Link
1 MW
kbarrett said:
Whut? How did you come to that conclusion? :?
Denver commuter e-bike
- Thread starter Toshi
- Start date
Whut? How did you come to that conclusion? :?
kbarrett
10 kW
Link said:
My clyte 405, with a crystalyte 36v-72v v2 controller, and a stock clyte throttle only gives me on and off.
if I am doing something wrong, let me know.
Brushed motors are somewhat different from hall-effects. Clyte 40x's are straight hall-effect brushless motors. To get a variable speed 40x, you have to buy one with multi-windings, like a 407/4011 dual speed.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Somthin aint right. :?
lazarus2405
10 kW
Unless you meen "speed" as in something closer to "gearing" than "velocity"...
Because if your throttle is acting like an on/off switch, with one power output... sounds like you have a bad throttle.
Because if your throttle is acting like an on/off switch, with one power output... sounds like you have a bad throttle.
ngocthach1130
1 kW
kbarrett said:
Yeah you're definitely doing something wrong buddy. It's a throttle for a reason. Your throttle might be broken that hall sensor inside are giving full output or no output.
Edit: Also multi speed 4 series motor doesn't mean it travel at different speed. It mean the motor contain 2 different set of winding. One with less winds for higher speed and less torque while the other with more winding for less speed and more torque. They only control the speed limit not the intermediate speed. So with the throttle you should be able to vary your speed from zero up to that limit. If all this time you've been using your motor on either off or max then there must be massive wear and tear on your motor.
Link
1 MW
I'll fourth the "WTF?" notion. The whole point of a controller and throttle is so that you can get speeds other than "off" and "ZOMG!"
:?
:?
Toshi
10 kW
Toshi said:What bikes fit or approximate the above criteria?
[...]
Novara (REI) Transfer, $599 (and wouldn't need anything whatsoever! indeed I could sell the dynamo front hub and light setup to recoup some of the cost!)
An update: I test rode the Novara Transfer a day or three ago, and it was quite satisfactory. My impressions:
- the 15" floor model was too small for me (duh)
- gear range on the 7-speed Nexus hub was acceptable
- overall gearing was great for pedaling. May be too short with assist.
- solid construction. Nice eyelets for the rack, etc.
- the geared hub feels different from derailleurs (again, duh). In particular there's more slack when engaging the freewheel after coasting. Also, if you shift under too much load the hub won't skip or complain, but also won't engage the new gear until you ease
- the stock stem and handlebars are weird and gross
- the front wheel, hub generator, and light setup should be worth $150 at least at msrp, if such interested buyers exist
Overall I like it. I think it'll work: I'd swap the bars for the Protapers in my garage, eBay the front wheel and light, move the one shifter to the left to allow for the right twist throttle, and put the electric gear on.
The best news: REI's annual sale starts May 2 according to the shop guy. Bikes will be 15% off...
kbarrett
10 kW
Toshi
10 kW
Toshi said:
An update:
1) the electric gear from ebikes.ca has shipped! (as has the rack trunk, which is not as exciting)
2) the upcoming REI Anniversary Sale that runs May 2-May 11 is even better than I thought.
As quoted above I relayed incorrect info from a shop rat that said 15% off, but according to a second-hand flyer (via http://hiking.meetup.com/7/boards/thread/4586096) the sale is 20% off any one item for members. That'd make the Novara Transfer all of $480 for the math-challenged <-- unlikely in a community based around V = IR, but who knows.
$480 for a new bike with an internally geared 7-speed hub, full fenders, a sturdy rack, acceptable components, and even an integrated dynamo hub/wheel and front light that I could theoretically sell is really difficult to beat.
lazarus2405
10 kW
Nice. Keep us updated.
Toshi
10 kW
The convoluted regulations of the REI Anniversary Sale meant 15% off after all. (There was also a 20% off one-item coupon, but with a no-bikes stipulation. Agh.)
So in any case I now have a platform on order, a Novara Transfer for $509. Still not shabby.
And the C-lyte bits are trickling in. No sign of the box containing the battery and charger yet, but the other items arrived. I'm giddy. 8)
Finally, for good measure, a photo of my road bike as it stands in its current commuter-bike role:
One can tell just from that photo that I like a different riding position than many here... just say no to gel seats, high-friction tires, and high handlebars!
So in any case I now have a platform on order, a Novara Transfer for $509. Still not shabby.
And the C-lyte bits are trickling in. No sign of the box containing the battery and charger yet, but the other items arrived. I'm giddy. 8)
Finally, for good measure, a photo of my road bike as it stands in its current commuter-bike role:
One can tell just from that photo that I like a different riding position than many here... just say no to gel seats, high-friction tires, and high handlebars!
lazarus2405
10 kW
All a matter of goals. In fact, you yet may find that comfort is one of your goals. :wink:
What did you decide for carrying the battery?
Toshi
10 kW
lazarus2405 said:
I find that position and seat style to be more comfortable than the alternatives! It balances weight between the hands and the rump, and doesn't chafe or move around in unpleasant ways.
The Transfer has a nice, sturdy (non-seatpost! down with full-suspension bikes
) rear rack upon which I'll stick a rack trunk. I haven't quite decided where the controller should live given that everything will more or less need to be in plastic bags due to the rain situation around these parts...
lazarus2405
10 kW
non-seatpost! down with full-suspension bikes
Now, that's an awful attitude. Unsuspended, hardtail, and full-suspension bikes all have their uses in different situations. Universally decrying one category without respect to the situation and requirements doesn't help anyone. :wink:
That said... I readily agree that most seatpost racks are awful, terrible contraptions, yet a necessary evil. Non-seatpost trunk racks that are mountable on full-suspension bikes add unsprung weight, and most full-suspension geometries do not have a front triangle usable for batteries.
Toshi
10 kW
I used to ride and race downhill bikes - my last rig had 175 mm up front and 200 mm in back. Thus I see how off-road e-bikes such as the Jackal (not a bike since no pedals? hmm) could benefit from suspension. However, I really don't see how 80 mm of poor quality suspension travel is worth the many tradeoffs for street use, with the rack issue significant among them.
For that matter, I don't see why street bound machines need an array of half a dozen lights, riser bars, bar ends, a cycle computer, a bell, a thicket of wiring, and perhaps a few multimeters taped up there for good measure... Maybe you're right, and my views will change, but I hope not to that degree!
For that matter, I don't see why street bound machines need an array of half a dozen lights, riser bars, bar ends, a cycle computer, a bell, a thicket of wiring, and perhaps a few multimeters taped up there for good measure... Maybe you're right, and my views will change, but I hope not to that degree!
lazarus2405
10 kW
The short answer is potholes. And,their effects on the human coccyx and wrists! Many folk don't have the benefit of smooth bike paths and well-maintained bike lanes.The cheap suspensions are good enough to smooth out the ride over these bumps to make the ride much more comfortable for those who spend 97% of the time riding with their rears planted firmly in the (gel) saddle. The trade-offs then are very much worth it.
You have to understand that these are folks who would rather change their bikes to suit their riding style than change their riding style to better suit the riding conditions. The more power to them, since they're generally very happy with the results.
I, for one, have made the transition to a quality suspension, not because the S25 was bad, but because it was not good enough for the speeds I wanted to run. Being able to mix it up offroad is an unexpected benefit (though one I haven't exercised electrified. Weight distribution is all wrong for any trails).
...You must have been looking at Xyster's build.
If not, then go take a gander. 
But, anyway, let me try to explain some of the quirks. My aim is not to change your view, but to explain that each has a very reasonable explanation which makes perfect sense for those who make such design choices.
For the lights, a number of us enjoy riding at night, and not simply for commuting. Going faster than a normal bike requires more lighting, to be visible and to provide comfortable visibility. We tend to use arrays because we like to do it ourselves as opposed to just buying a $300 HID lamp. Half a dozen high-output LEDs can do the trick nicely. 8)
As for the bars, that's personal preference, though I have considered adding triathlon bars (which might save 1-2kw in the 50mph range!). The bell is useful for those who deal with pedestrians not sharing shared paths. For some of us, a horn is more appropriate.
The thicket of wiring, however, is completely optional. I think we'll all agree that the less visible wiring, the better, though some care more than others.The simple answer to all the computers and meters is that we just love information. We want to know all about how our bikes are performing. You've just got to have a cycle computer of some kind. At the very least, you need to know your remaining battery capacity, so as to not unexpectedly run out of juice in an inconvenient location. It is important to know power usage, so as to better ration that limited battery capacity, along with all the variables associated with it (pack voltage, amps, watts, watt-hours, amp-hours, distanced traveled, Wh/mile, speed (current, average, top), etc). Then, of course, are other electronics specifically for battery monitoring, some right down to the individual cells, voltmeters for the weakest subpacks, analog ammeters, etc. And we can't forget the very useful GPS setups, for very accurately measuring speed, elevation change, distance traveled, and those handy navigation features.
As you use your ebike, you'll find you want some of the aforementioned handlebar accessories (to phrase it politely). Really, you will. I think you'll find the CA to be indispensable (I feel like I'm flying blind without mine). Of course, others will still make you scratch your head, even after becoming familiar with the bikes and their owners.
lazarus2405
10 kW
Of course, you forgot to mention mirrors, cup holders, video players,
Some nice examples:
Some nice examples:
Mark_A_W
100 kW
Toshi, when you ride down a pitch black, pot-holed dirt road at 40km/h, you'll wish you had a full suspension bike with a nice comfy seat and AIRCRAFT LANDING LIGHTS
When you have no idea what your battery is up to, the tape and multimeter will appear..
When you start breaking a normal bike, you'll wish you had modded a downhill bike. (I'm planning on swapping platforms from a XC dually to a downhill dually).
Hitting median strips at 30-40km/h really trashes a XC bike, and loading it with motors, batteries and my backpack full of stuff doesn't help.
I've broken myriad spokes on my non-motor rear wheel (mine is the first bike above, the Jamis), a pedal, a rear rack and two rims.
My suspension is not poor quality, and I shudder at those who convert Walmart bikes..my forks are Marzocchi Bombers, the rear is a Fox Float Vanilla R.
Your roadbike converted to an ebike, and ridden properly (as in really hard, show no mercy, stick it to the evil cars!), would last about 5 minutes...
My bike is my principal mode of transport - it's a "car" not a "bike". 5000k's in the last year, compared to 2000k's on the car. It is built for a purpose, and that is not the purpose of the lycra brigade. It gets me to work, via the safest route, which happens to have a couple of k's of bad dirt road, and it's DARK at night.
Why don't you convert a decent dually instead of the grandma bike? I for one do not want to shake the crap out of $600 worth of batteries!
Mark
When you have no idea what your battery is up to, the tape and multimeter will appear..
When you start breaking a normal bike, you'll wish you had modded a downhill bike. (I'm planning on swapping platforms from a XC dually to a downhill dually).
Hitting median strips at 30-40km/h really trashes a XC bike, and loading it with motors, batteries and my backpack full of stuff doesn't help.
I've broken myriad spokes on my non-motor rear wheel (mine is the first bike above, the Jamis), a pedal, a rear rack and two rims.
My suspension is not poor quality, and I shudder at those who convert Walmart bikes..my forks are Marzocchi Bombers, the rear is a Fox Float Vanilla R.
Your roadbike converted to an ebike, and ridden properly (as in really hard, show no mercy, stick it to the evil cars!), would last about 5 minutes...
My bike is my principal mode of transport - it's a "car" not a "bike". 5000k's in the last year, compared to 2000k's on the car. It is built for a purpose, and that is not the purpose of the lycra brigade. It gets me to work, via the safest route, which happens to have a couple of k's of bad dirt road, and it's DARK at night.
Why don't you convert a decent dually instead of the grandma bike? I for one do not want to shake the crap out of $600 worth of batteries!
Mark
Toshi
10 kW
Mark_A_W said:
First off, I do plan on using a Cycle Analyst, of course. Knowing the state of charge and current draw seem useful tidbits. However, I'm not planning on loading down my bike with other sundry items. I value cleanliness, and frankly I think many of the bikes above are hideous.
Why not convert a dually? Good question. Several reasons:
1) I've done an acceptable job of dodging potholes so far -- again, my 2000-era road bike is still on its original set of wheels, and I haven't even had to break out the spoke wrench to true them up!
2) I've run and broken seatpost racks before. In particular, I did a full-on tour on a dual suspension mountain bike with slicks, with a seatpost rack and rigged up panniers (with bungie cords to allow for suspension motion). The bike was a Proflex 550 if that helps place it in time. 8)
3) The bike's going to be heavy enough as it is thanks to the hub motor and the bear of a rim to which it is laced. 5 or 10 extra pounds is not something I'll take on lightly, har har.
4) I want an internally geared rear hub because I want a clean chainline and the possibility of having a full length chainguard. Derailleur setups, let alone the weirdness that happens when you introduce a swingarm, wreak all sorts of havoc that I'd rather avoid.
5) The Novara Transfer is a pretty awesome deal for a new bike, in my opinion. I'd rather have it as a fresh platform, and grudgingly add front suspension should the dire predictions come to fruition, instead of starting with someone's clapped out ride off of craigslist (or, alternately, spending more money than I'd wish now).
My old downhill ride:
Yours truly in action upon it:
Mark_A_W
100 kW
That looks perfect 
Electrify that. It'd be awesome. Ok, it'd need a front derailleur, and some slicks, but it's close.
Electrify that. It'd be awesome. Ok, it'd need a front derailleur, and some slicks, but it's close.
Toshi
10 kW
Mark_A_W said:That looks perfect
Electrify that. It'd be awesome. Ok, it'd need a front derailleur, and some slicks, but it's close.
Well, that's pretty much what the Jackal is, no? I think it's no accident that its makers opted to not have pedals or a bike drivetrain...
I picked up the Novara Transfer just now so the deed is done.
Mark_A_W
100 kW
What's a Jackal?
If it doesn't have pedals, it's a motorbike. I'm not into motorbikes...
You need pedals...they get you home when the electrics break!!
And it's a hybrid - you get exercise. I still get a lot of exercise pedalling despite the motor - I can't sit on a bike and not pedal, it's just wrong
If it doesn't have pedals, it's a motorbike. I'm not into motorbikes...
You need pedals...they get you home when the electrics break!!
And it's a hybrid - you get exercise. I still get a lot of exercise pedalling despite the motor - I can't sit on a bike and not pedal, it's just wrong
Toshi
10 kW
info below from a gigantic thread i made on another board about alternative personal transportation devices
The Jackal. http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/jackal_home.htm
$3400, made in the USA. 15 hp, 130 lbs. speed up to 30 mph (45 mph for the uprated version), claimed range of 15-35 mi depending on model. 4 12 volt 20 amp-hour sealed lead acid batteries.
kbarrett
10 kW
You don't have to go the suspension route.
That Transfer with a set of beach cruiser tires will be able to take potholes just fine.
Once I got rid of the Crystalite stock "anti-metal" spokes, my 'bent has been doing just fine on commutes with a set of Schwalbe Big Apples.
That Transfer with a set of beach cruiser tires will be able to take potholes just fine.
Once I got rid of the Crystalite stock "anti-metal" spokes, my 'bent has been doing just fine on commutes with a set of Schwalbe Big Apples.
Toshi
10 kW
I worked on the electric bike project tonight for about three and a half hours (9:15 PM - 12:45 AM. My neighbors must think I'm crazy):
- moved rear reflector on the back of the rack an inch or so to the side and mounted the flasher that came cinched to the seat tube next to it. now it's like a VW car with one "dead" taillight...
- removed the kickstand, only to later reinstall it after feeling how top-heavy the bike is...
- swapped out the funky plush REI seat for my trusty WTB SST.K saddle
- swapped out the funky REI sweep bars for my trusty Answer Protapers, which have long straight sections that are ideal for mounting controls
- lowered the stem as far as possible, moving the spacers above it
- with much ado removed the grips. Now I remember why I switched to Lock-Ons on all my other bikes...
- moved the twist shifter for the rear hub to the left grip, mounted upside down, and mounted the twist throttle for the electric setup on the right in its newly vacated location
- carefully removed the generator front wheel/front light setup that came stock on the donor bike (Novara Transfer). This will be sold soon.
- swapped the tube and tire from the original front wheel to the electric hub motor one
- crammed this wheel with hub motor into the dropouts. It has 12mm threaded dropouts with 10mm ground-down flat sections, and is a tight fit. This is good since the torque at the dropouts is HUGE, as the lever arm is very short.
- rigged up a torque arm to lower forces at the dropout by lengthening the lever arm using one 10mm wrench, two hose clamps, a plastic bag, and a ziptie . I first rigged this up on the right side ahead of the fork but thought better of it, and moved it to the left. My middle-of-night force diagram in my head might be backwards, but I think it belongs on the left if ahead of the fork.
- mounted the Swagman rack trunk to the rear rack, placing it as far back as it would go so that it can open up fully while clearing the seat. I dropped the 48V 12Ah LiFePO4 battery in there once mounted, and it fit with several inches to spare.
- mounted the motor controller to the downtube, using the upper bottle cage bolt on the lower end of the controller's mounting plate, and zipties on the upper end . The lengths of the various wires on the controller worked out best when it was in the main triangle. Otherwise the rear rack trunk may have been a nice place for it.
- mounted the Cycle Analyst on the bars, and migrated my front flasher/light from the road bike to this one
- hooked everything up except for the battery, using zipties and velcro cable organizers (much like Lizard Skins of yore) here and there
- adjusted the brakes at some length: the rim on the electric hub motor wheel is a lot wider than the OEM item and is not dished properly (off to the left by maybe 5mm), so i had to set the brakes up to accommodate this.
- rode it around in this state (no battery connection) to make sure things were mechanically sound. The Cycle Analyst display would light up but not display anything when I was cruising about on human power.
- finally, I hooked up the battery while holding the front wheel safely off the ground, with the key on the controller in the off (? red) position. No drama when I did so, and nothing when I twisted the throttle.
- turned the key on, and the same. Nothing when twisting the throttle.
- hitting the red button on the back of the controller yielded a "Cycle Analyst v2.1" boot screen briefly but nothing after that.
Now I'm quite tired. I'm glad nothing blew up, although it's mildly disappointing that I didn't get everything working in one night. I have a feeling I just need to read the Cycle Analyst and Crystalyte controller manuals online to see how to start the thing up properly...
- moved rear reflector on the back of the rack an inch or so to the side and mounted the flasher that came cinched to the seat tube next to it. now it's like a VW car with one "dead" taillight...
- removed the kickstand, only to later reinstall it after feeling how top-heavy the bike is...
- swapped out the funky plush REI seat for my trusty WTB SST.K saddle
- swapped out the funky REI sweep bars for my trusty Answer Protapers, which have long straight sections that are ideal for mounting controls
- lowered the stem as far as possible, moving the spacers above it
- with much ado removed the grips. Now I remember why I switched to Lock-Ons on all my other bikes...
- moved the twist shifter for the rear hub to the left grip, mounted upside down, and mounted the twist throttle for the electric setup on the right in its newly vacated location
- carefully removed the generator front wheel/front light setup that came stock on the donor bike (Novara Transfer). This will be sold soon.
- swapped the tube and tire from the original front wheel to the electric hub motor one
- crammed this wheel with hub motor into the dropouts. It has 12mm threaded dropouts with 10mm ground-down flat sections, and is a tight fit. This is good since the torque at the dropouts is HUGE, as the lever arm is very short.
- rigged up a torque arm to lower forces at the dropout by lengthening the lever arm using one 10mm wrench, two hose clamps, a plastic bag, and a ziptie
. I first rigged this up on the right side ahead of the fork but thought better of it, and moved it to the left. My middle-of-night force diagram in my head might be backwards, but I think it belongs on the left if ahead of the fork.- mounted the Swagman rack trunk to the rear rack, placing it as far back as it would go so that it can open up fully while clearing the seat. I dropped the 48V 12Ah LiFePO4 battery in there once mounted, and it fit with several inches to spare.
- mounted the motor controller to the downtube, using the upper bottle cage bolt on the lower end of the controller's mounting plate, and zipties on the upper end
. The lengths of the various wires on the controller worked out best when it was in the main triangle. Otherwise the rear rack trunk may have been a nice place for it.- mounted the Cycle Analyst on the bars, and migrated my front flasher/light from the road bike to this one
- hooked everything up except for the battery, using zipties and velcro cable organizers (much like Lizard Skins of yore) here and there
- adjusted the brakes at some length: the rim on the electric hub motor wheel is a lot wider than the OEM item and is not dished properly (off to the left by maybe 5mm), so i had to set the brakes up to accommodate this.
- rode it around in this state (no battery connection) to make sure things were mechanically sound. The Cycle Analyst display would light up but not display anything when I was cruising about on human power.
- finally, I hooked up the battery while holding the front wheel safely off the ground, with the key on the controller in the off (? red) position. No drama when I did so, and nothing when I twisted the throttle.
- turned the key on, and the same. Nothing when twisting the throttle.
- hitting the red button on the back of the controller yielded a "Cycle Analyst v2.1" boot screen briefly but nothing after that.
Now I'm quite tired. I'm glad nothing blew up, although it's mildly disappointing that I didn't get everything working in one night. I have a feeling I just need to read the Cycle Analyst and Crystalyte controller manuals online to see how to start the thing up properly...
