Designing Folding ebike for Carribean Bike Touring

flyingbeekeeper

flyingbeekeeper

10 W
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
72
Location
Austin Texas
So yea, I do a lot of travel, and now that I've cut my chops on a few builds I want to build an ebike for 1-2 week bike tours overseas, mainly Caribbean nations.
I have some questions for my fellow ESers who have Downtubes.

I was going to PM the resident Downtube converting expert, mwkeefer, but then realized whatever feedback he'd give me would be unavailable to other Es folks.

First, I have specs:
1. I need to ship via a plane in a standard suitcase (avoiding the $125-250 bike ship fee). Therefore bike plus suitcase must be under 50 lb. 40lb better for lesser known airlines.
2. I suspect many locations I will travel too my have steep hills. A mid drive is probably the best choice.
3. Stealth is an issue on the ebike part, it will draw attention anyway as an odd touring bike. I just don't want local authorities to give me heat. Therefore, either a small rear hub motor or a mid drive like the Bafang. The battery will be in a pannier and hidden.
4. I don't need speed over 20 Mph
5. I have to have a rack and panniers and probably a handlebar bag.
6. Quiet motor. I hate noisy motors. Bosch has a quiet one, and the Bafang seems quiet too.

Givens:
1. Battery problem not a issue. I will either
a. Slow ship the battery ahead or
b. Build an airline legal one. The airline policy is I can carry 2 spare LiPo/LiFePo batteries of no more than 180 W-hrs see https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...edia/faa_airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf So I will custom build a two part battery from 18650s.
2. Budget $2,000
3. Bafang motor is 9lb
4. Weight of battery is irrelevant, as it must travel in carry-on


Question #1:
There have been some success from ES folks on converting Downtube Novas. I'm leery about aluminum frames, but I'm not going to be riding my bike hard or offroading much. Because of weight issues, I think I have to go aluminum. Is this a good choice?

Question #2:
Downtube has 3 interesting makes, the Nova, the 9FS and the 9SP. Has anyone converted these and which is best suited for a touring ebike?

Question #3:
What am I overlooking in the design process?
 
You have set up quite a challenge for yourself. A lot depends on how the airlines currently defines a 'normal' suitcase. A typical folding frame is almost certainly going to attract 'unwanted' attention. Another alternative might be a frame that 'splits'. The bicycle shown below probably does not suit your goals but notice to two areas of the frame that are circled. Those S&S couplings 'unscrew' so that the rear triangle can be separated from the front portion and packed into a smaller case. Just something to keep in mind as you consider the challenge.SplitFrame.jpgSpiltFrameDetail.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271951419192?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
about the battery i would use a 36V 10s one for your speed requirements. And made with lithium-ion chemistry in order to maximize to the maximum energy density and spefici energy in order to pick it with you in the plane
 
Will you fly more than once during the trip?

Fly with a 20" wheel kit, that bolts to any 20" BMX bike? Just saying, buying a cheap bike and then dumping it when you leave can be an option.

Definitely on the right track for flying the battery. Also consider some kind of way to receive a battery while you are there. Like arrange to mail it to a hotel where you will be staying. Again, small enough to be legal. Don't depend on it, but perhaps get a bit more capacity to the vacation location if possible to do it easy.
 
dogman dan said:
Will you fly more than once during the trip?

Fly with a 20" wheel kit, that bolts to any 20" BMX bike? Just saying, buying a cheap bike and then dumping it when you leave can be an option.

Definitely on the right track for flying the battery. Also consider some kind of way to receive a battery while you are there. Like arrange to mail it to a hotel where you will be staying. Again, small enough to be legal. Don't depend on it, but perhaps get a bit more capacity to the vacation location if possible to do it easy.
Click to expand...


Yes, this bike will fly many many times. Even after 5 trips, that is 10 flights, which avoids ~$200x10=$2,000 in bike flying fees.

The battery problem has several solutions, 1. ship ahead 2. bring along flight-legal or 3. call ahead to an ebike shop and rent or even buy (then ship back after tour and sell off) But I don't want the post to be about the battery, it is about the questions I posted.
 
The other issue is I don't think you can check a spare lithium battery. They say something to the effect of "uninstalled batteries are prohibited". See here.

I didn't read the whole thing but after skimming it looks like loose batteries over 100wh are prohibited. You might be able to get away with calling it "installed" if its a bottle-type battery and remains on your bike frame whilst flying.

As for foldables you might try Bike Friday.
 
Airlines won't allow any batteries larger than lap top batteries, period.
I bit the bullet and shipped my Ebike to Anquilla a couple of years ago.
I was there working for a year and having the Ebike there was great, but I regretted it in the end.
To send it home, the shipper told me 6 weeks, but the bike sat in a hot warehouse for 6 Months!
Turns out, Anquilla exports nothing and ships taking things out are few and far between.
My $700 Li-ion battery died in the warehouse :twisted:
 
Mostly anywhere you can rent a scooter, so why bother with traveling your ebike. Makes more sense to travel a plain lightweight bicycle that is built for touring, that may be hard to find on a trip. For motorization, if you really need to bring yours, I believe you could get away anywhere with a small friction drive.
 
MadRhino said:
Mostly anywhere you can rent a scooter, so why bother with traveling your ebike. Makes more sense to travel a plain lightweight bicycle that is built for touring, that may be hard to find on a trip. For motorization, if you really need to bring yours, I believe you could get away anywhere with a small friction drive.
Click to expand...

Those all fail #6 spec.
I'm after feedback on the 3 questions.
 
LewTwo said:
"External chargers are also considered to be a battery. "
That is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I believe they are referring to accessory phone charger batteries... You know the little plastic case with a usb port and a lithium battery inside?
 
...and I may have missed the "givens" section of your initial post flyingbeekeeper... oops. Didn't mean to pollute your thread...
 
The Swift Folder has one of the best designs for simplicity and structural integrity. It has proven to be adaptable to many different configurations. It doesn't have the most compact fold, but it's definitely within suitcase range.

swift203.jpg
 
I've been following the Swift folder for some time, and they say it will fit in a suitcase with some disassembly which seems fine for your requirements. They have an electric model, and this folding bike, unlike most folding bikes, takes standard components, so customizing your own ebike model and fitting it with ebike kits and parts is straightforward. I have not seen a mid-drive done with the Swift, but many have done hubmotors. Xootr manufactures a commercial aluminum framed version, and the designer in New York makes both steel and aluminum custom units. The aluminum Swift as made by Xootr is lighter than most folders at just over 20 pounds and can be made lighter by swapping some parts, and it is very stiff so it handles well and does not waste as much rider energy as most folders do.
 
Well, based on mwkeefer posts on the Downtube folding bike conversions, I going with Downtube full suspension model. I called the company today and spoke with Yan about my plan, and he actually had lived in the American Virgin Islands and knew the conditions I was up against. Full suspension, add a rack and handlebar bag. So I've ordered the Downtube FS bike.

Next will be selecting the right rack, build the battery(s), find a container to mount the battery on a water bottle mount, and find a useable means to ship it in.
 
It is hard to search for Downtube on a bike forum, lots of false hits.

Here's a thread on folding bike selection for an ebike:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42133

I recall some discussion of problems, here is one search that turned up some related hits, within the thread mentioned above:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=downtube&t=42133&sf=msgonly

Using a folding bike in ebike service puts stress beyond what most of them ever experience. Make sure it is up to the task.
 
I noticed yesterday that a Y-shaped frame I have from a cheap full-suspension bike fits within the O.D. of a 26" wheel with tyre.
 
I converted a Downtube FS with a Mac kit from EM3EV. All works well, but it's heavy. The FS will not likely fit into any airline legal suitcase.

 
flyingbeekeeper said:
Well, based on mwkeefer posts on the Downtube folding bike conversions, I going with Downtube full suspension model. I called the company today and spoke with Yan about my plan, and he actually had lived in the American Virgin Islands and knew the conditions I was up against. Full suspension, add a rack and handlebar bag. So I've ordered the Downtube FS bike.

Next will be selecting the right rack, build the battery(s), find a container to mount the battery on a water bottle mount, and find a useable means to ship it in.
Click to expand...

Please follow up with this thread and show off your results! Curious about this myself.
 
SesameCrunch said:
The FS will not likely fit into any airline legal suitcase.
Click to expand...
So just out of curiosity what is the current definition of legal suitcase size?
I found this on Delta's website.

Main Cabin (read as sardine class):
50 lbs (23 kg)
62 inches (157 cm) when you total length+width+height
You also have to pay $25 for each one of these.

First Class:
70 lbs (32 kg)
62 inches (157 cm) when you total length+width+height

Examples (outside dimensions):
24 inches square by 14 inches deep
25 inches square by 12 inches deep
26 inches square by 10 inches deep
27 inches square by 8 inches deep
28 inches square by 6 inches deep

20 x 30 inches rectangle by 12 inches deep
22 x 30 inches rectangle by 10 inches deep
22 x 34 inches rectangle by 6 inches deep
 
I would practice pedaling more 1
I think you are underestimating the risk of shipping the battery
i dont see a home made battery pack making it past security checks without serious delays if not confiscation.
( yes , they just seize stuff and throw it away !)
 
YoSamES said:
Are the forks steel?
Click to expand...
According to this review it is 'All Aluminum'.
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/latest-bikes/folding-bike/downtube/viii/prd_347004_5671crx.aspx
On the other hand I see what appears to be rust at the bottom of the fork in this picture.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=89e88bd8cbc929ecfb2790b23de2e9df&attachmentid=149026&d=1298279760
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Crazyhorse KRZNDN
    • Like
Micargi Cyclone Deluxe 500W Rear Hub Brushless motor Stretch Cruiser, pedal assist only, convert to Throttle? HELP. 😊
Replies
12
Views
983
Chalo
Chalo
E
    • Like
Big battery (~4000Wh) for long off-grid touring
Replies
4
Views
811
faxineirooculto
F
R
Determining how to charge Bosch smart battery off solar/another option.
Replies
11
Views
958
amberwolf
amberwolf
M
Ebike Initial Thoughts - buy new or buy a kit to convert an old bike?
2
Replies
29
Views
1,512
stancecoke
stancecoke
M
Polarna Custom 52v Issues - Overheating, power cutoff, and seat options
Replies
4
Views
245
amberwolf
amberwolf
Back
Top