CYC Photon Gen 2?

[sysrq]

I'm fishing for lights for my cyc photon build. I've found something https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000833729468.html which seems quiet good for a 52v system but it uses a 2 pin Higo male connector. I need a xt-90 male for the photon right?
Does it connect to the harness of the photon or am i missing something? is there even enough space on the harness or should i get an extension like to double xt-90 connections ??

Why does this headlight beam pattertn has large dark area in the middle?
This one seems to have fairly smooth foreground/naerfield but it requires reflowing led emitters for sst-20 2700k 95cri high r9 value to reduce glare in clear and foggy conditions. Opening requires hot air gun around the perimeter of aluminium housing. It also has threaded holes on sides to add 120° led star mcpcb's for strategic use of peripheral offroad/camping lights.

JMEST LEAD 4 Inch Led Motorcycle Headlight,45W Cool White, Hi Lo Beam Universal Led Driving Work Lights for Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

JMEST LEAD 4 Inch Led Motorcycle Headlight,45W Cool White, Hi Lo Beam Universal Led Driving Work Lights for Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

www.amazon.co.uk

4" Universal Motorcycle Led Headlights Driving Lights DRL Driving Running Lights LED Spotlight Headlight Work Light Hi/Lo Beam Headlamp Spotlights for All Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike Car (1 Pack) : Amazon.ca: Automotive

4" Universal Motorcycle Led Headlights Driving Lights DRL Driving Running Lights LED Spotlight Headlight Work Light Hi/Lo Beam Headlamp Spotlights for All Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike Car (1 Pack) : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

 

[growler40]

Why does this headlight beam pattertn has large dark area in the middle?
This one seems to have fairly smooth foreground/naerfield but it requires reflowing led emitters for sst-20 2700k 95cri high r9 value to reduce glare in clear and foggy conditions. Opening requires hot air gun around the perimeter of aluminium housing. It also has threaded holes on sides to add 120° led star mcpcb's for strategic use of peripheral offroad/camping lights.

JMEST LEAD 4 Inch Led Motorcycle Headlight,45W Cool White, Hi Lo Beam Universal Led Driving Work Lights for Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

JMEST LEAD 4 Inch Led Motorcycle Headlight,45W Cool White, Hi Lo Beam Universal Led Driving Work Lights for Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

www.amazon.co.uk

4" Universal Motorcycle Led Headlights Driving Lights DRL Driving Running Lights LED Spotlight Headlight Work Light Hi/Lo Beam Headlamp Spotlights for All Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike Car (1 Pack) : Amazon.ca: Automotive

4" Universal Motorcycle Led Headlights Driving Lights DRL Driving Running Lights LED Spotlight Headlight Work Light Hi/Lo Beam Headlamp Spotlights for All Motorcycle ATV Truck E-Bike Car (1 Pack) : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

Issue with most lights is not being mountable on normal bicycles. I have managed to rig something up using spacers on the stem bolts and attaching brackets, but it’s not ideal. Handlebar clamps are terrible too if they use rubber, which squirms with shock. Your best bet is something like a trail evo, monteer, or gloworm. I don’t really recommend my mounting strategy unless you are fine experimenting and are willing to do a bit of fabrication, and even then, it’s not very pretty

 

[growler40]

Speak of the devil, this just went on sale MagicShine ME2000 Ebike Headlight for CYC

 

[Kieron75]

Anyone here have or are familiar with the pinion gear setup on the Surly Moonlander 2.0 (the longer wheelbase version with the 24x6.2 tires)?

Apparently there is a 100mm threaded bottom bracket in it so am thinking whether to retire my 16 year old Pug (with an X1 Pro Gen 2) and treat myself to a Photon 2 equipped Moonlander for winter duty here in N. Michigan.

But…..do they pair well?

 

[lisalis]

whats the limit amps of the controller ?

 

[lisalis]

Speak of the devil, this just went on sale MagicShine ME2000 Ebike Headlight for CYC

isnt the me2000 usually 6-12v ? on their website i see no infos about that light version ??

The issue with so many lights is the absence of low/high beam without even talking about the lack of 72v support and the lack of mounting points. We really in shitty waters we need step downs

 

[growler40]

isnt the me2000 usually 6-12v ? on their website i see no infos about that light version ??

The issue with so many lights is the absence of low/high beam without even talking about the lack of 72v support and the lack of mounting points. We really in shitty waters we need step downs

the light in that page has all the specs of the normal me2000, so it has high beam, low beam, drl. the version they are selling connects to the 12v connector on the photon. Lack of beam choice is definitely an issue in some lights but personally I have no problem using two separate lights. The need for step downs is annoying but oh well, it’s more versatile to design a general pod light than a specific high voltage ebike variant. Even though the cyc photon supports 12v through the controller, it’s only 2-3a, and I don’t like that it requires holding down the up display button to turn on/off.

If you want the best high/low beam light I’d probably recommend the gigigo gio2-S. It’s basically just the setup im running with two pod lights but better because they worked it into one light and cleaner controls. The only issue is you need to fabricate a mount

 

[growler40]

nearly 1k mile wear update, fairly heavy stress testing. Gears are perfectly fine (looks misshapen but it’s just grease), but the grease went bad likely much earlier at around 600 miles, when i started experiencing issues like higher noise levels, and sudden drive loss and scratchy noise (to be fair a little debris in the shaft and chainring area likely contributed to drag). I would honestly recommend checking factory grease before 500 miles. Grease looks like gruel and will be replaced with new molykote br-2 plus

PS: removing the chain guard is tough after not removing it a while, even though i removed it fairly recently to regrease. the chainring adapter is the toughest thing I’ve ever had to remove. Doesn’t really matter what tool you have because the wheel rotates all the same when trying to remove it, need really strong determination, and possibly a heat gun and mallet and vice grip

 

[hindesite]

nearly 1k mile wear update, fairly heavy stress testing. Gears are perfectly fine (looks misshapen but it’s just grease), but the grease went bad likely much earlier at around 600 miles, when i started experiencing issues like higher noise levels, and sudden drive loss and scratchy noise (to be fair a little debris in the shaft and chainring area likely contributed to drag). View attachment 384388I would honestly recommend checking factory grease before 500 miles. Grease looks like gruel and will be replaced with new molykote br-2 plus
View attachment 384389View attachment 384390
PS: removing the chain guard is tough after not removing it a while, even though i removed it fairly recently to regrease. the chainring adapter is the toughest thing I’ve ever had to remove. Doesn’t really matter what tool you have because the wheel rotates all the same when trying to remove it, need really strong determination, and possibly a heat gun and mallet and vice grip

Wow, that is very different to my ~3 year old/3000km original Photon. Even the machined faces look different. I don't know if CYC continued using it later, but my motor was one of the earliest and had a very white waxy looking grease applied, which made it easy to see how bad the wear was likely to be (the grease turns grey from the metal particles caused by wear). On mine the interior of the motor was perfect and probably didn't need attention. The only reason I pulled it apart was because the large 80x100x10 output bearing immediately behind the chainring had failed quite badly due to contamination - everything else was perfectly clean.

Getting the chainring off requires leaving the motor mounted on the bike, a chain whip and the CYC pin tool (possibly with pipe extensions). I use copper anti-seize grease - just a very tiny smear because it can migrate quite easily and you don't want that - and that helps a lot.

 

[growler40]

Wow, that is very different to my ~3 year old/3000km original Photon. Even the machined faces look different. I don't know if CYC continued using it later, but my motor was one of the earliest and had a very white waxy looking grease applied, which made it easy to see how bad the wear was likely to be (the grease turns grey from the metal particles caused by wear). On mine the interior of the motor was perfect and probably didn't need attention. The only reason I pulled it apart was because the large 80x100x10 output bearing immediately behind the chainring had failed quite badly due to contamination - everything else was perfectly clean.

Getting the chainring off requires leaving the motor mounted on the bike, a chain whip and the CYC pin tool (possibly with pipe extensions). I use copper anti-seize grease - just a very tiny smear because it can migrate quite easily and you don't want that - and that helps a lot.

I am curious if my issues are a sprag clutch thing, but I’ve seen one video on sprag clutch failure for the gen 1 and it looked/sounded very different. Either way, gonna take some time to fix it, cyc and my dealer aren’t exactly quick and I am busy myself

 

[hindesite]

I am curious if my issues are a sprag clutch thing, but I’ve seen one video on sprag clutch failure for the gen 1 and it looked/sounded very different. Either way, gonna take some time to fix it, cyc and my dealer aren’t exactly quick and I am busy myself

Spragg clutch failure would be a big deal on the Gen2, since CYC made a big deal about making the clutch larger to avoid failures seen on the original - as well as inherently dealing with less torque because of the change to in-runner design.

 

[growler40]

Spragg clutch failure would be a big deal on the Gen2, since CYC made a big deal about making the clutch larger to avoid failures seen on the original - as well as inherently dealing with less torque because of the change to in-runner design.

You're right it's unlikely to be the sprag clutch, I would be surprised if the steel gears wore out that quickly, but they might need perfect meshing, and it would suck if the drive gear wore out since I'm not sure it's replaceable. It really is strange because I've had days where I get it more often and then can go a few days without getting it at all like recently. I've been focused on pushing it harder than usual, but just can't get it to happen. It actually happens more often on flats than hills, usually while the motor is still accelerating. I pretty much can't ever record it when I want to, and sometimes it's hard for the camera to pick it up. I only have one video on it

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[hindesite]

You're right it's unlikely to be the sprag clutch, I would be surprised if the steel gears wore out that quickly, but they might need perfect meshing, and it would suck if the drive gear wore out since I'm not sure it's replaceable. It really is strange because I've had days where I get it more often and then can go a few days without getting it at all like recently. I've been focused on pushing it harder than usual, but just can't get it to happen. It actually happens more often on flats than hills, usually while the motor is still accelerating. I pretty much can't ever record it when I want to, and sometimes it's hard for the camera to pick it up. I only have one video on it

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I can't see the vid, but it does seem to me likely that it is the spragg clutch, especially with it being intermittent and not engaging so reliably under lighter loads. Maybe the grease is preventing full engagement. I would expect it to be more of a problem at lower temperatures and at the start of rides.

CYC are a bit slower with support than they were a couple of years ago, but apart from that I find them pretty good to deal with. Recently I was able to buy replacement clutches (just in case), a replacement output bearing and a couple of chainring parts with no issues. At least parts are available and not expensive, even though they really need to address their shipping costs.

 

[growler40]

I can't see the vid, but it does seem to me likely that it is the spragg clutch, especially with it being intermittent and not engaging so reliably under lighter loads. Maybe the grease is preventing full engagement. I would expect it to be more of a problem at lower temperatures and at the start of rides.

CYC are a bit slower with support than they were a couple of years ago, but apart from that I find them pretty good to deal with. Recently I was able to buy replacement clutches (just in case), a replacement output bearing and a couple of chainring parts with no issues. At least parts are available and not expensive, even though they really need to address their shipping costs.

Someone theorized it could be the throttle, i will test and update. Seems possible, given the similar gen 1 issue was firmware related

 

[hindesite]

Someone theorized it could be the throttle, i will test and update. Seems possible, given the similar gen 1 issue was firmware related

The Gen 1 scratchy noise was only really evident at low or no speed, it seemed to be an acoustic effect of the controller waveform with the motor acting as a transducer. CYC have gone to a huge amount of trouble to reduce this with the Gen 2.

 

[growler40]

The Gen 1 scratchy noise was only really evident at low or no speed, it seemed to be an acoustic effect of the controller waveform with the motor acting as a transducer. CYC have gone to a huge amount of trouble to reduce this with the Gen 2.

idk, just throwing out ideas. feel like if it was the sprag clutch the issue would be more common. only heard from one other person, they have the same issue with a mostly brand new motor, and cyc replaced the sprag clutch but it wasn't resolved, and seems they have no idea how to fix it and will probably refund it

 

[growler40]

The Gen 1 scratchy noise was only really evident at low or no speed, it seemed to be an acoustic effect of the controller waveform with the motor acting as a transducer. CYC have gone to a huge amount of trouble to reduce this with the Gen 2.

so found a couple more people with the same issue as mine, pretty much same phenomenon right out of the box, and we all suspect its the clutch, i mean, even cyc suspected it was the clutch and replaced it for one motor which didn't fix it, but that was for "bad grease". it sounds like more people have this issue than i thought and just weren't saying anything about it yet. if it turns out everyone has this problem then the clutch might not be designed well or hopefully its just the grease they're using. i'd also wonder how they didn't come across this problem in their own testing. some people have it worse than others, there was a point in time i had it pretty bad and now it's infrequent enough to be bearable. but if you're one of those unlucky people it's genuinely unusable and a huge oversight. however i haven't received any support or guidance on this from cyc, they just direct me to my dealer, and they seem to usually not be on the same page and very slow

 

[hindesite]

so found a couple more people with the same issue as mine, pretty much same phenomenon right out of the box, and we all suspect its the clutch, i mean, even cyc suspected it was the clutch and replaced it for one motor which didn't fix it, but that was for "bad grease". it sounds like more people have this issue than i thought and just weren't saying anything about it yet. if it turns out everyone has this problem then the clutch might not be designed well or hopefully its just the grease they're using. i'd also wonder how they didn't come across this problem in their own testing. some people have it worse than others, there was a point in time i had it pretty bad and now it's infrequent enough to be bearable. but if you're one of those unlucky people it's genuinely unusable and a huge oversight

That will be a disaster but at least CYC can easily correct the problem immediately so others won't be affected - though some dealers will have to recall and fix a few motors. The whole idea of going to the larger clutch was to avoid this problem.

The type of grease used on the clutches is very different from the rest of the motor, it is designed to be not at all sticky, so the clutch engages quickly and completely without slipping. There would be the real possibility of damage to the mating surfaces if there is incomplete engagement or slipping during use, even if not noticeable to the user.

CYC go to some trouble to spec the grease to be used in their docs for the Gen 1 so I assume they do the same for the Gen 2, and it is not a common type which is a pain for end users.

 

[growler40]

That will be a disaster but at least CYC can easily correct the problem immediately so others won't be affected - though some dealers will have to recall and fix a few motors. The whole idea of going to the larger clutch was to avoid this problem.

The type of grease used on the clutches is very different from the rest of the motor, it is designed to be not at all sticky, so the clutch engages quickly and completely without slipping. There would be the real possibility of damage to the mating surfaces if there is incomplete engagement or slipping during use, even if not noticeable to the user.

CYC go to some trouble to spec the grease to be used in their docs for the Gen 1 so I assume they do the same for the Gen 2, and it is not a common type which is a pain for end users.

I’m ngl the more I test the more I think it’s the throttle, I edited it out of my previous reply because I could not get it to happen on a stand, but that’s probably because it draws barely any current. A mechanical issue should be more consistent and worse at higher loads

The more i test, the more i think it’s a controller bug/firmware like I originally thought

 

[growler40]

yup I think I can rule out anything mechanical now. As far as electrical goes, very likely it’s the controller. If we assume controller, now it’s just if it’s FOC desynchronization (likely), phase current over limit/protection blip, or hall sensor signal marginal near mid rpm, or throttle signal noise (unlikely).

If we assume firmware like the gen 1, it narrows it down to:

-FOC Rotor estimation bug
-Phase Current Limit / Protection Threshold bug
-Torque mapping/curve bug

 

[growler40]

also being a firmware bug is more reason they wouldnt get back to us, at least with a proper solution

 

[lisalis]

the light in that page has all the specs of the normal me2000, so it has high beam, low beam, drl. the version they are selling connects to the 12v connector on the photon. Lack of beam choice is definitely an issue in some lights but personally I have no problem using two separate lights. The need for step downs is annoying but oh well, it’s more versatile to design a general pod light than a specific high voltage ebike variant. Even though the cyc photon supports 12v through the controller, it’s only 2-3a, and I don’t like that it requires holding down the up display button to turn on/off.

If you want the best high/low beam light I’d probably recommend the gigigo gio2-S. It’s basically just the setup im running with two pod lights but better because they worked it into one light and cleaner controls. The only issue is you need to fabricate a mount

i mean the gigigo is still 12-24v i dont get it why not make lights in the 12-72v range lol

 

[growler40]

i mean the gigigo is still 12-24v i dont get it why not make lights in the 12-72v range lol

yes, I'm talking about 12v lights, which is standard for good reasons. led's don't run off high voltage, cyc ebike headlights certainly have a buck inside, and requires a minimum of 36v. It’s unnecessary and more incompatible for 95% of bikes as the controller or other electronics include a buck. It's also more complex and more liability for manufacturers to sell a light that connects directly rather than assuming regulated input. It's easy to add a bigger amp buck externally if the controller isn't enough

 

[pomah]

Sorry for asking, but the Photon has a light output? I could not find any info about that in any documentation?

 

[lisalis]

yes, I'm talking about 12v lights, which is standard for good reasons. led's don't run off high voltage, cyc ebike headlights certainly have a buck inside, and requires a minimum of 36v. It’s unnecessary and more incompatible for 95% of bikes as the controller or other electronics include a buck. It's also more complex and more liability for manufacturers to sell a light that connects directly rather than assuming regulated input. It's easy to add a bigger amp buck externally if the controller isn't enough

how do you attach the gigigo to your handlebar ? the mounting option seems odd for an ebike