CYC PHOTON

[biphaeboh]

Nice photos.
I looked up Mt. Kyeburn and it looks like it is in the same general vicinity as Dansey's Pass. Some friends had their wedding anniversary party there a few years ago. It was quite fun.

Good to hear that the Photon is working for you, you said you had it set up for low assist, what is it set to?

I have a Photon on a Jones HD/e, but i haven't given it a good workout yet. It is a bit disappointing to read some of the problems with Photon being reported.

 

[ebike_builder]

Recent back country ride with Photon

Time to re-animate this thread for another year I think. After all, it supposed to be summer down here now.

Thank you for the spectacular pictures and congrats on completing that ride! Your earlier post and video about a ride between two [unpronounceable] lakes was also excellent. When your shadow was visible I didn't see your legs moving so assumed you were using a throttle, but that just may have been you going downhill. I am and old guy who is still a serious analog cyclist (primarily road), but built an e-bike for my far less dedicated cycling wife. I used a Tongsheng TSDZ2 kit (with open source software). Lots of issues (mostly related to overheating in warm weather) that I will not delve into here. I looked at the CYC Photon, but was a bit reluctant due to its cost and some reports of problems. So I have bought a ToSeven DM-02 to equip my Ti hardtail mtb to be able to maybe do some rides like you do. But in the meantime, I got a very good deal on a Cervelo Rouvida e-gravel bike (with Fazua Ride 60 motor, 430wh battery, 60nm max torque). My primary use of an e-bike is to maximize the range so I can do longer and more challenging rides that might be a bit too much for me without assist. To maximize the range, I have used the Fazua app to tune down the lowest assist level from a max of 120 watts to 90 watts. Riding like this has allowed me to get excellent range -- I estimate 5 - 6 hours riding in the lowest assist level. Based on your success with the Photon I may consider it down the road if the DM-02 doesn't work out.

BTW my wife and I leave for a NZ trip in about two weeks. Bringing my [analog] road bike (can't fly with an e-bike). Here is the Rouvida:

 

[SammySamm]

This was a very long and steep (although low power) climb for the motor, and at no time did I see any temps above 60°C.

Hola hindesite.
I made the same experience in Gran Canaria with my „Alpine 6 / Photon“.
1100 km on the clock it has never exceed 70º C. No issues since, no loose crank with the „Miranda150mm“ (thank you).
May i ask which setting did you install (USA – Canada – EU – Unrestricted) ?
Thank you. Sammy

 

[hindesite]

Nice photos.
I looked up Mt. Kyeburn and it looks like it is in the same general vicinity as Dansey's Pass. Some friends had their wedding anniversary party there a few years ago. It was quite fun.

Good to hear that the Photon is working for you, you said you had it set up for low assist, what is it set to?

I have a Photon on a Jones HD/e, but i haven't given it a good workout yet. It is a bit disappointing to read some of the problems with Photon being reported.

The Danseys Pass hotel is just up the road from the crib, it seems quite rustic and has a reputation for really great food. I think assist was less than 100W 75W in the low mode, maybe 250W 300W for the throttle assist with that. I have a 52-11 cassette so it will go anywhere at low power, just takes longer.

There have been reports of problems but many of those were from the early (but not first) productions. Mine was quite early and I've only had minor issues with it. CYC staff are friendly, responsive and nice to deal with. Bear in mind that people are more likely to hang out in forums and recount bad experiences over good ones, if the bike was going well they'd be out riding it

 

[hindesite]

Thank you for the spectacular pictures and congrats on completing that ride! Your earlier post and video about a ride between two [unpronounceable] lakes was also excellent.

Kohangapiripiri, ('a nest clinging very strongly') and Kohangatera ('a nest basking in the sun') are notable as New Zealand's last remaining relatively unspoiled wetlands. Kohanga here is interpreted as a nest, but it can also relate to kindergarten or preschool.

When your shadow was visible I didn't see your legs moving so assumed you were using a throttle, but that just may have been you going downhill.

Believe me, if I was going uphill, I was pedaling - that uphill part is extremely steep. The downhill is fun, and has those spectacular views. Its about 30 min ride from my front door, and very little of that is on sealed public roads.

I am and old guy

I'm an old guy too.

who is still a serious analog cyclist (primarily road), but built an e-bike for my far less dedicated cycling wife. I used a Tongsheng TSDZ2 kit (with open source software). Lots of issues (mostly related to overheating in warm weather) that I will not delve into here. I looked at the CYC Photon, but was a bit reluctant due to its cost and some reports of problems.

I bought mine before there were any reports, let alone reports of problems

So I have bought a ToSeven DM-02 to equip my Ti hardtail mtb to be able to maybe do some rides like you do. But in the meantime, I got a very good deal on a Cervelo Rouvida e-gravel bike (with Fazua Ride 60 motor, 430wh battery, 60nm max torque). My primary use of an e-bike is to maximize the range so I can do longer and more challenging rides that might be a bit too much for me without assist. To maximize the range, I have used the Fazua app to tune down the lowest assist level from a max of 120 watts to 90 watts. Riding like this has allowed me to get excellent range -- I estimate 5 - 6 hours riding in the lowest assist level. Based on your success with the Photon I may consider it down the road if the DM-02 doesn't work out.

In my case, there was no other choice - nothing else fitted any of my bikes, which are more modern than many being converted.

BTW my wife and I leave for a NZ trip in about two weeks. Bringing my [analog] road bike (can't fly with an e-bike). Here is the Rouvida:

Well, I hope summer gets here before you do - but anyway, enjoy your holiday. South Island is great to visit, my condolences if you chose the North Island.

We get the occasional nice day though (quick ride to Baring Head):

 

[hindesite]

Hola hindesite.
I made the same experience in Gran Canaria with my „Alpine 6 / Photon“.
1100 km on the clock it has never exceed 70º C. No issues since, no loose crank with the „Miranda150mm“ (thank you).

Hey, glad I made the suggestion, I'm very happy with mine, though they were so tight I had to install shims to space them slightly. Being older I find the short cranks to be far more comfortable and also help with pedal strikes. Even on my accoustic bikes I've fitted shorter cranks - 160mm on my Trance X 29 and I recently picked up a 2014 Stumpjumper EVO for $150 - it had carbon 175mm cranks, broke my heart to remove them and fit Evosid 165mm DUB cranks, but it had to be done. I'm a small guy.

May i ask which setting did you install (USA – Canada – EU – Unrestricted) ?

Unrestricted - but that doesn't mean I ride around at 1500W. In NZ we have a 300W power limit, no throttle permitted, and there is no specific speed limit for ebikes (or acoustic bikes either). Despite that we still have to put up with this nonsense where we pay a lot of money for OTS bikes, which are speed limited generally at 25 or 32Kph. I think if you pay a bit more you can get bikes with 45Kph limits. Its crazy. The Photon avoids all that, and where I live and ride the restrictions CURRENTLY don't seem relevant. That may change, either with enforcement or with legislation. This should be way down the list of priorities facing NZ at present, we have far more important issues that need to be addressed.

Thank you. Sammy

View attachment 364267

I remember seeing that bike earlier in the thread, I imagine that would be ideal for where you live. It surprises me just how low km real MTBs run up, very different from commuting.

 

[dmcd]

Has anyone experienced any issues with their photon in cold (sub-freezing) weather. When I start to pedal or accelerate while pedaling, the motor makes a faint"squeal" with severe resistance that will stop after a second or two with an audible "click". I have to pedal it very gingerly for it not to do this. FWIW I don't have a throttle installed. Pedal-assist only on a commuter bike that has performed great when warm

 

[Epithemeus]

Has anyone experienced any issues with their photon in cold (sub-freezing) weather. When I start to pedal or accelerate while pedaling, the motor makes a faint"squeal" with severe resistance that will stop after a second or two with an audible "click". I have to pedal it very gingerly for it not to do this. FWIW I don't have a throttle installed. Pedal-assist only on a commuter bike that has performed great when warm


View attachment 364481

I have definitely noticed problems in the colder weather we've been having. My issue is similar but different. When starting or shifting gears (anytime the motor has to start spinning again basically) the motor will just spin up to max revs without driving the chain at all. I have to stop and try again a few times before it finally works properly. The colder the motor is the more it happens. After riding a bit and the motors heated up it doesn't happen at all. I'm guessing it's the same fault with both our motors except your motor partially/improperly engages and mine just doesn't engage at all.

 

[hindesite]

I have definitely noticed problems in the colder weather we've been having. My issue is similar but different. When starting or shifting gears (anytime the motor has to start spinning again basically) the motor will just spin up to max revs without driving the chain at all. I have to stop and try again a few times before it finally works properly. The colder the motor is the more it happens. After riding a bit and the motors heated up it doesn't happen at all. I'm guessing it's the same fault with both our motors except your motor partially/improperly engages and mine just doesn't engage at all.

I'm guessing here, but that sounds like it could be Spragg clutch related. I'm sure CYC would be very interested to know about this.

 

[rscamp]

I'm guessing here, but that sounds like it could be Spragg clutch related. I'm sure CYC would be very interested to know about this.

Could it be high lubricant viscosity causing sticking of the sprag elements at low temperature?

 

[SammySamm]

The diameter of my 38t chainwheel (295gr.) was 1mm to big to be pushed fully under the pivot bearing of my bike. I ordered a smaler 34t one and could place the motor without spacers full toward the BB.
The chainline is now 51mm (ideal for 148mm hub with 12s cassette).
However the smaler chainwheel is bulky and heavy (375gr.). It has a bashring to avoid the chain jump to outside but nothing stop it to the delicate inside.
Today i build an aluminium/teflon inside chainstop my self.

 

[hindesite]

Could it be high lubricant viscosity causing sticking of the sprag elements at low temperature?

I think that is likely, most common lubricant greases are OK down to about -20°C but might still cause issues in this particular application.

 

[hindesite]

The diameter of my 38t chainwheel (295gr.) was 1mm to big to be pushed fully under the pivot bearing of my bike. I ordered a smaler 34t one and could place the motor without spacers full toward the BB.
The chainline is now 51mm (ideal for 148mm hub with 12s cassette).
However the smaler chainwheel is bulky and heavy (375gr.). It has a bashring to avoid the chain jump to outside but nothing stop it to the delicate inside.
Today i build an aluminium/teflon inside chainstop my self.

That looks like the new 34T chainring. I posted a comment about my old 34T chainring way back when I built my bike - to summarize, the chainring I received looked as if it was prototype level quality and construction - it isn't great. There is an issue if the chain drops it can jam quite hard between the frame and the ring, looks like CYC could have done more to address that, although TBF, I think mine has only dropped once when re-installing the chain and it doesn't happen in normal use on my hardtail. Full suspension has a lot more going on.

 

[SammySamm]

I posted a comment about my old 34T chainring way back when I built my bike

Yes i have read all yor comments. You rexperiences have helped me a lot to build up my project .

 

[hindesite]

Could it be high lubricant viscosity causing sticking of the sprag elements at low temperature?

CYC make recommendations abut Spragg clutch lubricants:

https://www.cycmotor-support.com/knowledge/article/271

 

[rscamp]

CYC make recommendations abut Spragg clutch lubricants:

https://www.cycmotor-support.com/knowledge/article/271

 

[1nelife]

Agree, I had really tighten mine just to stop the sloppy 34t chainring from rattling around.

The "Retaining Lock Ring" on the left side is equally problematic. CYC say to "hand tighten". Whatever that is.

If you don't tighten enough by hand, the bearing has enough resistance (actually, it has a lot of resistance, seemingly caused by the plastic sleeve) that the shaft will spin inside the plastic sleeve. If this happens the bearing interface becomes the inside surface of the plastic sleeve against the shaft; the actual bearing is not spinning at all. Far from ideal.

If you over tighten the ring by hand, you will destroy the two end bearings by over-preloading them. Not great either.

View attachment 340162

I am also getting a slight clicking noise around chain ring when pedaling.

I cannot find "Wapous" original post below, anybody know if he was referring to tightening the chain ring? or the retaining lock ring? Since he mentions 40 to 50nm torque specs it sounds like he is referring to the chain ring torque spec.

Wapous said:
CYC told me not to overtighten the retaining ring.
But after 300km a slight clicking noise appeared.
I tightened the retaining ring and the noise disappeared.
It is difficult to ensure that the recommended force of 40 to 50 Nm is accurate.

 

[hindesite]

I am also getting a slight clicking noise around chain ring when pedaling.

I cannot find "Wapous" original post below, anybody know if he was referring to tightening the chain ring? or the retaining lock ring? Since he mentions 40 to 50nm torque specs it sounds like he is referring to the chain ring torque spec.

Wapous said:
CYC told me not to overtighten the retaining ring.
But after 300km a slight clicking noise appeared.
I tightened the retaining ring and the noise disappeared.
It is difficult to ensure that the recommended force of 40 to 50 Nm is accurate.

Hi, welcome to the forum. I'm certain Wapous was referring to the chainring, as you suggest.

 

[Jonna Till Pysslet]

I was thinking of posting this here but feel like it was best with a separate thread. Just FYI I made a thread with some information about CYC Photon 3D models and settings sheet if you want for your own projects

CYC Photon 3D models and settings sheet

Hi all! Have been working on this project last weeks and thought to share it if someone else is interested. CYC Photon complete motor assembly with brackets, spacers and crankshaft. Some other random 3D models related to that. Like a simple bash guard for the motor. Feel free to use for your...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Jonna Till Pysslet]

Could share a photo also. Have not tried it too much yet but it feels VERY different to the Bafang BBS02 I have been using a few years until recently. Suddenly you can't just pretend to pedal, I have forgot how it was to have a torque sensor but it feels fantastic. This will be soo great on the trails.

Salsa eFargo with 27.5x3" wheels, great allrounder:
/edit: project name was "Salsa El Fargo" can't decide which one is better

 

[Jonna Till Pysslet]

Have tried my Photon a little now. Fantastic motor. It is so smooth yet very powerful. And the torque sensing is fantastic. No problem doing wheelies like I use to do on my Bosch CX bike before.

Have one question about the programming though. Sometimes (mostly actually) it feels like the programming fails. This is regarding the "modes & levels" settings. If I change them (and click "save" (!)). It still does not change. It can be difficult to understand that nothing happened when I changed a setting if you make a not so big adjustment.

Maybe I can just save several times or something. But it feels like it really should work first time. Anyone else experiencing problems with this?

/edit: This was not really the case, I explain in new post...

 

[Jonna Till Pysslet]

...found the real problem. The problem is that Pedal assist and Throttle assist settings don't work like you think. They are related somehow.

If I set the Pedal assist to 300/550/750 W, and the throttle assist to 300/550/750 W,
then I get 300/550/750 W when I pedal.

BUT... if I set the throttle assist to something lower, then the pedal assist is affected as well!!

I thought I set the throttle assist to 150/150/150 and just have the throttle as "walk assist", in that case I would like the same power no matter what assist level I am currently using. But that did not work the pedal assist get's f'ed up I you set it like this. Don't know how to solve this

 

[biphaeboh]

...found the real problem. The problem is that Pedal assist and Throttle assist settings don't work like you think. They are related somehow.

If I set the Pedal assist to 300/550/750 W, and the throttle assist to 300/550/750 W,
then I get 300/550/750 W when I pedal.

BUT... if I set the throttle assist to something lower, then the pedal assist is affected as well!!

I thought I set the throttle assist to 150/150/150 and just have the throttle as "walk assist", in that case I would like the same power no matter what assist level I am currently using. But that did not work the pedal assist get's f'ed up I you set it like this. Don't know how to solve this

Have you tried the cyc photon facebook group? Somebody there might have an answer.

 

[hindesite]

...found the real problem. The problem is that Pedal assist and Throttle assist settings don't work like you think. They are related somehow.

If I set the Pedal assist to 300/550/750 W, and the throttle assist to 300/550/750 W,
then I get 300/550/750 W when I pedal.

BUT... if I set the throttle assist to something lower, then the pedal assist is affected as well!!

I thought I set the throttle assist to 150/150/150 and just have the throttle as "walk assist", in that case I would like the same power no matter what assist level I am currently using. But that did not work the pedal assist get's f'ed up I you set it like this. Don't know how to solve this

Do you think that if the throttle assist is lower than pedal assist in any setting, it overrides the pedal assist setting?

BTW don't forget walk assist is already built in though not great. Hold the down position on the rocker switch. Unfortunately is quite susceptible to any momentary breaks or bounces, CYC probably could filter those out in software.

 

[biphaeboh]

Do you think that if the throttle assist is lower than pedal assist in any setting, it overrides the pedal assist setting?

BTW don't forget walk assist is already built in though not great. Hold the down position on the rocker switch. Unfortunately is quite susceptible to any momentary breaks or bounces, CYC probably could filter those out in software.

Yeah, I don't like the walk assist. Weird and jerky.