nonlineartom
1 kW
I've got a 48V Cyclone kit on order but only have a 36V battery to hand until funds allow, will the controller behave itself at 36V or am I screwed?
Cyclone controller 48V 36V compatible?
- Thread starter nonlineartom
- Start date
boostjuice
10 kW
LVC will cause the controller to shut down based on a threshold voltage of a near depleted 48V Pb-Acid battery.
So, when using a 36V battery, lower states of charge will likely trigger LVC well before total battery pack capacity depletion.
The LVC circuitry is in the throttle, not in the controller. The 3-LED 'fuel gauge' circuitry in the throttle also pulls the e-brake line down to OV when battery voltage is below a threshold (~30V from memory for '48v' throttles). You could snip the e-brake wire in the throttle lead and this will stop the incorrect LVC kicking in with your 36V battery (no issue if you have a LVC BMS or keep a watchful eye on a Cycle Analyst). Alternatively you could order another throttle calibrated for 36V batteries.
This lot sells them separately
http://eclipsebikes.com/throttles-throttles-c-55_3.html
So, when using a 36V battery, lower states of charge will likely trigger LVC well before total battery pack capacity depletion.
The LVC circuitry is in the throttle, not in the controller. The 3-LED 'fuel gauge' circuitry in the throttle also pulls the e-brake line down to OV when battery voltage is below a threshold (~30V from memory for '48v' throttles). You could snip the e-brake wire in the throttle lead and this will stop the incorrect LVC kicking in with your 36V battery (no issue if you have a LVC BMS or keep a watchful eye on a Cycle Analyst). Alternatively you could order another throttle calibrated for 36V batteries.
This lot sells them separately
http://eclipsebikes.com/throttles-throttles-c-55_3.html
nonlineartom
1 kW
Thanks for an informative reply, my battery has a BMS, when the battery has cut out in the past I've presumed it was the BMS kicking out I didn't know there was a LVC in the controller. I have a spare generic thumb throttle with LED's knocking around, are all throttles created equal?
boostjuice
10 kW
nonlineartom said:
Your LED 'fuel gauge' should be colored red prior to throttle LVC kicking in. Is this correct?
nonlineartom said:
As far as i can tell, all of the cheap Chinese throttles don't incorporate any LVC like the seemingly unique 'ORO' branded Cyclone version. Instead LVC measurement of the battery pack voltage is usually done inside the controller for the common mainland China Xiechang/Infineon type controllers.
In your case, Its easiest just to snip the ebrake wire on your Cyclone throttle wire inside the controller. Each wire is exposed where it goes into a header connector on the board. Its the third wire from the left of the header you want to snip (with the FETs at the top of the board for orientation). I just confirmed this with a multimeter BTW.
nonlineartom
1 kW
ok I think I'm with you, how will cutting the ebrake cable disable to LVC though? and if the LVC is disabled, won't the controller presume it's 0V and cutoff by default?
as I say I have a generic chinese thumb throttle, one cable for the throttle one cable for the LED's, can I just patch this into the cyclones controller port to avoid any modification to the controller itself?
as I say I have a generic chinese thumb throttle, one cable for the throttle one cable for the LED's, can I just patch this into the cyclones controller port to avoid any modification to the controller itself?
boostjuice
10 kW
No. The ebrake line is normally held/pulled up to a logic level high (~+5V). When the ebrake line is activated it pulls/forces this down to a logic level low (~0V). By snipping the wire, this can no longer happen when the throttle circuitry triggers LVC, so its essentially just bypassed.nonlineartom said:
nonlineartom said:
You could do that if your happy to snip the Cyclone/'ORO' throttle cable off so that you retain a length of the cable bundle upward of the external interface plug with which to solder your Chinese throttle wires too. However doing this will be more work than just snipping one wire inside the controller (easily made reversible by a quick solder-up for when you get your 48V battery).
nonlineartom
1 kW
Thanks again for the advice, I'm only reluctant to modify the inside of the controller because I want to keep the warranty intact as I've heard cyclone controller can pop sometimes and I want the least hassle possible if that's the case. Could I potentially strip the insulation on the controller wire and cut the green wire there? I have brake switches on my handlebars from an old system so I could patch it in right? Or is this job more fiddly than I can imagine?
boostjuice
10 kW
nonlineartom said:
Yeah you can do that. I only suggested snipping it inside the controller because its easier/neater.
Ok, I assumed you didn't have - or want - to use ebrakes (personally i don't see the point unless your using regen, which you cant on a cyclone kit because of freewheel isolation, and i don't think the controllers are designed to take it anyway). If you want to retain the use of these ebrake handlebars for safety reasons, then yes, all you have to do is cut the throttle-ebrake-wire upstream of where you splice the ebrake-handlebar-wires into the loom. Easily done at the one junction.
PS: don't rely on the wiring loom colours, always check the pin position, and with a multimeter if possible. For my own Controller/throttle pair the pin referenced wiring colours change completely inside the outer black insulation of the controller-side connector cable.
nonlineartom
1 kW
Lovely, I'll do that, if I screw it up at least I can source a new throttle easily. Thanks muchly for the help. I've never used the brake switches before they are just there from a previous installation sitting unused. I might run that cable to an ignition switch just for added safety. I've nearly injured myself several times putting the bike away in the garage and accidentally twisting the throttle.
Spacey
100 kW
blast from the past lol
Sorry to bring up this old topic, but I was wondering if I could run the 36v Cyclone controller on 48v if the LVC is in the throttle and not the controller?
Sorry to bring up this old topic, but I was wondering if I could run the 36v Cyclone controller on 48v if the LVC is in the throttle and not the controller?
I seem to have a similar problem..
I have manage to to connect my 72v hua tong controller to my cyclone 960w motor. I connected the ORO twist throttle, and using a 36v battery.
The fuel lights are green indicating full charge, but twist the throttle and I get nothing????
could someone please help me get this bike on the road ready for the summer?
Thanks
ps what is LVC? what colour wire would that be?
I have manage to to connect my 72v hua tong controller to my cyclone 960w motor. I connected the ORO twist throttle, and using a 36v battery.
The fuel lights are green indicating full charge, but twist the throttle and I get nothing????
could someone please help me get this bike on the road ready for the summer?
Thanks
ps what is LVC? what colour wire would that be?
Spacey
100 kW
Your 72v controller will be expecting 72v and not 36v, it thinks the battery is dead.
nonlineartom
1 kW
The LVC is the low voltage cutoff, the Hua Tong controller is pre-set for 72V and has a hard wired low voltage cut off of around 55V (I think) which is the lowest point an SLA battery has any charge left. Running a 36V pack you are below the LVC threshold of the controller. The LED battery meter on the ORO controller is only really useful for SLA batteries as any other chemistries like LiFePo4 don't progressivly lose voltage over the discharge cycle.
nonlineartom
1 kW
Spacey said:
In theory, it depends, are you using the headline controller? I'm not sure if you can because certain components will not want to go up to 50V+ that your pack is giving it, I remember my old 36V no name controller couldn't take 48V so I wouldn't try it without getting confirmation from someone who's tried it. A decent 4110 infineon controller will work nicely over a wide voltage range with the cyclone
Spacey
100 kW
You're probably right,I think I'll leave it. The Cyclone should pull a lot better with the new A123 36v Pack that I got from Cellman. It's replacing a mates Ping 36v 15Ah pack that was left on a few too many times and went empty.
nonlineartom
1 kW
leaving it on shouldn't kill the battery? you tried reading the cell voltages bypassing the BMS of the pack? perhaps try trickling the cells back to life? Might be able to raise it from the grave. Cell_man makes good packs. You need to get yourself someline like a Lyen Mini-Monster 6 or 9 fet controller for the cyclone. Tiny compared to the headlines
Spacey
100 kW
This bike was a friend of mines, he would leave it on for a week at a time because he kept forgetting. I got bored of stripping the pack and charging the cells one at a time....the pack is now officially crap lol.
The Ping pack was over 2 years old and had also been drawing nearly 30A from a 36v 15Ah pack.
The Ping pack was over 2 years old and had also been drawing nearly 30A from a 36v 15Ah pack.
nonlineartom
1 kW
Lucky the guy wasn't using LiPo or he probably wouldn't have a house / garage anymore. Is the pack beyond saving now? I could just use a tired 36V Ping for a secondary pottering around bike.
Spacey
100 kW
Completely buggered, but I do have 2 x 12S5P 36v 11.5Ah (43.8v) Cellman battery packs left over from a batch of builds I have done.
Would be happy to let you have them cost price, in UK (Wiltshire) with all customs and vat already sorted.
Would be happy to let you have them cost price, in UK (Wiltshire) with all customs and vat already sorted.
Of course I should have known that. But someone here suggested I by the Hua Tong 72v controller for my Cyclone kit.
I have a 36v lipo battery and i also have an 48v. My Cyclone is rated at 600 - 960 watts. Which controller should I buy? that is compatible with the kit and the ORO twist throttle?and faster the better I say...
Can someone please send me a link, Plenty on Ebay , but which one? I'm London UK..
Thank you all very much..
I have a 36v lipo battery and i also have an 48v. My Cyclone is rated at 600 - 960 watts. Which controller should I buy? that is compatible with the kit and the ORO twist throttle?and faster the better I say...
Can someone please send me a link, Plenty on Ebay , but which one? I'm London UK..
Thank you all very much..
i don't encourage anyone to try 72volt controller hua tong for cyclone motor. This cyclone motor is good for 48v controller 2000watts huatong. 18fets. from my watup meter i can always read out it draw 2200watts + from my wats up meter.
the cyclone motor can be easily wire out , phase wires 3 + hall wires 5 . change the thin wiring to a correct colour. i have been using this hua tong controller 48v 2200watts max, or 42amps+ for quite some times. Well, if you want to run this cyclone motor with a 36v battery is also fine, as long you have a 36v controller , i think huatong 36v will work with that too. i have tested the 60v controller 1800watts with hua tong, the speed is too fast and easy reach 55km/h. i fear this will hurt the cyclone motor for a long lasting use. so i stick with 48v controller, hua tong + cyclone motor
as for the 60v controller 1800watts, i match this with a another hub motor 48v 1000watts. it has good speed on flat i run 55km/h, or max speed is 60km/h.
kent
the cyclone motor can be easily wire out , phase wires 3 + hall wires 5 . change the thin wiring to a correct colour. i have been using this hua tong controller 48v 2200watts max, or 42amps+ for quite some times. Well, if you want to run this cyclone motor with a 36v battery is also fine, as long you have a 36v controller , i think huatong 36v will work with that too. i have tested the 60v controller 1800watts with hua tong, the speed is too fast and easy reach 55km/h. i fear this will hurt the cyclone motor for a long lasting use. so i stick with 48v controller, hua tong + cyclone motor
as for the 60v controller 1800watts, i match this with a another hub motor 48v 1000watts. it has good speed on flat i run 55km/h, or max speed is 60km/h.
kent
search for Greentimes controller from aliexpress.com. he has a good name in selling the controllers. i bought one from him and ship to my door steps in 7days later. im going to run 48v. as for your 36v is easy to upgrade to a 48v by adding afew more lipos cells, that is what i will do for my 60v battery. 48v lifepo4 and 2 cells of lipo will run a 60v controller huatong. i had purposely purchase a green time controller to find out real time test result.
the cyclone throttle, has 3 important wires to be connect to connect to green time controller. the ORO throttle you choose 3 wires, red 5v, gnd is white , and signal wire is Yellow. And as for the Black wire in ORO is not in used. so i say is better for you to buy one more throttle either is thumb or a full twist throttle, they will have a correct colour to the controller.
green time controller was surprised work smooth on sensor mode best, and sensorless mode is fine but abit rough at test. it is very fast quick swaping the hall wires and you will find the right combination very soon, just 2 or 3. and i test it run so smoothly, and i trust this controller will give you a good reliablity.
ORO throttle => green time controller.
white wire => Black wire
Yellow wire = > green wire
Red wire = > red wire
i hope you don't get confused with the cyclone colour code and the standard colour code. it can be confusing also for the motor colour code. luckily this green time controller will get you real fast search for the best combination. as for huatong controller you got to really sit down and do a full 36 combination test. it will works, so far is so good.
ken
the cyclone throttle, has 3 important wires to be connect to connect to green time controller. the ORO throttle you choose 3 wires, red 5v, gnd is white , and signal wire is Yellow. And as for the Black wire in ORO is not in used. so i say is better for you to buy one more throttle either is thumb or a full twist throttle, they will have a correct colour to the controller.
green time controller was surprised work smooth on sensor mode best, and sensorless mode is fine but abit rough at test. it is very fast quick swaping the hall wires and you will find the right combination very soon, just 2 or 3. and i test it run so smoothly, and i trust this controller will give you a good reliablity.
ORO throttle => green time controller.
white wire => Black wire
Yellow wire = > green wire
Red wire = > red wire
i hope you don't get confused with the cyclone colour code and the standard colour code. it can be confusing also for the motor colour code. luckily this green time controller will get you real fast search for the best combination. as for huatong controller you got to really sit down and do a full 36 combination test. it will works, so far is so good.
ken
