybe 23, 24 mph or higher. I've actually had the bike up over 30 mph on a downhill and my Cycle Analyst was telling me the motor was still trying to put power into the load[200 Watts]. Now that is a much wider spread than one would expect for the 40 rpm difference in 36V no-load speeds, so the difference in the rpm "spread" in not linear. The other ting is, the fast wind likes the Amps and if your controller can give some extra, you can get some more speed by current alone.
And the fast wind can still take off and climb pretty good, up to[or down to, I should say]a point. For my fast wind on the steepest hill around me, that point is about 12 mph. At that speed, it's just dying and if I hold the throttle, it would burn up.
But the slow wind will keep climbing at that speed. So, if I had to climb that hill everyday and didn't want to get off and push, I would need the slow wind, even though I like the |wider spread" of speed ranges the fast wind offers.
Now, if variables more favorable to the fast wind are in the mix, like if the rider was 100 lb.s lighter than me or a smaller wheel was used, his hill is less steep or if the rider simply has really good karma, the fast wind can offer the elements of a "free ride". As long as the rider doesn't get down into the "chuggy" range.
I suspect this is what you enjoying as to how your fast wind is performing compared to the slow wind.
This is not very scientific and I'm over-generalizing, but I'm just trying to explain my observations."

You are now wanting more out of the Q100 than it is capable. Going fast wind to get 40 Kph and trying to retrive some climbing ability b y pushing up the Amps is a melt-down waiting to happen, especially in an enviourment like Singapore.
Time to think about building in some reserve, like dual Q100's or the MXUS, which will take considerably more power.
Whichever way you go, think rear drive since you are going to replace your cassette. You could use the 7-speed, 11T DNP instead. Especially if you went with the MXUS[emissionsfree.com). I have a frt. MXUS running on a Lyen Mini-Monster controller[22 A]and even in a 24" wheel and a heavier rider, it wants to spin if a jab the throttle, even on dry pavement, let alone in the wet/hill.
Read my link below for my experiences with dual Q100's and the MXUS.
 
WOW that was very educative motomech! :shock:

I am actually going to motorise 2 folding bikes so I can learn from the 2 different specs on the same type of bike and play around with the extra controllers/switches/throttles.

I already have 2 identical 48v15AH li-nicomn which outputs 54V 13s, one without a BMS (faulty BMS i bypassed). Both are 4.6kg each

shopping list (still pending):

1. q100 36v 328rpm front motor kit (with 36v ku63) - For me. BATTERY FRONTRACK MOUNTED. I'm hoping the extra weight will help with traction at the front. As recommended by you. I will probably need to use the ku93 on this battery without the BMS as I need the LVC of the 48V controller.

2. q100 24v 201rpm rear motor kit (with 36v ku63 if possible) - For the wife. BATTERY BACKRACK MOUNTED. As recommended by d8veh

3. Extra q100 36v 201rpm motor in case i melt any one of above, i can just switch the internals - I suspect the fastwind will melt first.

4. 2 x ku93 (to play with)
5. 4 x 3-speed switches
6. 3 types of throttles
7. 2 x 48/11T gears
8. Hybrid Tyres (The current road tyres are way too bumpy at 100psi).
9. Torque arms.

I hope both bikes will perform equally under the same conditions even though they have different motors configs. Will be interesting to find out.

Am I missing out anything?
 
Sorry, I forgot that the option was 328rpm not 393rpm, so the speed would be a corresponding amount slower. I don't disagree with anything Motormech says. I think your shopping list looks OK to have a lot of fun experimenting. One way or another you should be able to achieve what you want and I look forward to seeing how you progress. For what it's worth in case anybody else wants to do a similar conversion, from my own experience, my 24v 201 rpm motor at 48v (12s) and 17 amps in 20" wheels pulls me (100kg) along the flat at an actual speed of about 22 mph. After about a mile like that, nothing was particularly warm. Most of the time I go slower than that. I've switched back to a 36v LiFePO4 battery now because I bricked my lipos after leaving it switched on for a couple of weeks with my Speedict discharging. With this battery there's nowhere near the power, torque or speed of the 12S lipos. The difference is a lot more than the difference in voltage would suggest probably because the 36v battery can't provide enough current.
 
Some data i would like to share comparing 24v201rpm front mount vs 36v328rpm rear mounted on 13s 54V.

I have two identical bikes and tried both of them. the 36v328rpm i would say its around 8% faster vs the 24v201rpm. I don't find it has any penalty when going up slopes either. The only downside is the 36v328rpm is much noisier than the 24v201rpm perhaps due to the planetary gears. The 24v is almost silent. the 36v has a growl to it even at low speeds. Going uphill the growl is even more noticeable.
 
Grin Technologies (ebikes.ca) has put Cute Q100 with 328 RPM winding thru their motor test stand. The result was used to define a cute Q100 motor model for their ebike simulator. So it is easy to find the approximate ebike performance using this motor before you build. Pretty neat for anyone considering this motor.

Select the Cute motor in the upper selection box. You may set up to two different ebike systems to be compared.
http://www.ebike.ca/simulator/

Thank you Grin Tech! :D :D
 
Back
Top