spinningmagnets
100 TW
Veloman, could you post a close-up pick of the aluminum bar that the front of the shock is attached to? Looks to be a very nice solution...
"Da bomb" cargo bike + Transmag 3kW / MAC 2kW / HS3548
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
I've very very strongly considered dogman style. Even picked up 2 frames for the task. I've posted pics around here.
The challenge is to get a steel walmart dual suspension bike PLUS a steel hardtail frame of the same metal ( mild steel, no doubt ). That can be hard to do especially if you like your hardtail frames extra large like me.
Maybe a mechanical linkage could work well, i dunno. I worry about flex when the bike starts gettin' real long, ya know? your idea, veloman, is appealing, but i wonder how well it holds up.
Another problem is that those dual frame bikes can get really really long. As you see earlier in this thread, i tried to mate 2 frames up, and damn.. it was longer than 'da bomb!' screw that..
Maybe the bottom bracket on the dual suspension frame could be mounted further inward in the hardtail bike, to shorten up the entire bike a few inches?
You'd have to make a custom plate to do that, but it wouldn't be too hard.
The challenge is to get a steel walmart dual suspension bike PLUS a steel hardtail frame of the same metal ( mild steel, no doubt ). That can be hard to do especially if you like your hardtail frames extra large like me.
Maybe a mechanical linkage could work well, i dunno. I worry about flex when the bike starts gettin' real long, ya know? your idea, veloman, is appealing, but i wonder how well it holds up.
Another problem is that those dual frame bikes can get really really long. As you see earlier in this thread, i tried to mate 2 frames up, and damn.. it was longer than 'da bomb!' screw that..
Maybe the bottom bracket on the dual suspension frame could be mounted further inward in the hardtail bike, to shorten up the entire bike a few inches?
You'd have to make a custom plate to do that, but it wouldn't be too hard.
Yeah I saw one of your thread about crashed. Bummer I preferred 20 or 24 size wheels and I always pay attention on the road all the time. That's why I almost never crash.
I sold my racing superbike Suzuki GSXR750R long time ago and I had 4th times gas slappers. Frick it almost crash, I always attempt 90 degree before across the tracks. Never had any problem. Speaking of lot experience being encountered the danger that might lead accident.
At least you learned and next time attempt 90 degree before across the track.
Looking forward see your next project.
I sold my racing superbike Suzuki GSXR750R long time ago and I had 4th times gas slappers. Frick it almost crash, I always attempt 90 degree before across the tracks. Never had any problem. Speaking of lot experience being encountered the danger that might lead accident.
At least you learned and next time attempt 90 degree before across the track.
Looking forward see your next project.
Hey Chroot; what's a gas slapper? I have never ridden a motorcycle in my life, but i'm curious !
It's the big 26" wheel that got caught in the train track though, surely not the 3 pound 20" tire out back I really think that i just need to be higher off the ground. My bike was set up to be so low that 145mm pedals would scrape around turns. Great for handling, but not so good for seeing bad things like this ahead.
If i go down that road again, to cross the tracks, i would have to get off my bike and walk it through the dirt, as it's a fairly busy road with cars driving through it. I just won't bother with that road anymore.
It's the big 26" wheel that got caught in the train track though, surely not the 3 pound 20" tire out back
I really think that i just need to be higher off the ground. My bike was set up to be so low that 145mm pedals would scrape around turns. Great for handling, but not so good for seeing bad things like this ahead.If i go down that road again, to cross the tracks, i would have to get off my bike and walk it through the dirt, as it's a fairly busy road with cars driving through it. I just won't bother with that road anymore.
Be exact called tank slapper, the front wheel gets lose traction and it goes wild fight between rubber traction and fiction (spell?).
Screwed couldn't get proper URL link anyways just go on YouTube and put "tank slapper" and press search.
So you will get idea no time
Screwed couldn't get proper URL link anyways just go on YouTube and put "tank slapper" and press search.
So you will get idea no time
Man i believe you that this bike is behaving better from you trek.The thing i suggested is a general rule for long and heavy bikes.
Even if i like your build more i believe that dogman is doing it better.I don't want to imply anything negative here just telling you what i believe.
Gl with the planning man i know you will manage to overcame all issues
Even if i like your build more i believe that dogman is doing it better.I don't want to imply anything negative here just telling you what i believe.
Gl with the planning man i know you will manage to overcame all issues
OK chroot, i read about tank slappers, that sound scary as hell.
I'm still a little petrified to ride fast again :lol:
Well i've tried to sell this frame.... i had two guys lined up to do some chromoly welding on it to shorten it down, one is not answering my phone calls, the other realized that he can't weld chromoly... so it's just been sitting in my garage looking miserable. This is holding me up from putting a suspension fork on it, raising it a little so that i can hopefully see more road hazards in advance, and so forth.
In the meantime, i have revisited the franken bike idea yet again.
When the vbrake posts are removed, i know that there are decently sized bolt holes which can help form a structural link, conveniently all it would take is a bar with a 90 degree angle, plus a fat axle to make that linkage happen up top.
I have the cranks pointing towards the dropouts, as if they were to actually be bolted into the dropouts, but one thing i could do is point them downwards, cut about 80% of them off, and hook up to the lower chainstay, bolting it in maybe, or maybe using a pair of something that would clamp / bolt to them 2x on both sides.
No suspension this way, so that sucks. But i'm really not sure how a midtail could be done otherwise.
Maybe a shorter rear swingarm designed for a 24" wheel could be helpful here?
I'm still a little petrified to ride fast again :lol:
Well i've tried to sell this frame.... i had two guys lined up to do some chromoly welding on it to shorten it down, one is not answering my phone calls, the other realized that he can't weld chromoly... so it's just been sitting in my garage looking miserable. This is holding me up from putting a suspension fork on it, raising it a little so that i can hopefully see more road hazards in advance, and so forth.
In the meantime, i have revisited the franken bike idea yet again.
When the vbrake posts are removed, i know that there are decently sized bolt holes which can help form a structural link, conveniently all it would take is a bar with a 90 degree angle, plus a fat axle to make that linkage happen up top.
I have the cranks pointing towards the dropouts, as if they were to actually be bolted into the dropouts, but one thing i could do is point them downwards, cut about 80% of them off, and hook up to the lower chainstay, bolting it in maybe, or maybe using a pair of something that would clamp / bolt to them 2x on both sides.
No suspension this way, so that sucks. But i'm really not sure how a midtail could be done otherwise.
Maybe a shorter rear swingarm designed for a 24" wheel could be helpful here?
jkbrigman
10 kW
neptronix said:
Almost like a dual suspension Electra Townie?
So you wanted similar cruiser bike Electra Townie frame, Okay...... Why not just get what you like mid size frame then install FS fork and add Thudbuster seatpost or Brooks saddle like B190, B67 or so. It will give you very comfortable!
Nicole's Electra Townie looks awesome. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23701
Are you looking bigger motor 150mm dropout on Electra Townie and why not just custom dropout and you could sell these componets to someone that might want same build as yours similar Kiwi's kickass dropout for Gaint DH comp and torque arms plate for Yuba Mundo.
Or you could get in touch with custom builders that makes frames such Choppers for less cost and maybe they willing build you a killer Electra Townie or Aussie AJ's frickin beauty chopper with the 150mm dropout to allow you run cromotor or bigger motor.
Just thought and throw you some of ideas.
Nicole's Electra Townie looks awesome. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23701
Are you looking bigger motor 150mm dropout on Electra Townie and why not just custom dropout and you could sell these componets to someone that might want same build as yours similar Kiwi's kickass dropout for Gaint DH comp and torque arms plate for Yuba Mundo.
Or you could get in touch with custom builders that makes frames such Choppers for less cost and maybe they willing build you a killer Electra Townie or Aussie AJ's frickin beauty chopper with the 150mm dropout to allow you run cromotor or bigger motor.
Just thought and throw you some of ideas.
jkbrigman said:
spinningmagnets
100 TW
IMHO, just under the front of the shock is the best place to put a mid-drive motor, it can be a left-side-drive to the rear wheel/BB-drive/right-side parallel/serial drive to the rear. And...that leaves the frame triangle (and just below the down-tube) free to carry as much battery as you can afford.
I dismantled my longtail full-suspension when I moved. Also, since I got a job much farther away, I have stopped commuting to work on a bike (and I never E-biked in the winter under any conditions, I'm old and wimpy). That being said, full-suspension on fat tires is sweet for a commuter. The longtail gave me a lower seating position so my feet were flat on the ground, and also the upright posture with semi-recumbent pedaling for my legs was AWEsome! I highly recommend it. The longer wheelbase added high-speed stability, if that interests anyone...
If I ever get some time after completing my current projects, I want to make a semi-recumbent full-sus mid-tail with a 20-inch rear tire covered by a dogman-style cargo rack
I dismantled my longtail full-suspension when I moved. Also, since I got a job much farther away, I have stopped commuting to work on a bike (and I never E-biked in the winter under any conditions, I'm old and wimpy). That being said, full-suspension on fat tires is sweet for a commuter. The longtail gave me a lower seating position so my feet were flat on the ground, and also the upright posture with semi-recumbent pedaling for my legs was AWEsome! I highly recommend it. The longer wheelbase added high-speed stability, if that interests anyone...
If I ever get some time after completing my current projects, I want to make a semi-recumbent full-sus mid-tail with a 20-inch rear tire covered by a dogman-style cargo rack
jkbrigman
10 kW
chroot said:
I like this, I like this. It seems we're homing in on a kind of "ideal bike" that has:
- mid-tail characteristics. Shorter than a long-tail cargo bike but longer than your average unpowered bike.
- it has a rear rack, but it's a big, beefy rear rack that laughs at panniers. You can carry cargo, a person or a ton of LiPo.
- recumbent characteristics. At the very least, a crank-forward profile, but preferably with your butt as low to the rear axle as possible
- solid enough dropouts for a hubmotor but with plenty of opportunity for a mid-drive
- either a cushy hardtail or dual-suspension.
- three speed capability: "legal", "boosted legal" and "no one's watching so punch it"
What I'm imagining here is, say, an Electra Townie with an extra-long Farfle swingarm and steel tubing welded to the top that functions as a rack. Rear wheel is 20" with a fat 2" tire and the front is a 24" or 26" with a 2" tire.
Compared to the Edgerunner that ebikes.ca is selling, the frame's about a foot shorter, the top tube sits higher (giving a much larger triangle) and the seat tube is slightly more angled to the rear. Like cutting out that space between the seat tube and the rear wheel on the Edgerunner.
Chalo
100 TW
jkbrigman said:
Recumbent and semi-recumbent layout work against the first two criteria. Feet-forward rider position takes up a lot of space in the bike, using room that could be used for cargo or a passenger, and enlarging the overall size and weight of the bike without increasing its capabilities at all.
In fact, 'bent layout harms handling, maneuverability, stability, and tolerance of different surface conditions. As you progress from normal bikes to cruisers, to flat-foot bikes like the Townie, to true semi-recumbents like the Rans Fusion, to full recumbents, they get progressively more ungainly and debilitated. While the same could be said for cargo bikes as they grow in capacity, at least in the case of cargo bikes you gain load capacity in return for the tradeoff. On a 'bent all you get is a hokey chair you wouldn't even sit on if you had one at home.
jkbrigman
10 kW
Chalo said:
LMFAO Chalo you are a hoot man. I wish you could ride the Phat Bike.
OK, so forget the word "recumbent": we'll stop at "flat foot". I was trying to use it as an adjective, not a noun.
A big, giant beast of an ebike. Still very pedal-able with battery weight down low near the crank, but something so big that no one would trifle with it, or you on it. Forks on the front so big they could handle a 29'er front with a 2" Schwalbe on it.
I'm conflicted about the rear tire. The 20" with a 2" tire on it (even a moped tire) seems to be a killer combo with an HS motor. But I like tire symmetry so I'd probably go for a 29'er on the back.
If I were fabbing up the bike, it'd copy the main triangle of the big Electra Townie 21 with a bigger version of the Farfle rear suspension. Disc brakes, 29er wheels. Big steel rack welded to the top of the swingarm (or to the frame if a hardtail). The bike doesn't try to attach the rack to the main triangle - instead, it admits who and what it is and welds that rack to the top of the swingarm, using it as a stiffening reinforcement, a cargo carrying area and even a potential passenger seat. The swingarm is kind-of a second thought here, with the assumption that in "switch position 3", the bike could achieve 50mph. If you're building it for 30-35mph, then a swingarm seems optional to me, but I don't feel it would be a waste...
neptronix, chime in here and tell me if we're homing in on what you envisioned. This is absolutely the direction one goes with the Electra Townie or the Specialized Expedition Sport. What I envision would come with a trailer hitch, be made of all steel and be able to carry enough LiPo to laugh at a 100 mile ride. Fenders, huge beefy rear rack, disc brakes, 53T up front and a 8 or 9 speed rear.
Yes, I'll say it: The Jennifer Lopez of bikes.
JKB
Rule #76; if Chalo is heavily opposed to it, it's probably a good idea... 8) 
Rule #89; if you find that a certain design characteristic is pleasurable or desirable, and Chalo comes in and tells you it isn't, then you can be sure you are on to something :lol:
Anyway, my experiences in bumpy-road-istan are telling me that 20 inch wheels - while they are great as you can fit a super fat cushy moped tire, and run super high power levels on hub motors - are not the best wheel for where i live. I get to cross over railroads very often. That bump on the front 26" wheel sucks, but the 20" sucks worse. On the 'da bomb', my body weight is almost right in the middle of the bike, so i can certainly tell the two apart.
So yeah, let's rule that one out right now.
Can't say i am a fan of the townie. It's got a strange front "triangle" to it and puts almost all your weight over the rear tire, which means you don't miss out on the full impact of whatever hits that wheel. You've got something good going on with your specialized expedition - that's more along the lines of being sort of a midtail.
I think you've got the right idea though. A bike with a big Jennifer Lopez butt, so that you can stick panniers behind the seat, but not directly over the rear wheel, as you would with a rear rack on a standard bike. This puts more weight in front of the wheel and helps you out with the whole wheelie problem at higher power levels, plus the weight is more neutral..
Gotta have the big front triangle too for battery storage..
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48663
On that note, have you seen my post about the genesis 32" wheel bike? this thing comes very close to being ideal. With a 52 inch wheelbase, it really IS a midtail.
Rule #89; if you find that a certain design characteristic is pleasurable or desirable, and Chalo comes in and tells you it isn't, then you can be sure you are on to something :lol:
Anyway, my experiences in bumpy-road-istan are telling me that 20 inch wheels - while they are great as you can fit a super fat cushy moped tire, and run super high power levels on hub motors - are not the best wheel for where i live. I get to cross over railroads very often. That bump on the front 26" wheel sucks, but the 20" sucks worse. On the 'da bomb', my body weight is almost right in the middle of the bike, so i can certainly tell the two apart.
So yeah, let's rule that one out right now.
Can't say i am a fan of the townie. It's got a strange front "triangle" to it and puts almost all your weight over the rear tire, which means you don't miss out on the full impact of whatever hits that wheel. You've got something good going on with your specialized expedition - that's more along the lines of being sort of a midtail.
I think you've got the right idea though. A bike with a big Jennifer Lopez butt, so that you can stick panniers behind the seat, but not directly over the rear wheel, as you would with a rear rack on a standard bike. This puts more weight in front of the wheel and helps you out with the whole wheelie problem at higher power levels, plus the weight is more neutral..
Gotta have the big front triangle too for battery storage..
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48663
On that note, have you seen my post about the genesis 32" wheel bike? this thing comes very close to being ideal. With a 52 inch wheelbase, it really IS a midtail.
Honey, i shrunk the bike!!
Am i totally happy with it.. hmm, i think so! The crap part here is that the dude who welded it didn't cap off the tubes, so i have a tube at the top and the bottom that are open.. this is not good for the strength of the bike. My welder guy is not a structural engineer tho..
So i am going to get the ends capped off and the build will restart :]
Oh and the wheelbase is now 52 inches. This matches the genesis 32" bike. I rode the Genesis 32" bike and like it a lot. The way it handles is right in between the buslike feel of the 'da bomb' or a Yuba Mundo at full length, and the twitchyness of a mountain bike. I have a feeling this bike will handle the same.
Am i totally happy with it.. hmm, i think so! The crap part here is that the dude who welded it didn't cap off the tubes, so i have a tube at the top and the bottom that are open.. this is not good for the strength of the bike. My welder guy is not a structural engineer tho..
So i am going to get the ends capped off and the build will restart :]
Oh and the wheelbase is now 52 inches. This matches the genesis 32" bike. I rode the Genesis 32" bike and like it a lot. The way it handles is right in between the buslike feel of the 'da bomb' or a Yuba Mundo at full length, and the twitchyness of a mountain bike. I have a feeling this bike will handle the same.
jkbrigman
10 kW
Holy Carp: TWO builds going on, both with never-done-before frames. Science!
OK, so this bike is waiting on a little additional welding.
For a little extra confidence, i want the now exposed tubes capped off. I want a plate added right behind the seat for a lil' extra strength, and to help balance the panniers. This job should get done by an experienced TIG welder on monday.
As for the motor, i have a better chain drive scheme this time around. I am going to use this bike as a platform to play with the transmagnetics 3kw rated motor.
For a little extra confidence, i want the now exposed tubes capped off. I want a plate added right behind the seat for a lil' extra strength, and to help balance the panniers. This job should get done by an experienced TIG welder on monday.
As for the motor, i have a better chain drive scheme this time around. I am going to use this bike as a platform to play with the transmagnetics 3kw rated motor.
Chalo
100 TW
neptronix said:
Are you talking about the vertical rectangular tubes or something else? Those don't seem particularly structural, with or without end caps. I'm sure they contribute to the bracing, but everything else in the truss is conspiring to load them in compression or tension, and not torsion which capping them would be most effective at resisting. Are you going to mount anything to those verticals?
If you get them capped, be sure they can drain if water gets in somehow. They'll need a vent hole for welding, so that can do double duty if appropriately placed.
