CYC PHOTON

[Mongo]

Important point is you get the hobby and many haven't a clue. I look forward to you sharing your builds on the forum if you care to.
In particular there is a lot of buzz about the Photon motor. For me personally, I am more interested in what is anticipated which is a higher power big brother of the Photon....may be called the Proton. I likely would have built with the big boy CYC because I like power but I can't stand a loud sound signature when riding an e-bike. As you and others have reported, the Photon is quiet like the BBSHD which is a major win and here-to-fore the achilles heel of CYC. Best of luck with your health and ebike pursuits.

@Wattman, I'd to ask you about the gearing choices you mentioned earlier, as it digs up my ongoing concerns related to gearing so high - high enough that I can sorta keep up with my 75 cadence stomping (not spinning) style, but not bogging the motor. I take an uneducated guess and say the motors are most efficient when run under load (and the bike geared as needed), at, oh, 75% of their unloaded speed, at the pedal spindle. If the Bafang specs are true, the BBS02 runs at 140 rpm and the BBSHD 150 rpm - again, spindle speed, and unloaded. I can't apply any meaningful leg push at 75% of either of those numbers. My Luna Ludacrous motors turn even faster, in the 180s or so. So does the Photon. The Proton? Past 300, IIRC.

I'd have also guessed that most riders can't either, at least not with any duration or efficiency, and in reality there's a whole lot of air pedaling with little real push going on. Hopefully my guess is wrong.

I've had this motor efficiency question and (perhaps unfounded) bogging the motor concern for quite some time - bogging also leading to overheating.

 

[cresny]

Though I had concerns when I saw that CYC choose not to anchor the motor firmly, I haven't had or noticed any turning or motor movement. During the install, I butted the motor up against a cable stop screwed into one of the down tube water bottle bosses.

I did buy an $8 open-ended cup wrench, so that I could check the spindle cup tightness without having to remove the crank arm.

I didn't install any of the three spacer blocks (68mm BB install), choosing instead to just use some shortened M4 screws to hold the plate to the motor.

I'm thinking of adapting a hinged downtube clamp such as one of these Hinged Water Bottle Cage Clamps. Otherwise I find that it does lose position eventually, though it does hold its place better than the TSDZ2 did.

 

[Mongo]

I'm thinking of adapting a hinged downtube clamp such as one of these Hinged Water Bottle Cage Clamps. Otherwise I find that it does lose position eventually, though it does hold its place better than the TSDZ2 did.

I use those - not for holding the motor, but for fork stabilizer spring stops. They stay in place well.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

According to CYC old 750c display works with big X6 controller ( https://www.cycmotor.com/product-page/cyc-x6-controller-upgrade-kit )
Does 750c display work with X6P controller in PHOTON as well?

 

[ksbk]

According to CYC old 750c display works with big X6 controller ( https://www.cycmotor.com/product-page/cyc-x6-controller-upgrade-kit )
Does 750c display work with X6P controller in PHOTON as well?

Ask Cyc and then you are covered by warranty if they say it is ok. Then you dont have to fudge/fake another claim when you destroy the controller by guessing.

 

[Mongo]

Ask Cyc and then you are covered by warranty if they say it is ok. Then you dont have to fudge/fake another claim when you destroy the controller by guessing.

Agree, and I would verify it with CYC, to be sure and covered. I can say that Electrify Bike told me the 750C display will work with the Photon (and I have one on order). AFAIK, you'll lose most, if not all, of the secondary info displayed by the DS103 (motor and controller temps, human power, cadence, etc.) and I like the DS103 button panel ergonomics and size.

But ...

Honestly, I find the DS103 display very disappointing (mentioned in a gripe post above), which is why I'm changing it out. I would have preferred a CYC-compatible 500C, but couldn't find one in stock. I don't find the DS103's secondary info that useful and don't want to fret/focus on it while riding. As with other displays I have, the clock is, well, pathetic. The controller is minding the temps, so I don't really need to worry about or even monitor them.

If I ever need to read the secondary info the phone app likely has it all, and for all I know can log it.

P.S. I'll venture out on a weak limb and guess that you could even plug in a Bafang-compatible display and not hurt the controller, because of the way the motor-to-display interface works. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Bafang display couldn't properly interpret the CYC controller data stream and vice-versa - strictly a guess on my part.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

IT is weird that old 750c display for Asi bac855 works also with x6 vesc controller but Eggrider v2 does not.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Agree, and I would verify it with CYC, to be sure and covered. I can say that Electrify Bike told me the 750C display will work with the Photon (and I have one on order). AFAIK, you'll lose most, if not all, of the secondary info displayed by the DS103 (motor and controller temps, human power, cadence, etc.) and I like the DS103 button panel ergonomics and size.

But ...

Honestly, I find the DS103 display very disappointing (mentioned in a gripe post above), which is why I'm changing it out. I would have preferred a CYC-compatible 500C, but couldn't find one in stock. I don't find the DS103's secondary info that useful and don't want to fret/focus on it while riding. As with other displays I have, the clock is, well, pathetic. The controller is minding the temps, so I don't really need to worry about or even monitor them.

If I ever need to read the secondary info the phone app likely has it all, and for all I know can log it.

P.S. I'll venture out on a weak limb and guess that you could even plug in a Bafang-compatible display and not hurt the controller, because of the way the motor-to-display interface works. But I doubt the Bafang display would properly interpret the CYC data stream and vice-versa.

my main problem with those big lcd displays is that they are too simple. They do not show enough of information. I would prefer something less fancy in terms of ui but with more data on single page.

My Perfect display Would have all those data on one page:
Time
Controller temp
Motor temp
Battery voltage
Battery percent
Current speed
Average speed
Max speed
Current power
Average power
Max power
Motor RPM
Human Cadence
Human power
Trip distance
Ride time
Consumed Wh
Average Wh/km
Estimated range left

 

[hindesite]

my main problem with those big lcd displays is that they are too simple. They do not show enough of information. I would prefer something less fancy in terms of ui but with more data on single page.

My Perfect display Would have all those data on one page:
Time
Controller temp
Motor temp
Battery voltage
Battery percent
Current speed
Average speed
Max speed
Current power
Average power
Max power
Motor RPM
Human Cadence
Human power
Trip distance
Ride time
Consumed Wh
Average Wh/km
Estimated range left

I'd be happy with data logging...

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I've got most all that but it takes a two units - batt-man for the electric stuff, garmin for the rest...

Makes the motor "display" redundant and rather pointless except for the buttons to change PAS.. I'd be entirely happy with just buttons and my two other "displays"...

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Some guy has faulty motor temp sensor

This explains why they included this option in the app

PS. I do not think that human power is also correctly calculated. Over 200W with speed under 20km/h??? It should be more around 50W.

 

[hindesite]

First ride after conversion (Easter 2023)​

For those sitting on the fence or still undecided about the Photon, maybe my experience will help.

The bike is a midfat (27.5x2.8) Boost 148 Silverback Slade Trail hardtail, with an interesting history. It has been a difficult bike to find a conversion kit for it, and the Photon fits the bike perfectly. Full story about the bike and it evolution into what it is today is here (a VERY long post):

Some comments on the 2018 Silverback Slade Comp

The almost finished bike looks great. The battery gives enough range for an afternoon ride, including some steep hill climbs (though I have some really steep climbs to try).

The conversion hasn’t changed the feel of the bike, the added weight doesn’t feel significant and the controls are relatively discrete. Bike weight is 21.5kg tubeless and including pedals.

The battery is a snug fit in the frame and is easily held in place with straps. The mounting system CYC have supplied is useless for any of my bike frames and takes up far too much space, very annoying. The battery is one of the weakest products from CYC IMNSHO. I'll add a reply at some stage with some photos of what you actually get when you buy one.

The Photon is a pretty good conversion for the kind of riding I mostly do, which are afternoon rides of a few hours or so, with a relatively small assist, and bearing in mind that I live in an extremely windy location, so getting caught in a headwind for the ride home can really ruin your day. For longer trips either more pedaling effort or a larger battery is required, the 520Wh CYC battery would also be usable as a spare backpack battery for long trips, too.

The motor is reasonably quiet; not noticeable when riding on seal (due to tire noise) or gravel. But when riding off road, you really notice the noise, especially where I ride. That is actually useful because CYC need to put more thought into their display and controls, it is too easy to switch into PAS 0 without realizing. I’m more interested in seeing my assist mode and don’t care about speed, I have my Xoss GPS for that. Maybe CYC could give an option to display PAS level instead of speed on the main display; they could also make a slightly long press required to switch off PAS. The 102 controller is worth a review in its own right at some stage, it could be so much better.

 

[ksbk]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Nice to see another post from an actual Photon owner instead of these people just posting links to youtube without even giving an opinion themselves, and also those who are ignorant enough to just post their experiences with a Bafang and not able to even compare properly because they dont own a Photon.

The Photon has never been marketed by Cyc as a replacement for a Bafang, it is users posting on forums who suggest this which is ridiculous. The Photon is more suited to those who want to convert their existing bike and have it perform like an expensive factory mid drive bike. That is what you should be comparing it to and not the heavy, ugly outdated Bafang.


Edited by nicobie

 

[CaptainCodswallop]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Nice to see another post from an actual Photon owner instead of these people just posting links to youtube without even giving an opinion themselves, and also those who are ignorant enough to just post their experiences with a Bafang and not able to even compare properly because they dont own a Photon.

The Photon has never been marketed by Cyc as a replacement for a Bafang, it is users posting on forums who suggest this which is ridiculous. The Photon is more suited to those who want to convert their existing bike and have it perform like an expensive factory mid drive bike. That is what you should be comparing it to and not the heavy, ugly outdated Bafang.

Can we please stop pasting links to youtube videos, especially that condescending, monotonous prat who just scours the internet and posts what others have already highlighted. FFs, a couple of years ago he was just figuring out how to mod a bafang while playing sidekick to Alan Hu at ERT, and now he preaches as if he is some sort of authority on ev's.

Thanks for your message taking a big crap on the community that I help to run with a rude and inaccurate message. I dunno why you want to hate on us. The channel was started purely to help people and create enthusiasm for DIY ebikes and give back to a community that helped me. I have never professed to be the all knowing authority on anything. On our thriving community both on YouTube and Discord there are lots of far more skilled people than me. I do not hide the fact that I used to help Alan at ERT. Back before he destroyed his business and the NXT display was in its infancy it was an exciting time. I helped to develop something that had huge promise. Unfortunately it failed. But you can see echoes of what was done in lots of companies products today. All of the Sur Ron upgrades essentially grew out from that first upgrade kit. A group of us tried very hard to fix the customer service issues at ERT but it was too late. Out of that dumpster fire though we forged the High Voltage community which was founded on customer service and integrity. You have no clue as to what went on back then. But lets just say that a lot of people got burned myself included.

Its funny how you label me as condescending yet in your message here you refer to the people posting on here as ignorant and you try to manipulate the conversation by stating what can be posted or who should post here. Or you tell people they can't post a link to one of my videos. That is the very definition of condescending. Telling other people how they should act and what they should do. Its also something that I steer clear from with my video work and I always make sure to say that they are my opinions and I am only too happy to engage in polite conversation and debate.

You would have a great deal more credibility if you focused on simply on making the point of your message. Which actually is a good one. The Photon should not be compared to the BBSHD. Its very clearly aimed at people that own nice bikes that want to make them electric. Factory built ebikes with good spec components are very expensive. So for a $2000 dollar investment (motor and battery) with CYC they can upgrade an existing and presumably much loved machine to an ebike with great components that will outperform and have more features than the $6000-$10000 dollar ebikes.

 

[hindesite]

Thanks for your message taking a big crap on the community that I help to run with a rude and inaccurate message. I dunno why you want to hate on us. The channel was started purely to help people and create enthusiasm for DIY ebikes and give back to a community that helped me. I have never professed to be the all knowing authority on anything. On our thriving community both on YouTube and Discord there are lots of far more skilled people than me. I do not hide the fact that I used to help Alan at ERT. Back before he destroyed his business and the NXT display was in its infancy it was an exciting time. I helped to develop something that had huge promise. Unfortunately it failed. But you can see echoes of what was done in lots of companies products today. All of the Sur Ron upgrades essentially grew out from that first upgrade kit. A group of us tried very hard to fix the customer service issues at ERT but it was too late. Out of that dumpster fire though we forged the High Voltage community which was founded on customer service and integrity. You have no clue as to what went on back then. But lets just say that a lot of people got burned myself included.

Its funny how you label me as condescending yet in your message here you refer to the people posting on here as ignorant and you try to manipulate the conversation by stating what can be posted or who should post here. Or you tell people they can't post a link to one of my videos. That is the very definition of condescending. Telling other people how they should act and what they should do. Its also something that I steer clear from with my video work and I always make sure to say that they are my opinions and I am only too happy to engage in polite conversation and debate.

You would have a great deal more credibility if you focused on simply on making the point of your message. Which actually is a good one. The Photon should not be compared to the BBSHD. Its very clearly aimed at people that own nice bikes that want to make them electric. Factory built ebikes with good spec components are very expensive. So for a $2000 dollar investment (motor and battery) with CYC they can upgrade an existing and presumably much loved machine to an ebike with great components that will outperform and have more features than the $6000-$10000 dollar ebikes.

Thanks for your perspective, as I didn't particularly appreciate my post being hijacked in such a negative way, especially as I had posted enough real (and hopefully helpful) information and opinion to generate a decent discussion. (Some) people tend to stay away from participating in contentious posts. Very little of the reply was related to my original contribution.

I see the Photon as taking over from where Bafang used to be; IMNSHO Bafang are now showing very little interest in further developing their (now quite old) system and seem to be moving into OEM territory. I don't have a problem with that move itself, since the big manufacturers all seem to need competition and their ebikes are not only horrendously expensive, they are all needlessly locking down service and parts availability, but I would have liked to see Bafang continue supporting the DIY and small builder community. Maybe CYC will do that, the Photon will probably appeal to a wider range of people than their other systems which probably appeal to harder-core enthusiasts.

 

[hindesite]

Right on the spot! I
I just received 2 Photon kits that I will install soon. These Photon motors will replace our TSDZ2 motors which have served us well for 20,000 km each.
I will give my opinion in the coming weeks.
For now I can say that the mechanical installation is faster and simpler. The quality of the machining is superior.

The biggest plus for me was that the TSDZ2 simply would not fit; the Bafangs would fit but the chainline would be unusable. Rear hub drives were not an option. Photon came along at exactly the right time. Cost was disappointing, but oh well...

Installation is very easy. Seems like good gear but the 34t chainring seems to be prototype level quality; I suspect they are not making many.

I have zero interest in blasting around on a BBSHD as if my bike was an underpowered (and under-braked) motorcycle (though of course they are not all used that way). Round here that would just annoy too many other users and end up getting us all restricted.

 

[CaptainCodswallop]

Thanks for your perspective, as I didn't particularly appreciate my post being hijacked in such a negative way, especially as I had posted enough real (and hopefully helpful) information and opinion to generate a decent discussion. (Some) people tend to stay away from participating in contentious posts. Very little of the reply was related to my original contribution.

I see the Photon as taking over from where Bafang used to be; IMNSHO Bafang are now showing very little interest in further developing their (now quite old) system and seem to be moving into OEM territory. I don't have a problem with that move itself, since the big manufacturers all seem to need competition and their ebikes are not only horrendously expensive, they are all needlessly locking down service and parts availability, but I would have liked to see Bafang continue supporting the DIY and small builder community. Maybe CYC will do that, the Photon will probably appeal to a wider range of people than their other systems which probably appeal to harder-core enthusiasts.

Yeah good points with Bafang. As soon as Bafang went public and got shareholders they lost interest or were ordered to reduce interest in what made them big in the first place which is a shame. You can see it with their botched job to bring the BBSHD into the restricted family with the m625. Its unfortunate that they are taking the locked down route. CYC have very much taken the torch for this kind of conversion motor and the hard work I think is going to pay off with this family of motors. There will also be a new company bringing out some models which will address many of the issues with both the Tong Shen and the BBS02. I will look forward to revealing more on that in the next few weeks. I had a ride with the Photon unrestricted today and I was very impressed particularly with PAS set to 1500watts. People in cars were pretty surprised.

 

[yantra yatra]

Has anyone ridden the photon to thermal throttling and can report back how much use it can take before this from experience? There was a general post earlier about this but it would be good to have an example - or video from use. I use bikes for practical transport and this involves lots of hills and speed at times. And some decent cargo with shopping etc.

I think the ToSeven MD01 motor at 160nm and 1000w, 6kg will better suit those kind of needs, and my preferred price point, and help make ebikes a more viable car substitute - if it turns out to work well (waiting with great interest to hear on this).

Re. Bafang they appear to be focussing more on motorbike motors, which is a bit of a shame I think. Electric bicycle giant Bafang expands into electric motorcycles with powerful new motors

What’s the point of making the bike so heavy and powerful and expensive? For most uses better motors for bikes would be more helpful. Bafang has also released this updated mid drive, (m560) 140nm and 750w nominal with torque sensing, 3.3kg. It would be great if it came as a bolt on retrofit kit!

Home

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

Edit: looking again at Bafang’s new e-motorbike motors they’re not (all) as overpowered as I thought, at 6kw, 30kw and 70kw peak power respectively, but don’t seem targeted at very practical uses which is more my interest

 

[Mongo]

Has anyone ridden the photon to thermal throttling and can report back how much use it can take before this from experience? There was a general post earlier about this but it would be good to have an example - or video from use. I use bikes for practical transport and this involves lots of hills and speed at times. And some decent cargo with shopping etc.

I took a brief crack at trying to hit the cutback, but the conditions weren't right for it (terrain, temperature, and humidity).

I think the ToSeven MD01 motor at 160nm and 1000w, 6kg will better suit those kind of needs, and my preferred price point, and help make ebikes a more viable car substitute - if it turns out to work well (waiting with great interest to hear on this).

I'd like to know how ToSeven is achieving twice the overall reduction as the BBSHD, when the exploded diagram gear train view looks almost identical to the BBSHD.

Some leap-of-faith ToSeven purchases are needed. Not me, currently - I've leaped on the CYC Photon wagon.

... I use bikes for practical transport ... viable car substitute ...

My uses are the same, although e-bike fiddling is also my main hobby.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Agree, and I would verify it with CYC, to be sure and covered. I can say that Electrify Bike told me the 750C display will work with the Photon (and I have one on order). AFAIK, you'll lose most, if not all, of the secondary info displayed by the DS103 (motor and controller temps, human power, cadence, etc.) and I like the DS103 button panel ergonomics and size.

Response from CYC technical support for my query

Hi Atak,


Unfortunately, the PHOTON kits are not compatible with 750c displays. Currently, there will be a firmware update for X6 controller users that will the number of assist levels, which will go up to 9 assist levels with smooth performance. For now, it’s programmed for 3 assist levels only. No specific date as of yet but the team is working on this to get this out as many users have reported this issue to us.

Looks like only BIG X6 controller is compatible with 750c display

 

[pxl666]

photon is so expensive ,at least from my perspective as I live in eastern Europe, that I'd rather save more money and buy integrated bafang than spend so much money on another convertion motor...simple for me ...I really waited for this motor but the price is ridiculous, especially that it has some issues...sorry but it seems to me that I'd would be better off buying used factory bike and invest in new battery...or second battery...
photon is simply too expensive as an interesting option for diy market from my point of view . and many ppl here in Poland shares this opinion

 

[Mongo]

Response from CYC technical support for my query

Unfortunately, the PHOTON kits are not compatible with 750c displays.

Thanks much for getting CYC's official word. I've got the 750C hooked up, set it up for three assist levels, and all of the rest of the stuff. I ran it on the stand, with the throttle, and at very brief torque assist levels. I can't road-test-ride it today, due to an injury - hopefully tomorrow, so I dunno what doesn't work correctly.

I'm not gonna like reverting back to the DS103 display.

 

[Mongo]

photon is so expensive ,at least from my perspective as I live in eastern Europe, that I'd rather save more money and buy integrated bafang than spend so much money on another convertion motor...simple for me ...I really waited for this motor but the price is ridiculous, especially that it has some issues...sorry but it seems to me that I'd would be better off buying used factory bike and invest in new battery...or second battery...
photon is simply too expensive as an interesting option for diy market from my point of view . and many ppl here in Poland shares this opinion

Understandable, especially regarding the pricing. You're not interested in the ToSeven series, should they become available?

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

photon is so expensive ,at least from my perspective as I live in eastern Europe, that I'd rather save more money and buy integrated bafang than spend so much money on another convertion motor...simple for me ...I really waited for this motor but the price is ridiculous, especially that it has some issues...sorry but it seems to me that I'd would be better off buying used factory bike and invest in new battery...or second battery...
photon is simply too expensive as an interesting option for diy market from my point of view . and many ppl here in Poland shares this opinion

Poland is not a part of eastern Europe. Every Pole knows that. Poland is part of central Europe like Czech republic or Slovakia.
Photon is not that expensive if you are going to use your bike as car replacement. Factory bikes are often heavier with smaller batteries (~500wh). Not to mention about speed cap set at 25km/h. Speedbox for factory bikes is not free either.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Thanks much for getting CYC's official word. I've got the 750C hooked up, set it up for three assist levels, and all of the rest of the stuff. I ran it on the stand, with the throttle, and at very brief torque assist levels. I can't road-test-ride it today, due to an injury - hopefully tomorrow, so I dunno what doesn't work correctly.

I'm not gonna like reverting back to the DS103 display

Interesting!