Deecanios first build the "DC1"

[deecanio]

hey maytag,

thanks for helping
on 20m setting i get ....

controller black to phases = 1) 6.02 2)7.14 3)7.34 ?
controller red to phases = 1)6.8 2)6.8 3)7.2 ?

Controller hi current phase wires (blu,grn,yel) any combination = if the meter is set to 20m i get this "1 . " in the display? i change to 200m and i get 1.2 for all.

Controller case (endplate screws) to hi current wires = no resistance
i get the 20m reading of "1 . " and on 200m setting i get a reading of 15.0 for all 3 ?

not really sure what that tells us but heres hoping someone knows
hopefully a new controller will arrive soon and i can try some modular repair it should at least give a better place to look if it doesnt run with a new controller.

thanks for the help with this fellas im open to any more things to try if only to learn.

cheers

D

 

[knoxie]

Hi Mate

Right it looks like the controller is ok although the reading of 15M on the case screws is indicative of a small leakage through those pesky washers I am afraid, however the controller fets are not damaged it looks like.

Right as fechter said a nice easy test to make sure the actual motor is ok unplug the motor phase wires, then connect the meter inbetween the phases coming from the motor, set your meter to 20M and test inbetween all possible connections, if any of them do not read zeros you have a broken wire inside the motor lid. The good news is its a nice easy fix as I have already described.

I have yet another variant of the Puma to try, this one is different than the BMX and the 26 Inch Puma! ha ha, it seems ok, is nice and clean inside and runs very quiet, will be hooking it up to the Trek tomorrow night and testing it out.

Mark will send you a new controller if it is faulty but I am thinking it may not be other than the switch is sticking on, I am thinking the motor may have had one of the solder joints go.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[knoxie]

Right I can see you did that motor test from your photos, make sure you also test blue to green on the motor as well you should see zeros again. when you set your DVM to any range on ohms a reading of all zeros or at least a few ohms indicates a short, sometimes you will read a slight resistance because of the leads and sockets on DVM meters wear a little and corrode a bit so can sometimes show a few ohms even when you hold the probes together, this doesnt matter too much for this check.

P

 

[fechter]

It looks like all the FETs are intact. That's a good sign.

There's no failures in the FET insulators. That's good too.

When testing the motor phase wires, you need to put the meter on the lowest ohm scale. Test the leads by shorting them and see what the reading is. You can subtract the resistance reading of the leads from whatever you measure on the motor. On the high scale you used, it indicates none of the motor wires broke off. Good sign.

So what the hell is wrong with that one?

Next test would be to put the meter on volts and measure the hall wires.
You could also measure the throttle wires. Both of these tests should be done with the meter negative probe connected to the battery negative.

You should also try unplugging the switch connector from the board and see if the LED goes out.

 

[Ypedal]

Is it remotely possible that the gears are bound up in the motor ?

I would suspect that any throttle in this situation would show a big amp drain on the DB ? no ?

Does the ON/OFF red button with light.. work at all at this point ?

 

[deecanio]

hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, i will try the other tests when i get home again - although i will need to read it a few more times
I really think the controller is at fault - if there's no difference on the db when im pressing the on/off button doesnt that indicate that the controller is not using any power? - the light being on all the time it has power is a red herring maybe as it has been running in this condition previously.
Im waiting to hear from mark to see if he has sent me a new controller out today - i dont want to crack open the controller if he's replacing it for me but on the other hand i don't want to wait around if he's not, to be fair i don't even know if the controller is faulty so if mark sends me another to test then kudo to him for looking after me!!
I'll post later and let you guys know what i find - i'll test on and see if we can find the fault - i'm curious - is there any way to connect up and measure if the controller is sending power down the phases?
my measurements came out pretty similair to maytags new controller so im a little confused as to why ihave this problem.
Anyway thanks again guys for helping me out - ill try any test that you all post and see if we can figure it out!!!

Cheers all


D

 

[Ypedal]

The DB will light up even with the controller not conected ( try it ! ) ..

The red button on/off not turning the red light on/off is not normal however..

All the metering tests outlined above is very interesting for me as well.. so Fethcer and Paul.. this is very useful info for all to read.. might want to add this to the Crystalyte Post on the tech side.. !!thanks !

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes these are basic tests, I have had great help from Richard and then forged ahead for long nights testing and diagnosing these things, I know that board intimately! ha ha better than the missus! he he but I think we are breaking the back on some of the controllers weak points and maybe we can all get a bullet proof unit, I am not scared of fixing the controller it just takes time and a steady hand, I would be scared to tackle any of this If I couldn't fix the controllers if they blew, Mark would not have any controllers left for his kits! ha ha.

This is partly why I want DC to make 100% sure the controller is faulty before a new one goes off, as if there is something wrong wiring wise it will mean another controller failure and more work for me, so if we can diagnose this one first it will be helpful, I think between me and Richard a video would be the coolest thing, he can make a section on some of the tests and I will add some bits and bobs and edit it all up, I think it would be useful.

My modified controller seems to be good now on the Puma, I will push it harder in the coming weeks, sounds like Maytags is looking rosy which is very good news.

Knoxie

 

[fechter]

Yes, I'm planning on adding a troubleshooting guide to my Crystalyte controller thread. Stupid day job has been keeping me too busy lately.

Dc- I doubt your controller is sending any power to the phase wires or you'd see it at least jump a bit.

One other thought about the stuck on light:
The purple wire that goes to the throttle can also supply power to the regulator. Perhaps there's a mismatch somewhere in the throttle connector?

If you could measure the throttle wire voltages, it would tell us whether or not the voltage regulator had any output.

The red hall sensor wire would be another important one to measure (power on, no throttle).

 

[deecanio]

Hi Fechter,

Yes i thought that power was stopping at the controller - it's really dificult to troubleshoot when i don't have much knowledge - i know how knoxie feels as i have to troubleshoot all my freinds and families pc's and it's seriously frustrating!!!
Mark has posted me out a new controller today and paul is going to let me call him on sunday for some over the phone testing!! he's a top fella that knoxie you know!!!!
I will post up what we find over the weekend as this does seem a different problem than the current spate of fet failures.
Big thank you fechter and guys for trying to help me with this, i'm sure come monday i will be functional again!!! hurray!!!
I'm going to the national bike show here in the UK tomorrow so i will post up some shots of all the ebikes there (if any) and also my selection of bikes for the dc2 project :lol:
Hope you all have a great weekend and those with working rides get out in the sunshine and show us some vids....im talking to you maytag!!!!lol you too ypedal - show me the norco!!!!!!!
Once again thanks to you all for helping - we shall overcome!!!


cheers


D

 

[deecanio]

Hi All,

Got a new controller through the post on saturday , the bike show was a real let down, so much so that i didn't think it worth while to take any shots - a real stinker of a gig grrrr i could have been at home fixing my bike for 2 rides on sunday instead of the 1
anyway bad show out the way,got to have a look at my bike and test out a few things (thanks knox) on sunday morning and eventually i swapped out the controller to find all was well again , powered up and no light on the controller until i pressed the "on" button and voila!! quick blip of the throttle and away she went
Whilst on a fresh battery i did the flat road speed test....17mph - maytag you were spot on with your estimation, although a slow top speed it gets there very impressively and if that torque is doubled at 72v? and top speed is 30mph + that'll sure be plenty for me im positive.
i went out with the frame taped batt ( i still think it seems less powerful than the 1st batt ?) - 41.5v at the start i rode for 13 miles on 9.45ah, very little peddling,just at starting and i didn't let it bog either - i didn't want it to break again, i was just remembering how much fun it is to ride!
What can i say about the puma? again a great ride, pulled like a terrier :lol:
i took it into the forest again and up down up down - i was slightly less harsh, in regard to terrain, than my last ride but i didn't spare the whip on the throttle much with no sign of warmth in the controller or battery at any point in the ride.
I ended up finding (by getting lost) a great piece of singletrack that i hadnt ridden before so i gave the puma a good wide open throttle and thrashed along as quick as the bike would take me, i wish i'd taken the camera (need to find a safe mounting method) it was a real rush,lol
this motor really does seem perfect for my bike and it shoves me round the forest really well even if i venture off track it whips me over the forest floor debris no problemo lol sticks and gravel ping off the bike but she keeps on going at it.
i did mount the controller better this time as you can see in the pic - i didn't want this one going up the wall too so i mounted the right way up and added some antishock rubber mounting (make that i chopped up an old mouse mate and used self sticking rubber tape to hold it in position).
we'll see how this goes - it certainly seems a better setup and if we find my controller failed due to vibration rather than electrical failure i'll leave it there.
I do worry my bike is getting uglier lol, once i get the second lipo mounted i will have the full picture - i'm at the stage now where cosmetics are taking a back seat to reliability so lets get her working at 72v then i'll see what i can do for a face lift

As ever thanks guys for all the help,i'm back riding again and loving it 8)


Cheers


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi D

I was wondering how you had been getting on, sounds like its working great!! thats good news, you must have got the pins sorted in the hall connector as well which is also good news.

Drop that controller back to me as agreed and I will repair it, I think I will just go ahead and order the fets for it and upgrade it to 150V after I have fixed the on / off button problem. I will do my 72V tests using NIMH batteries as I dont want to risk blowing the BMS on the batteries again, If it works ok for a month at 72V then I will swap to lipo with no concerns.

If you can strap that other pack to your bike you will have 20AH, better cycle life and loads of fun!! its is a lot of fun, I will do a video tomorrow of my trip to the shops, its a laugh and the bank I hit at about 25mph at the end of the lane I almost take off coming out of it! I must do a film of that.

The new Puma is ok, its not as fast as yours but is fine and very torquey 24mph top speed at 48V, I am going to run it like this for a month or so and in tandem run the other one on the 26 Inch Raleigh, I also want to go out on the KMX and the BMX as well!! ha ha I need more time well I am off work tomorrow so thats good and the forecast is sunshine.

Look after your controller and be kind to the bike, I should have the controller upgrade to 150V in time before this one smokes (Only joking!!)

Have fun and nice speaking with you today, also had a 3 hour chat with Steve Head today which was great, time for bed.

Knoxie

 

[maytag]

Great, we're like a Puma tag-team. It's like clockwork, I break down then you step up to the plate, you break down then I step in with my running setup. Then I get crazy and break mine down again now youre stepping in to keep the Puma progress going. Unlike me I'm sure you'll listen to Knoxie and keep her at 37v till he says she's good and ready. Keep on riding and dont forget to take a break from all the fun to post updates. :wink:

 

[deecanio]

Hey guys,

yeh need to post a little earlier than 1am, lol that said knoxie posted after me so you must have had a late one mate?
it was a little late in the day to get over to your thread maytag, been meaning to get over there and offer my condolances on the controller front dude, what are you like? lol, hats off to ya for going balls out on the first day but i was kinda hoping that you'd get some good mileage under your belt to see if the fet mod worked out ok first - ya just couldn't shake that little bugger off your shoulder eh? :lol: hopefully you are going the whole hog now and replacing the fets? your damn right bro on the following knoxies advice route though 36 for me until i get the word from our knox.
Tag team indeed mate, im up and running again and as you can see from my previous post still loving that gutsy little puma, man i had a good blast yesterday, i must get a camera - looking at helmtcam.com later!!!
Isn't it always the way that now i'm running again i may need to take the bike off the road again as i need to get some work done on my battery mounting idea - i'm really envious of you guys that have space and tools to do your own stuff.I need to get both batts mounted and then i will go paralell to give me a really good ride time (im guessing 2 hours is possible) hopefully will help with the voltage sag too - 20ah should be good for 25 miles + 8)
Knoxie,
i posted the controller to you this morning - i sent it special delivery as recorded doesn't cover it's value, it should be with you pre 1pm tomorrow.
You'll notice a couple of things when you get it - firstly its got a few digs on the edges (i got it like this) and secondly the label is coming off (i pulled it off as i didnt see any need to advertise what the magic box is
i was ging to put on my e thirteen sticker just so we know who's it is lmao im not sure if you have to send it on to mark once repaired ? i'll have to argue with him over that one as i'm just dying here to try 72v!!
Mark will have the final say i guess as he was good enough to get me a replacement one out, however i am considering just buying it from him and having two on hand just in case - nothing worse than looking at my bike all charged up and nowhere to go hope your enjoying your day off, swine!! let me know if you want a FET contribution mate, im quite happy to help out any way i can to move on the puma cause!!!

I'm not sure when i'll get out next, this week sometime but i'll definately take the camera, maybe i'll get my girl to come along and film although she is reluctant after i let her ride my bike yesterday,lol she can't get used to the full grip and throttles while braking - when she did get going i could see he grinning as she came up the hill - by the way can you guys give me the best suggestion for a prebuilt ebike for my gal? how is the IZIP ??????

Keep on keeping on Y'all



Cheers


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi M8

Had a great day off today, took the KMX out for another spin and did a cool little video will edit it up and post it later got some good footage.

Then I took the new Puma out to Stratford Upon Avon, a 43 mile round trip, it worked like a charm as there is a monster hill half way its 20% or so, it charged up there at 15mph using 1300 watts! and this is the weak Puma! ha ha so its working great.

Only used 8AH as well!! properly peddling and I had a mental tail wind on the way out and was doing 25mph with no motor! ha ha brilliant, I am a proper power assister It doesnt seem natural to not peddle.

Im back in work tomorrow sadly, suppose I have to pay my mortgage somehow :lol: the modelling work is drying up these days :lol:

Ill strip down the controller tomorrow and have a look at it to see what gives, ill then order up the fets and get it modified.

Glad your ride is back up and running, have fun the weather is amazing and yes please get some video would love to see some.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

hey mate,

Day off? you lucky bugger - weather is going to be fantastic all week, i feel a sickness coming on
just going to take a quick peak at the kmx vid, sounds like it was a lot of fun - by the way what was the software you use for editing your vids?im going to try and take the camera next time out (thurs prob too much footie on at the mo) so i need to get rid of the dull and post the good.
The controller should be with you by now? so i'm really interested to see what went wrong? i have a feeling that i bashed the life out of it as i really did ride it hard and it wasn't mounted as well as it is now.
Let us know what you find mate and in the meantime ill get my batts mounted right so i can go for longer rides and then double the power when the time comes!!!
Hope the modelling work picks up ;p

Cheers


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi Mate

Yes I like a bit of footie myself and will at least be watching the game tonight, no worries on the bike, I split the controller at dinnertime! see how keen I am! well first thing those pesky tubes were leaking all over the place, I read albeit a high impedance on each fet! yes every single one was conducting. I checked the hall sensor cable and that seems to be ok so Marks part of the wiring seems fine.

No fets have blown so I suspect the problem Iies with the gates mis firing, I know have the board hanging in free air, I will rig it up on my test rig after the footie, I am pretty sure that it will work ok then without the heatsink attached. The Off/On switch is knackered so I will replace that, I mean it will still work ok but you wouldn't have been able to turn it off.

Ill then order up the 150V fets and do the mod, should be solid then.


Knoxie

8)

 

[deecanio]

yikes!!
controller hanging mid air?
oh i see, the fets are shorting on the case itself? damn those crappy mountings - i dare say it was the monster rough ride that did it?
Your a star mate - i will try to learn how the controllers function for my own piece of mind but i will have to start with basics
I'm real lucky to have you guys helping me out.
So we will have to wait for the states to ship over some fets before surgery can commence - i'll crack on with my mounts then and carry on running at 36v
i really wish i had charged my bike last night as i could have gone out this evening before the game - still im just happy that im running again with the real possibility of 72v not too far away!!!
Knoxie you da bomb mate!!!


cheers

D

 

[knoxie]

Da Bomb! prob not the best analogy considering I may try running the Puma at 72V this week :lol: :lol:

I think I may just go ahead and try it, its done 60 miles or so and the other Puma seems strong at 48V on my std controller, however I want to try and find a way to rig up 72V but not using Lipo, I can get 48V from my NIMH, I may go for it and just make sure the second chain lipo (the one with the 72V out going) is the one with the removable BMS, infact If I use both Lipos that have removable BMS boards its a lot better, I am pretty sure it is going to be ok though, I think its worth a try.

I need to get a rack to get the lipos packed on to as I agree even for testing it is a little unsafe to have 72V of lipo bolted on your back, so they are going to sit on the bike from now on.

The weather is so nice makes riding in the woods so nice as its not muddy, I should make the most of these evenings myself, I will rig the BMX up soon soften the tyres and take that for a spin in the woods, I can mount the lipo on my top peak rack, should spread the weight and let me rag it about for a bit of fun, maybe another video! ha ha you try stopping me.

Its addictive all this stuff mate, you will be like me in time!! I have been fascinated by electric vehicles for about 30 years! scary eh!! saw an article in the mid 70s on Blue Peter about these people making electric bar stools! and racing them!! I was so captured by that and an electric gokart we made at school when I was about 13! can you believe that about 10 years ago I actually bought an old starter motor thinking I could put it on my bike

:lol:

Later, get out in those woods tomorrow before the football, going to test your controller tonight on the rig, I bet a pound to a pinch that it works now its not connected to the heatsink.

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

Hi knoxie,

yeh get the lipo on the bike mate, just in case - i have nearly flipped the bike a couple of times now just on 36v - it's easy to get carried away especially in the woods,just a small bump and throttle can see the wheel lift
at least if you do come off the back you wont have the batts waiting to dig you hard in the back area, very dangerous.
maybe you should ask around see if anyone will loan you some batts for the 72v test ;P save your lipo's.I cant wait to try 72v 36 makes me smile but im sure 72 will bring pant wetting speed and acceleration :lol:

already thinking about sneaking a ride in tomorrow, just finished charging again - i may have to swap the other batt in as this one is getting more charges lol - i think i figured out why it seems less pokey than the first batt, i think.When i connected up after charge to test the wheel came to a halt a bit too quick, think i need to adjust the rear brake again as it's normally such a sweet freewheel i must have a rub.

keep me posted on the testing mate - oh watched the kmx vid, very nice, great choice of music again,i ended up missing seein muse at V festival as it was 90 degrees and i didn't take a cap doh!! bald head and lots of hot sun = me puking with sunstroke an hour before muse played

i'll see if i can lash a camera or at least get some stills whilst im out in the forest - i love to get a clip of the trails, the ride is good at 36v but to rush these trails at 72 is going to be simply awesome!!


Cheers knoxie,


D

 

[knoxie]

Ok Man

Its late again and I have school tomorrow :lol: but yes no probs, your controller has tested out 100% ok on the board, no blown components, all fets are in good shape, all leads make it to and from the plugs with no short circuits, didnt get around to the full rig test will do that tomorrow, it will work for sure, I may tap mark up for a 37V NIMH battery so I can run 61V, or I may just risk it, anyways have to get a rack and some panniers for those pricey batts first, will pop in to town ans get something sorted.

Catch you later, thanks for the video comments, Muse are great never seen them live either!! I have seen Nirvana though !!

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

Hi Mate,

i haven't had chance to get out on the bike lately at all - watched both games and had a lot of duties on
might get chance to get out tonight for a quick spin - i need to adjust the rear brake and give her a once over before i do but im hoping to sneak off early so i can get all that done and be out on the bike by 6
i'll take my gals sony cam as it does do video and see if i can get any footage of the trails - maybe ill try steve heads method for filming as i dont think the mrs'll be too pleased if i bounce her cam all over the forest ;p
hows the testing coming? have you managed to up the voltage yet?
im looking forward to seeing the bmx in the woods - that should be a great ride


cheers


D

 

[deecanio]

hey all,

out again tonight with the taped on battery - from now on refered to as "the strap on" in order to embarass myself into actually do some work on the battery mounting situation.
I've been thinking about it some though and i'm begining to get an idea of what i want and how to do it with a reasonable finish, but i dont have hacked paint photos to show you......yet.
The ride tonight was good,i went out a little late and just got the last hour of daylight,the bike performed well again but i still cant shake the feeling the first battery seemed better, still i will change them over as part of the mounting so i can balance the number of charges they are getting each, then i'll know for sure.
I rode 11miles on 9.22ah ,no pedaling at all, before the bike cut out - im guessing that i dont get over 10ah used (first batt run 10.79 first ride) as the bike cuts due to voltage sag? i saw 34v lowest though? im not really sure i just know its time to head home, i'm getting better at guessing when my times up though as i was only 20 meters from home lol. 8)
I'm not going to bleat on about the puma again - wait, yes i am.
good,good,good always game up any hill even at 36v ( yes it bogs but only on the steepist hills and dont forget this isnt smooth tarmac im talking woodland uphill) - top speed on flat after 10mile run was 17mph its all good so far, i must say that im feeling very close to achieving my goal of a fast forest bike capable of covering any trail i could with the original bike - not too shabby, especially on 20" wheels - i haven't caught my pedals once yet and the clearence is great, it's quite a thrill to be zooming along and give the bars a tug over the peak of a bump to find the front stays up as i open the throttle full lol
I did say i felt very close to my goal, but im not there yet and here's why, although the bike is very enjoyable to ride, it's top end just falls short of where i expect things to get interesting, it pulls like a champ and just as i start thinking wa-hey and im at top speed - its true that in some parts of the forest the top end isn't an issue as theres enough dips and turns to ensure that i dont reach 17mph but in other areas i find im full throttle and needing more almost all the time lmao.thats not to disrespect 36v but i've always known i must have more power - (scottish accent) "i need more power captain!!!"
I'm hoping that the double power will take me to where i need to be - 25mph is a must and 30mph will be superb - it's gotta be 72v !!!
i'm not sure what difference it will make to the torque and acceleration but i'm hoping for an increase there too? Once knoxie has given me the nod i'm straight on it chaps, the dc1 has always been geared for 72v and i cannot wait to try that!!!
So i must crack on and get this idea into picture form - i will post up soon as i can illustrate properly what i want to do -even if it gets the thumbs down from you guys half of the idea is usable in another config anyway so please feel free to shoot down/agree.
i do need a camera - the family snapper isn't up to the smashing i'd give it so if anyone knows a good sports cam, must be small, and bike strapable,let me know - i must ask devin what his films are made with? i did see a few good ones on helmetcam.com but if you guys know proven cams please let me know.


Cheers All



D

 

[knoxie]

Hi Mate

Glad you are getting out and putting some miles on the bike, I know what you mean about more power though!! and I also know what you mean about that initial surge as well, the new Puma on my Trek does that its mental, it tops out at 25mph which is fine for commuting, it has got some superb low down power though awesome!

I see from Fechters thread he is also fitting 150V fets in that mod as well, good move I think, the Puma is testing well on 37V, I will let you know when I do the 72V test, I am loathed to try it at the moment as if it fails I will be a bike down this side of Prestigne (if I decide to go) so dont want to mess about incase I go to the rally, if the weather forecast is bad I wont bother fair weather rider :lol:

The BMX at 72V is so good even at 25mph you could knock your head back by opening the throttle suddenly, it was amazing!! Just another 12V would make a good difference to the bike though you could safely try that if you wanted, I would use 2 x cheapo lead acid batteries in paralell as most wont hack 35A for very long, thats safe on the Puma as I have been running that for a week with no problems at all, it would have blown by now.

That would give you 49V, you can pick up a couple of cheap ones from Maplin or break open an old UPS, 12V 12Ah, wire them in paralell and then put them in series with the battery on the frame, I run my bike like this for quite a while until I knew it worked then put the rack on.

72V will put the lights on for ya, you have seen the BMX video havent ya, the BMX motor is still a little more powerful than what you have on your bike, I need to get the new torque arm made for that the other one is shagged it has opened it up, a good visible example of just how much you need a torque arm unless you want the same to happen to your drop outs.

Ill drop one of the Puma torque arms around to my friend today and get him to make some front and rear ones for me. I would love my own CNC machine!!

I can post some video of the Puma at 72V to give you an idea your Puma i took some footage before it died on me, well it didnt die those pesky poor solder joints inside the motor came undone.

Have a good weekend, its a little cold here, was hoping to get a morning run out on the KMX, looking a little too chilly still may have to venture out for a laugh, its a great way to start the day!! ha ha

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

Hi All,

weather has been bad this weekend so not much riding - however did get some video at 36v lol, its no knoxie production but it does show the various terrain i like to ride, let me know if you cant see it as it's my first video post
i must emphasise that it was very boggy, i hadn't been expecting it to be that bad, its a real shame as there are some places in the video where i get stuck due to very slippery roots/puddles etc where normally i help out with the pedals and the puma does the rest - there isn't a hill you see here the puma wont attack (the nasty uphill root sticking out all over place hill at the 2:00 marker included)!!!, i'll do the same run when its dry again to prove it
i will try again to film when it's dry and will move the camera to me as on the bars it flicks and wobbles a lot as i continuosly adjust the bars to stay on lol.
i was after an ebike that would tackle this terrain and i really think once i get 72v and final fixings sorted for the second battery and seat change that this bike will do very very nicely
im just waiting for youtube to do whatever they do then i'll post the link 8)

anyone else been out??? got vids?? lol


D