CYC PHOTON

[steve s]

X6p
Btw Has anybody tried connecting eggrider display to check if Basic functions work?

From what I was told the eggrider/sw102 for bafang are wired differently.. I could be wrong though

 

[67RS427]

I can also attest to the great service from Matt @ BMW... I originally placed my Photon order from Electrify Bike bc they told me on the phone during my consult and over email that they had units in stock. That was a lie as my order didn't ship after waiting 4 business days. I emailed Matt from Bicycle Motor Works because I had already bought the CYC headlights from him since everyone else was OOS and he said he had Photons ready to ship. Placed my order on Thursday (8/3) and received it on Saturday, two days later. I emailed him Saturday late in the day because I was having some install issues on my Trek Marlin 8 and he got back to me within 2 hours with pictures. Great service! I had already solved the issue but it's still great to know he's there if I need him.

As for the Photon, I freaking love it. This little motor is bad ass. I've only got 13 miles on it so far but haven't had any issues at all. Install was a bit of a pain on my Marlin 8 but that's because the BB on the Trek bikes is not round and needed to be ground out a lot for the motor and locking cup to fit. I cut and shortened my 1 to 2 wire pigtail harness by about 8-10" and the install came out pretty damn clean. My bike has a 1x12 speed 11-50T cassette and 30T chainring stock and can fit a 42T with a 3x front so I used a 7mm spacer on the drive side to get my 42T chainring to clear. All the gears work but I'll never use the lower 3 or 4 granny gears. I did test it out on the street in the unrestricted mode in 2nd gear and I got my bike to wheelie pretty damn hard and almost threw me off the bike. I took it into a retention pond pit at the end of my street and was able to get up the insane incline in PAS 1 with barely any effort at all. Can't wait to really torture this thing. Top speed for me has been about 36mph but I ran out of road and wasn't wearing a helmet so backed off.

I'd be happy to run some specific tests if anyone has any requests. After 13 miles, my 52v (58.8v) battery is reading 53.1v on my DS103 display and 51.75v on a multimeter. Kinda sucks all these displays on the market can't show the correct voltage. Hopefully they add a way to offset that so it shows properly. My frame is a size Small (27.5" tire) and I found the smallest 52v20Ah triangle battery I could find and it literally just barely fits. I bought the battery for $375 and it supposedly has Panasonic 21700 cells in a 14S4P configuration. Given the miles I've put on it so far and the voltage remaining, I don't doubt the capacity but will do a full run down to confirm. I may also cut open the battery to inspect it as well and maybe upgrade the 40A BMS to one with Bluetooth so I can monitor the cells.

Overall, so far I'm very happy with the CYC Photon on my 2022 Gen 2 Trek Marlin 8.

 

[raylo32]

Wired different, or different firmware? All the displays I have worked with for TSDZ2 OEM and OSF were flashable and had to be configured to match and communicate with the corresponding controller firmware. So, Updating the firmware was a 2 step procedure doing the controller and the display separately. Now we just did a Photon controller firmware update but not the display. Hmmm. So maybe they are fixed firmware and CYC has to make sure that any controller updates still work with the display.

From what I was told the eggrider/sw102 for bafang are wired differently.. I could be wrong though

 

[67RS427]

Wired different, or different firmware? All the displays I have worked with for TSDZ2 OEM and OSF were flashable and had to be configured to match and communicate with the corresponding controller firmware. So, Updating the firmware was a 2 step procedure doing the controller and the display separately. Now we just did a Photon controller firmware update but not the display. Hmmm. So maybe they are fixed firmware and CYC has to make sure that any controller updates still work with the display.

I'm pretty sure I read earlier in this thread about issues with the displays but can you remind me again why they aren't using the SW102 or DS103? Besides the voltage reading wrong, I see nothing wrong with the DS103 that I'm running. It's a great display! Sure the layout could be better optimized but who cares.

 

[raylo32]

Not sure what you are asking?? You can get either SW102 or DS 103. I opted for the SAW102 but mine is not working properly. The firmware is corrupted or it is otherwise defective.

I'm pretty sure I read earlier in this thread about issues with the displays but can you remind me again why they aren't using the SW102 or DS103?

 

[67RS427]

Not sure what you are asking?? You can get either SW102 or DS 103. I opted for the SAW102 but mine is not working properly. The firmware is corrupted or it is otherwise defective.

Ok, so that's why you ended up running a 500c Display? What vendor did you purchase from? It's a shame because they should really just send you another display. These vendors better step it up with the customer service for CYC's sake. Luckily my vendor has been very responsive and helpful. Sorry for your luck there, hopefully you get it sorted out soon.

 

[hindesite]

... I bought the battery for $375 and it supposedly has Panasonic 21700 cells in a 14S4P configuration. Given the miles I've put on it so far and the voltage remaining, I don't doubt the capacity but will do a full run down to confirm. I may also cut open the battery to inspect it as well and maybe upgrade the 40A BMS to one with Bluetooth so I can monitor the cells.

Can you give more details about the battery, link or manufacturer? That looks a lot better than some of the similar small triangle batteries.

 

[67RS427]

Can you give more details about the battery, link or manufacturer? That looks a lot better than some of the similar small triangle batteries.

So far it's performing pretty well. Comes with a decent 4 amp charger that has a cooling fan. Battery and charger have not gotten warm under any conditions so far. I do plan to tear it down and take a look at the build quality and BMS after a few cycles. The only thing I did to it was remove the XT60 connector and solder on an Anti Spark XT90.

52V 20Ah Electric Bicycle Battery Panasonic 21700 Lithium Ion Cell Battery 40A BMS Support 48V/52V 100-1600W

Description
Normal Voltage: 52V
Rated Capacity:20AH
Battery cell: Panasonic 21700 Class A battery
BMS: 40A
Charge voltage:2-5A
Discharge cut off voltage:58.8V
Configuration: 14S4P （4P*5000mAh=20000mAh=20Ah）
Max Constant Discharge Current: 40A( BMS)
Apply for: 100-1600W Motor
Charger : 58.8V 4A
Battery Cell: 3.7V 5000mAH Cell
Gross Weight: 12.6lb/5.715Kg
Battery Dimensions: 12x 7.5x 11 inches and T3.6 inches
Arrival time: 3-7 Days Delivery
Battery life advantage
Service life: more than 3 years
Charging times: more than 2000 times

Built-in BMS automatic battery protection system inside
Automatic short-circuit protection instantly
Flame Retardant Electrolyte: Yes
Length way circuit board: yes
Automatic Internal Cell Balancing: Yes

Packing List included:
1 x 52V 20Ah Ebike Battery Pack
1 x 58.8V 4.0Ah Charger
1 x Waterproof Case
1 x XT60 connector

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Real capacity of this battery is around 900 Wh if take into account cut-off point at 2.8V instead of 2.5V. Estimated range 100+ km assuming 8Wh/km

That panasonic should have similar discharge curve like samsung

 

[raylo32]

No, my 500C is on my X1 Pro Gen 2 bike. I believe Mongo is running a 500c on a Photon. Not sure why he is doing that. I am using the defective SW102. It works OK, the only thing wrong with it as far as I can tell is the inability to set wheel size, so all the data to include speed, are off. But at least the motor rides fine.

Ok, so that's why you ended up running a 500c Display? What vendor did you purchase from? It's a shame because they should really just send you another display. These vendors better step it up with the customer service for CYC's sake. Luckily my vendor has been very responsive and helpful. Sorry for your luck there, hopefully you get it sorted out soon.

 

[Mongo]

I believe Mongo is running a 500c on a Photon. Not sure why he is doing that.

Old eyesight, can't glance read tiny text - I've flipped over to the SW102, maybe for just the break-in period of this new build. Then again, maybe not. Decisions, decisions.

The clamshell displays swap fast, at the expense of a few wire ties.

 

[raylo32]

I would probably run a 500c, too, if they had one set up to show all Photon data. The 500c is much more readable in sunlight and has larger fonts, for sure. But from your report I'm not sure it does more than allow you to shift assist levels and show speed? I don't have any idea what the 500c on my BAC X1 Pro Gen 2 would do if connected to Photon.

Old eyesight, can't glance read tiny text - I've flipped over to the SW102, maybe for just the break-in period of this new build. Then again, maybe not. Decisions, decisions.

The clamshell displays swap fast, at the expense of a few wire ties.

 

[Mongo]

I would probably run a 500c, too, if they had one set up to show all Photon data. The 500c is much more readable in sunlight and has larger fonts, for sure. But from your report I'm not sure it does more than allow you to shift assist levels and show speed? I don't have any idea what the 500c on my BAC X1 Pro Gen 2 would do if connected to Photon.

The 500C also gives me a quick glance read of the power draw and battery level, and like the SW102 consumes a relatively small amount of bar real estate. I'm leaving the center of the bar/stem area free for navigation toys (Garmin Edge).

 

[steve s]

Did a decently long ride to test range Sunday. Battery is 52v 15ah I kept the bike on pas level three unrestricted I rode 44 miles of mixed hills with a 17mph average and had 50v left at the end. Conditions were hot with a 20 mph wind so kind of worst case. I'm very happy with this motor to say the least!

 

[raylo32]

Really? Hmmm. Is your 500c the same as the older 500c on my X1 Gen2? Or, is that a newer one optimized for X6 controller? Can you set the correct wheel size in there and have it read accurate speed? If so, why doesn't CYC make these optional for Photon?

The 500C also gives me a quick glance read of the power draw and battery level, and like the SW102 consumes a relatively small amount of bar real estate. I'm leaving the center of the bar/stem area free for navigation toys (Garmin Edge).

 

[raylo32]

I need to get a bigger battery. I am running a 12 AH and I can probably just squeeze it out to 40 miles but I am generally riding a bit faster, usually 19-20 rolling avg. I just made up the cable for my EGO power tool battery range extender setup and am charging up for a longer ride. That battery is 5AH. I don't know exactly what its amp limits are but I will not push that on high assist levels. I'll keep it down to750 watts like I did with it on TSDZ2 where it worked great. These batteries are also great for shorter rides like running to the grocery store. Just pop one on and go.

Did a decently long ride to test range Sunday. Battery is 52v 15ah I kept the bike on pas level three unrestricted I rode 44 miles of mixed hills with a 17mph average and had 50v left at the end. Conditions were hot with a 20 mph wind so kind of worst case. I'm very happy with this motor to say the least!

 

[steve s]

I need to get a bigger battery. I am running a 12 AH and I can probably just squeeze it out to 40 miles but I am generally riding a bit faster, usually 19-20 rolling avg. I just made up the cable for my EGO power tool battery range extender setup and am charging up for a longer ride. That battery is 5AH. I don't know exactly what its amp limits are but I will not push that on high assist levels. I'll keep it down to750 watts like I did with it on TSDZ2 where it worked great. These batteries are also great for shorter rides like running to the grocery store. Just pop one on and go.

I will also ride a little faster a good portion of the time especially on shorter rides but I was kind of shooting for max range while keeping a decent speed.

 

[raylo32]

Yeah, I sometimes find myself shifting to lower assists on rides now and then to extend the range... and I like to stil be able to go full power near the end where I need to make some quick moves on busier roads.

I will also ride a little faster a good portion of the time especially on shorter rides but I was kind of shooting for max range while keeping a decent speed.

 

[Mongo]

Really? Hmmm. Is your 500c the same as the older 500c on my X1 Gen2? Or, is that a newer one optimized for X6 controller? Can you set the correct wheel size in there and have it read accurate speed? If so, why doesn't CYC make these optional for Photon?

I think it's the same version, and CYC still lists the 500C as incompatible. Yep, I set the wheel size (both places), and it reads correctly, per GPS (the "26" setting on the display is more accurate than "27.5", with my 27.5x2 tires). I suggested to CYC that they incorporate a diameter/circumference alternative.

On both of my Photon builds, using the SW102, the display sets the wheel size (and the speed) correctly as well. The DS103 display seemed to be able to update both places (when changed at either place), but the voltage reading was 1.2 volts low.

My guess is that either the display can generate and transmit a valid serial stream or it can't, and likewise decodes same. The 500C probably just tosses the "huh?" data, like the temps. I wish the street/race mode switch worked - something neither the SW102 nor the DS103 supports, AFAIK.

As I've typed before, I'd really like it if CYC would develop a optional headless on/on & level switch pad that Bluetoothed a Garmin compatible data stream - the Garmin GPS displays are much, much easier to read, even in direct sunlight. Do away with the wheel speed sensor & wiring, too.

 

[Mongo]

and I like to stil be able to go full power near the end where I need to make some quick moves on busier roads.

Exactly - the ability to quickly blast where/when needed to stay alive, as it were.

I occasionally ride with a Bosch class 1 bike rider. No contest making it across a busy 8-lane intersection with a painfully short light. I'm gone and waiting up the hill on the other side while she's squeezing the yellow. Not to knock the Bosch system - from what I can tell it's very efficient.

 

[steve s]

Yeah, I sometimes find myself shifting to lower assists on rides now and then to extend the range... and I like to stil be able to go full power near the end where I need to make some quick moves on busier roads.

I usually start my rides on a lower assist to extend range and get some exercise .I switch to level zero if there is a good downhill to save battery. I tend to crank it up near the end of my ride if I'm tired and want to go home. My town is mostly country roads and nice bike trail so I don't worry about traffic much.

 

[raylo32]

Another good 38 miles today testing out the range on my EGO range extender battery. I have used it before but never to empty... and today I really pushed it too far. Thought I killed it but it is OK. I started out with the EGO battery intending to take it down to 47 or 48 volts. I stopped to read the voltage after ~13 miles (102 display is so small and not bright enough so I have to stop unless I catch some good shade) and it was at 49.x, so I decided to finish the 2 mile mostly flat roll into this town. As I entered the town the pedals went dead if I pushed a little hard... the motor was cutting out. So, I stopped to read the display and the battery was at 36V! Yikes. It really fell off the table. Swapped over to the super shark and finished the ride. And the EGO charger is filling that EGO battery up now. If it had been overly discharged it would have failed to take a charge. I probably need to not count on that battery for much more than 10 miles.

Anyway, here's my Photon rig built on a 1995 Cannondale F1000 size XL hardtail with 9-speed XTR shifting. I swapped the crappy HeadShok for a low maintenance coil spring RockShox. Otherwise, it has a PNW dropper post, Mavic 221 wheels with ceramic brake surfaces, Avid Single Digit V-brakes, and Garmin Edge and Varia mounts. The EGO battery mount is my 3D print design as is the rack mounted Varia mount. It is just about ready for a new set of tires... which I have on hand.

 

[raylo32]

Oh, I did get it hot enough today that it protectively ramped the power down. Toward the end I ride on the shoulder of a fairly busy road so I get myself really going so I can more easily slot into traffic to get over to make a left turn. So, full power pedaling for that... then after the turn there is no shoulder until about 1/3 mile so today I just hit the throttle. After a bit the bike started slowing down and I looked down and was able to read motor power was only like 750W at full throttle. Cycled the display to motor temp and it was 195. So that ability is confirmed.

 

[Mongo]

BTW, thanks guys for the build pics!

 

[hindesite]

... I wish the street/race mode switch worked - something neither the SW102 nor the DS103 supports, AFAIK.

SW102 supports switching between street and race modes, within 15s of startup.