Cyc x1 pro and stealth gen 3 announced

[Two4Seven SuprDan]

is it hard to believe that the people who are working dilligently to make these products better are actually here listening......... some of the great people in the industry are on this forum, and I'm not taking any sides but in my observation and experience, if you radiate negativity and expect positivity in return, that usually is not the case... i would be mad too, but i would take all the steps to make sure they honor my warranty if i paid my hard earned time and money making it happen. im going to paint my bike and post some build pics, have a blessed day and if i butted into something that was none of my direct business i apologize.

 

[E-HP]

BTW. Listen you idiot! I was willing to pay $150 (total) so I'm NOT TELLING THEM TO GIVE ME FREE CONTROLLER NOW so stop writing that I'm some another scammer! Even If I got X6 for free I would still have to pay DUTY (6%) and VAT (23%)! So it makes zero sense for me to scam them just to get some new shinny VESC based controller.

Do you even own first generation of STEALTH ?!

Did you read the warranty refund and return policy before the purchase? Sounds like a scam from the seller's perspective. You want 50% off of an upgrade controller because you claim yours is bad and don't want to allow inspection of the faulty unit per the policy. The policy actually states that the unit isn't deemed faulty until after that inspection, not on you claim.

It's obvious you are putting all of your import duty and shipping frustrations on the vendor who is following their written policy.

 

[mcfizzlestag]

Ok so... X1 Pro have better heat management and I believe it have a tougher sprag clutch too (280Nm max vs 150Nm)

It appears the stealth is not a good choice for hard riding off road bike

the part that wore out is not rated for 150Nm, if you look up the specs of the FE433Z2 Freewheel Clutch Insert Element, it is rated for a nominal torque of 56nm from most Chinese manufacturers, or 78 nm from GMN. Likely this is the intended point of failure. Dimensions of the clutch are 25x33x7mm. Here is a pic of it

I am curious, where did you purchase your stealth from? I purchased my Gen 2 X1 Pro from Golden Motor in September of 2022 and it came with a defective BAC 855 Controller. I tested it for a few weeks before I narrowed down the issue and then I had to send around 10 emails and wait three weeks to finally get a reply. They did send me an X6 controller under warranty; however, I did not receive it until January 31, 2023. I also sent an email to CYC on November 9, 2022, and they did not get back to me until January 16, 2023. That’s over 2 months’ time.
I am currently running into issues with the X6 controller and Golden Motor and CYC are not answering my technical support questions.
Please keep us posted on how long your warranty issue takes.

I ordered from golden motor. I've had great dealings with them in the past with a Magic Pie hub kit, and a lot of BBSHD parts i've purchased. Any issues i've had they jumped on rectifying it quickly. The issue here is its a new product, and they likely lack stock, spare parts of the internals, and the knowledge to help speed up the process. I emailed CYC directly first, they answered after a week saying they will forward my email to others who can help, then nothing, Its been almost a month since the first email to CYC. With golden motor, once i used their ticket system, they responded and asked i take photos to make sure we are speaking of the right parts, then silence. My guess is they are waiting for CYC to respond like i am. This part of the risk when buying something so new and why i replaced my BBSHD before it broke.

 

[Deleted member 82754 (removed by user request)]

I purchased my X1 Stealth (gen1) directly from CYC over a year ago and have about 1300mi (2092km). I had removed the controller from the motor and relocated to a dryer location on the bike. Must have been pretty hard ones as i have broken and bent the frame of my salsa rangefinder. I have since placed all parts on a full rigid Surly Krampus.
I have had zero issues with mine for the type of riding I do. Albeit, I am still running on factory parameters and do not feel the need for making all of the changes and tweaking that I read about from other postings.
I honestly do not believe the BAC855 controller is junk.

 

[Deleted member 82754 (removed by user request)]

the part that wore out is not rated for 150Nm, if you look up the specs of the FE433Z2 Freewheel Clutch Insert Element, it is rated for a nominal torque of 56nm from most Chinese manufacturers, or 78 nm from GMN. Likely this is the intended point of failure. Dimensions of the clutch are 25x33x7mm. Here is a pic of it
View attachment 331130View attachment 331131View attachment 331132


I ordered from golden motor. I've had great dealings with them in the past with a Magic Pie hub kit, and a lot of BBSHD parts i've purchased. Any issues i've had they jumped on rectifying it quickly. The issue here is its a new product, and they likely lack stock, spare parts of the internals, and the knowledge to help speed up the process. I emailed CYC directly first, they answered after a week saying they will forward my email to others who can help, then nothing, Its been almost a month since the first email to CYC. With golden motor, once i used their ticket system, they responded and asked i take photos to make sure we are speaking of the right parts, then silence. My guess is they are waiting for CYC to respond like i am. This part of the risk when buying something so new and why i replaced my BBSHD before it broke.

Yes, I saw this freewheel Insert when I did a teardown and clean up on my X1 Stealth gen1. I WAS REALLY AMAZED at how fragile it seemed. I almost broke it.

 

[Nomadstealth]

Yes, I saw this freewheel Insert when I did a teardown and clean up on my X1 Stealth gen1. I WAS REALLY AMAZED at how fragile it seemed. I almost broke it.

Does the freewheel clutch need to be rated to 150Nm ? I would have thought that the 150Nm is at the crank , not the Gearbox output shaft . There’s a big speed reduction between the two . I can’t imagine that CYC would use an under rated clutch .The weak point on my X1 Stealth was the 11 tooth Sprocket and the drive side bearing of the Bottom bracket . I’ve replaced the Bottom bracket bearing with an Enduro ABEC 5 and borrowed the 11 tooth sprocket from my Wife’s bike , all is good now . I’m waiting on the new Sprocket to arrive from CYC . And yeah , I’m going to make sure I remove the chain on a more regular basis to give it a good cleaning . I’m sure the sandy / dusty conditions I ride in played a big part in the Sprocket wear .

 

[mcfizzlestag]

They really don't have much choice on the clutch rating being less than the advertised rating. Even the best sourced clutch for those dimensions is well under 150 nm

 

[Nomadstealth]

They really don't have much choice on the clutch rating being less than the advertised rating. Even the best sourced clutch for those dimensions is well under 150 nm

The 150Nm is at the crank . With torque being inversely proportional to speed there'd be a lot less at the gearbox output shaft with the 11/53 or 11/63 ratio .

 

[Andrewol]

Besides many initial technical issues, there are still enough design flaws in Cyc X1 Pro motor kit. For instance stator lamination isolation and proper heat treatment issue, which causes rotor overheat, gearbox, freewheel bearings are available on chinese fake market only and are not produced by major brand manufacturers or way too expensive to replace with quality bearings which may equal the cost of the whole part itself, too low volume of gearbox compartment and its sealing issues which results in gearbox grease is pushed to adjacent compartments drying out gearbox compartment due to too much inside pressure at high rpm.

 

[mcfizzlestag]

I ended up retiring my stealth kit because it is unable to keep up with the wear and tear of a daily commuter even with running at reduced power.

Heres how's my commute been in 2023 on the CYC stealth...
1200km - Sprag slipping, motor power not engaging drive chain. (2 months out of commision)
3350km - Sprag + Gearbox. Measured the gearbox with digital calipers, found both the housing and shaft for the sprag clutch to be outside of the specified tolerance window according to various manufactures specs on the sprag. This causes early failure. (2 months out of commision, ordered several spare sprag clutches aswell)
5600km - Took off Gold chain to measure because the tensioner was almost bottoming out. Chain wear was well past repalcement point (replacement chain/chainbreaker ordered from a local GoKart supplier)
5700km - Cyc sprockets skipping and very worn, had to reverse 53T sprocket to get home and mount my BBSHD. WIll need new 219h Sprockets. Chains arrived 2 days later. Shelved, maybe one day will buy new sprockets as a backup backup kit. Ordered frame + m620.

Other issues i've noticed:

• Sealing is pretty bad, can't keep in Auto Transmission fluid, tried replacing all gaskets not much luck
• Several bolts have really soft heads and start to strip even at specified torque settings
• The gear box mounting bolts are horribly designed, they mount through the front cover, the gearbox, the motor stator, and thread into the motors very thin metal shell, one of the bolts do not have sufficient threads engaged to properly mount to specificied torque. Ordered new longer bolts and threaded the holes further to accomodate. Also bought helicoils as a just in case precaution.
• All these parts wedged together also have easily disloged gaskets between them.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I have the similar experience with my stealth gen1.

2000 km - Asi bac 855 broke just after 1 year warranty. I had to buy new x6 controller from cyc website.

3000 km - Torque sensor broke. I had to buy a new one from fasterbikes.eu

4000 km - chain broke. Stretched by about 1%

In order to replace chain I had to literally cut off cover with saw Because I could not unscrew screws due to worn out Tiny Hex sockets.

4200 km - Torque sensor broke again! Luckly I fasterbikes.eu gives 2 year warranty unlike cyc (1 year). I'm forced to use throttle for now

 

[mcfizzlestag]

I forgot to add:

• torque sensor no longer functioned correctly, would randomly function normally then suddenly activate full on for any rotation at all on the cranks. Would also cause the bike to jump forward for a moment when braking to a stop and letting off the brakes.

I replaced those shallower allen key bolts with stainless cap screws pretty early on because they were so prone to wear

 

[Fernicrack]

Why in earth, one would take one of these kits for daily commutation. Why not having a public transport instead ( ah you are American) so in this case, why not having a car or a fuel motorbike? Are we mean here? In Europe these bikes we use them for mountain originally, substituting fuel for parks…, I do not think non hub motors are for commuters….

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Why in earth, one would take one of these kits for daily commutation. Why not having a public transport instead ( ah you are American) so in this case, why not having a car or a fuel motorbike? Are we mean here? In Europe these bikes we use them for mountain originally, substituting fuel for parks…, I do not think non hub motors are for commuters….

You are right! I should have put this 1000 usd motor on the shelf as some kind of piece of art!
Fact is that CYC motors are overpriced piece of junk. My next motor will be Toseven DM02 and CYC goes to trash.

 

[mcfizzlestag]

Why in earth, one would take one of these kits for daily commutation. Why not having a public transport instead ( ah you are American) so in this case, why not having a car or a fuel motorbike? Are we mean here? In Europe these bikes we use them for mountain originally, substituting fuel for parks…, I do not think non hub motors are for commuters….

I only started bike riding because my bus times shifted and no longer was able to make it to work on time. I started with a hub motor, but they wouldn't work with where I live in Canada due to the Hilly terrain and wanting to stay street legal. Also the wheel weight plus being on the heavy side meant many snapped spokes. I replaced it with a bbshd and it served me very well, I was retiring it because it had over 65000 km on it so it would require a rebuild. CYC was new and shiny, looked refined and already at its third iteration, so I did what I normally do, aim for something over built for my intended use and run it at tamer settings to get more longevity out of it. It is not my fault they oversold the specs as if it was an AliExpress battery for sale.

I'm very surprised to see such an attitude on an EV forum against people actually using these products for every day use, especially with the premium price they ask for. This is my only vehicle, I use it in all weather, use it on nontechnical trails and road, and I live on a mountain that often gets transit service cancelled. If anything, I'm the type of person these companies should be using to test their motors before selling to customers. The only thing abnormal is I tend to clock in 1000+km per month on my ebike and I am 300lbs.

 

[Fernicrack]

“The only thing abnormal is I tend to clock in 1000+km per month on my ebike and I am 300lbs”. this is funny, thanks for the joke

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

The chain wear is really disappointing. Motorcycle chains can go 50k miles before needing replacements. You'd think the 216 chain would be able to take it, granted it is much smaller in length than a motorcycle chain so obviously more cycles per mile

 

[Bengy22]

I didn't really feel the need to make a new post so I will just leave this here: https://bicyclemotorworks.com/product/cyc-x1-pro-gen-4/

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

5000W? LOL! Rip chains and cassettes...

 

[Bengy22]

5000W? LOL! Rip chains and cassettes...

Nah just be smart with how you shift and it's fine, I run 4kw on my bbshd which also should have more torque and no problems. I know many people that run 5-6kw through a bbshd as well. Also the lower speed groupsets are best, thicker chains and cogs 8 speed ftw! It was posted on cyc official site today X1 Pro Gen 4 | cycmotor

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Somehow i managed to break main 219h kmc chain just after 4000km and with average pedal assist at 250W. With 5000W you will have to replace that chain just after 1000km. That chain stretches as well quite fast!

Also do not forget about that Tiny sprocket powering 219h chain.

 

[Bengy22]

Somehow i managed to break main 219h kmc chain just after 4000km and with average pedal assist at 250W. With 5000W you will have to replace that chain just after 1000km. That chain stretches as well quite fast!

Also do not forget about that Tiny sprocket powering 219h chain.

Guess it just depends, I get about 1250 miles on my chains before stretched. Some might consider that fast but $8 every 1250 miles is fine for me. Not sure about the 219 though

 

[manray]

I installed the original Stealth Aug/Sept 2022 with a new 52V Samsung 40T 8ah battery, new KMC X9 chain and 5 new individual 9 spd sprockets on a single speed rear hub and new shifter cables. To this day, nothing has been changed except the four M3x12mm bolts holding the chain guard. Bike is ridden in sun, rain and snow with temperatures down to minus 20 degress Celcius (-4 fahrenheit). I use this bike for commuting (grocery run, shopping, local touring (50 kms max) etc..). I don't have the throttle connected (I don't even know if it works) and only use Pedal Assist (@ 500 watts max) which gets me between 35 to 50 kms (22 to 31 mph) per charge. Almost 19 months and the motor runs fine however the ASI controller has given me some issues (more below). The only regular maintenance I do is clean and oil the chain (once every 3 weeks max). I've cleaned the cassette cogs about a dozen times in total. Last week I finally took apart the Stealth chainrings because the road grim and hair stuck to the chain rings was unbearable. Kerosene and an old toothbrush got the shit off. Was surprised to see the teeth on both chainrings still useable (no shark tooth); only the black paint wore off. The KMC chain stretched (12 1/16") but I'll use it until the end of Spring. The rear cogs looked good (5 speed results in very good chainline). I don't mash like I used to when I was into mountain biking (i.e. slamming into gears, shifting late) preferring to spin at a higher cadence. I'm sure the longevity of my drivetrain is a result of higher cadence and easing off when changing gears (habit from riding Rohloff hub).

As for the ASI BAC800 controller, for the last 9 months, I haven't been able to select the power level when I start my ride (0,1,2,3). When I turn on the Stealth, it displays power level 0 but in use has power level 3. Running through the power level settings changes nothing. It's actually been more convenient this way so I haven't had the urge to resolve the problem. I did contact CYC last summer and was given a reset code but after resetting the ASI controller twice, nothing changed. Again, I power up the display and it shows power level 0 but the motor functions with power level 3.

One other thing I should mention. Since installing this motor, the muscle behind my right glute (piriformis muscle) has been in pain. Not so much pain to stop me me from being active but the muscle hurts. I massage it with a tennis ball every now and then but should seek out a professional. I have done self supported bicycle tours in South America (Argentina to Colombia), Europe (Germany to Gibraltar) and Africa (Ethiopia to South Africa) and never had this pain. From a bit of online research, high q-factor is a cause for this muscle syndrome. The Stealth has a q-factor of 189 mm. My touring bike has a q-factor of 169 mm. Road bike doubles have a q-factor of 150 mm.

19 months and 5957 kms (3700 miles) and counting....

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I installed the original Stealth Aug/Sept 2022 with a new 52V Samsung 40T 8ah battery, new KMC X9 chain and 5 new individual 9 spd sprockets on a single speed rear hub and new shifter cables. To this day, nothing has been changed except the four M3x12mm bolts holding the chain guard. Bike is ridden in sun, rain and snow with temperatures down to minus 20 degress Celcius (-4 fahrenheit). I use this bike for commuting (grocery run, shopping, local touring (50 kms max) etc..). I don't have the throttle connected (I don't even know if it works) and only use Pedal Assist (@ 500 watts max) which gets me between 35 to 50 kms (22 to 31 mph) per charge. Almost 19 months and the motor runs fine however the ASI controller has given me some issues (more below). The only regular maintenance I do is clean and oil the chain (once every 3 weeks max). I've cleaned the cassette cogs about a dozen times in total. Last week I finally took apart the Stealth chainrings because the road grim and hair stuck to the chain rings was unbearable. Kerosene and an old toothbrush got the shit off. Was surprised to see the teeth on both chainrings still useable (no shark tooth); only the black paint wore off. The KMC chain stretched (12 1/16") but I'll use it until the end of Spring. The rear cogs looked good (5 speed results in very good chainline). I don't mash like I used to when I was into mountain biking (i.e. slamming into gears, shifting late) preferring to spin at a higher cadence. I'm sure the longevity of my drivetrain is a result of higher cadence and easing off when changing gears (habit from riding Rohloff hub).

As for the ASI BAC800 controller, for the last 9 months, I haven't been able to select the power level when I start my ride (0,1,2,3). When I turn on the Stealth, it displays power level 0 but in use has power level 3. Running through the power level settings changes nothing. It's actually been more convenient this way so I haven't had the urge to resolve the problem. I did contact CYC last summer and was given a reset code but after resetting the ASI controller twice, nothing changed. Again, I power up the display and it shows power level 0 but the motor functions with power level 3.

One other thing I should mention. Since installing this motor, the muscle behind my right glute (piriformis muscle) has been in pain. Not so much pain to stop me me from being active but the muscle hurts. I massage it with a tennis ball every now and then but should seek out a professional. I have done self supported bicycle tours in South America (Argentina to Colombia), Europe (Germany to Gibraltar) and Africa (Ethiopia to South Africa) and never had this pain. From a bit of online research, high q-factor is a cause for this muscle syndrome. The Stealth has a q-factor of 189 mm. My touring bike has a q-factor of 169 mm. Road bike doubles have a q-factor of 150 mm.

19 months and 5957 kms (3700 miles) and counting....

I had the same problem from the very begining. I got a new configuration file which fixed that issues

Btw. After riding in snow storm my freewheel stuck.