DH dual motor = LR mid drive + Grin all-axle front hub

[John Bozi]

Cheers Marin, Feel sorry for having to wait months to get out...

I tried to make a vid of the pump track but came off the bike softly and laid it down putting the weight of the bike on the cranks, somehow both came loose, so had to cut it short...

[youtube]du-uDkp3zzg[/youtube]

 

[Marin]

Don't have to feel sorry John I got to ride to work today, but I'll be riding home in the rain.

Take care and try not to come off

 

[John Bozi]

Marin,

wish I had somewhere I could safely park at work. It would cut an hour out of the day that I dread, and turn into something fun and positive.

Maybe next year I should pay for secure bike parking? but it just goes against everything to pay $250 a year for it....!

I can park it with other bicycles but the weather and damage others could do to it or get stolen is what stops me.... I have done it in the past a few times when I lost my licence.....

Ride 3 update

So I have now ridden this new wheel harder and longer than the last one. I missed the delivery today of my emv3 infineon 12 fet 40a controller but will stick around for it tomorrow. I was kind of umming and ahring about putting it on this intense bike (although I bought it knowing either the intense or my double motor could use it).

Now with the 3kw bits of riding that I have done I am finding it hard to want to limit myself. My skills are improving with the feeling of the bike and the CA throttle settings have tamed the complex parts that I can blast up the mountain two to three times faster than I used to with the bafang. The controller is still not getting hot and I can't push the motor to touch 50 degrees C. When I set the CA it overshoots by a few amps, so peak is 43a somewhere over 3kw and definately have done about 100 - 200 metres continuously WOT up the mountain. Sure I "waste" power because I can climb it at half that, but ITS SO MUCH FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

I have been upping the amps in increments of 5 so next ride report will probably be 45 (overshooting to 8) I know I should stop and just ride this is in a way it might last longer but I could go snort $200 worth of coke to get my kicks or I could just break another $200 wheel. Too old for coke but my pay check can cash in another wheel.

(safe bet is to say the 40a controller will go on the road bike)

 

[ferret]

Marin,

wish I had somewhere I could safely park at work. It would cut an hour out of the day that I dread, and turn into something fun and positive.

Maybe next year I should pay for secure bike parking? but it just goes against everything to pay $250 a year for it....!

Pay about $1 a day to turn an hour of pain into fun!?

I wish someone offered me a similar deal!

Avner.

 

[John Bozi]

Marin,

wish I had somewhere I could safely park at work. It would cut an hour out of the day that I dread, and turn into something fun and positive.

Maybe next year I should pay for secure bike parking? but it just goes against everything to pay $250 a year for it....!

Pay about $1 a day to turn an hour of pain into fun!?

I wish someone offered me a similar deal!

Avner.

More like $2.50 and if it rains I still pay $2.50 for the days I don't ride. The "security" in a caged area of a carpark which you get a pass for to open the door to a communal (probably 50 bikes fit). Last problem is none of bikes stand up in bicycle rack things well. I lean my bikes on the side of the handle bar everywhere I stop. There is nowhere like that in this space.....

Basically when using bike racks they are made for the front wheel because the backwheel has a disc brake easily bent when pushed up against or if the bike goes to fall over with all the extra weight of battery etc...

Yeah I might pay up if there was an individual bit of wall but a bit of rack wont work....

EDIT 1/1/16

Went with a mate for a ride with his 4065 which cooked a hall sensor half way through the ride. This morning I was doing a check on the bike and found my rear wheel had a bit of a rock and then noticed that the axle / bolt had loosened! Tightened up but man I had no idea and this could have become catastrophic flying over a hump or something. Then went checking around for other wobbles anywhere and found a loosened up chainring bolt that holds the 32t sprocket. So I got to pull that apart sometime before I can ride again.

Overall the only idea I am playing with is I wouldn't mind a bit more ground clearance for single track logs and rocks that lay as obstacles all over the place. I do clear them now but it very close and if put my weight down at the wrong moment I reckon I would twist up the bb stuff. I wonder if a smaller chainring would be plausible.

 

[Mammalian04]

Lol... Yes, there are worse vices in life!

 

[John Bozi]

As my readings on the CA always look perfect for ambient at the start of a ride but I have trouble believing are always under 50 C it's high time to get a second opinion.

Just ordered for $11AU an "IF" thermometer http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231797173480

My concern is that by hand touching the outside I am guessing the temps are much higher than the probe is saying on the CA. We will see....

 

[stevc]

I know you have already bought it but then there is the ebay curse, a better price or option you find out straight after you commit. Joking. just putting this one on the table.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pocket-IR-Infrared-Non-Contact-LCD-Digital-Thermometer-Black-50-C-to-300-C-IG-/261982248206?hash=item3cff5bdd0e

 

[John Bozi]

You are right there Steve, there was a pen even smaller and cheaper but I was thinking I liked the solid bigger one thinking it might work better for no reason at all....

anyways I should really start wearing my backpack for a bit of back protection.

Vid 1 camera angle wasn't right so I could use anti shake feature in editing. But being a bit shaky does give an indication of terrain although dam hard to watch.
[youtube]WtcENVb4fX8[/youtube]
Vid 2 is a very steep part got to overtake Oldhaq, bit sneaky, bit dangerous, but he has done it to me a million times....
[youtube]5vaxpnhSZLI[/youtube]
puncture
[youtube]RHNzmfopOkU[/youtube]
track back no music so you can hear a bit more.
[youtube]Z1sTWUaw70k[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

So it's been quiet around here for about a month.

Mike is true to his warranty for two issues since I have been running the kit.

The first was the untrue reduction shaft and the metal bit that tensions things replacement due to grub screw coming out and warping them a while back. I got those a while ago but the bike is running still wobbly and kind of keep shying away from the work.

The second warranty issue is the one that kept me off the road for a month. This was due to pedal strike partially at least. It had just got dark and right in the middle of an intersection the screw and grub screw that holds the sprocket on the motor came loose and I lost power since the keys and adapter fell out. I did roll to the side of the road but there way too much traffic be able to get back into the intersection. I tried going back early morning but could only see something in the centre that looked like it might have been the adapter but now looked like a crushed can, I still couldn't get to it because of the traffic.

Anyway I finally got all the bits and loctite the screw and grub screws.

I also see my chain ring nuts are loose again, tightened them up but probably should loctite them, just fear having to get them off again when I need a new final drive sprocket.

So yeah it was a great 5ah ride this morning. It's funny because I like blow 2 ah in explosive steep uphill and then just pedal once flat. Do that a couple of times and it's a dam fun and relaxing bit of exercise.

Oh and I did my temperature test. With the gun pictured above. The fins were 5 C degrees hotter than the CA reading. So even if the inside is 30 degrees hotter than the outside the motor is definitely in a comfort zone under 80 celcius.

 

[Marin]

Nice to see your back on the road John, I'm still waiting patiently for my motor to try, I know it will be worth the wait.

 

[John Bozi]

Nice to see your back on the road John, I'm still waiting patiently for my motor to try, I know it will be worth the wait.

Get used to waiting, I am happy having my on road bike too. I would go crazy otherwise. I find this bike and LR kit very therapeutic, teaching me about patience and the laws of physics.

This video was all recorded yesterday afternoon. So with the previous post of about 5ah ride and this one about 3 ahs. I am technically off line again.

I need to source out more nuts, I think I am short one set. Last time it took a few weeks to get the nuts....

[youtube]9WvQ3pL9ekI[/youtube]

 

[Marin]

I know there are some that might try welding those chain rings together,

nutz,

 

[John Bozi]

I know there are some that might try welding those chain rings together,

nutz,

chainring is alu
219 sprocket steel (I presume)

The heads are hitting into the kit too, the ongoing problem with the width of the big block on both sides.

Red loctite should solve the issue since I didn't use it until in this video. I was trying to avoid the pain of getting them off in future, but hopefully with my heatgun it should be ok.

 

[John Bozi]

I have been quite a few rides of late.

1. I did huge 25km off road one limited to 20 amps and was a little surprised that I was heating up since it was non stop and bogging down = I pedalled.

Interesting because I throw more power at it heats up to the same. So more power is not more heat. Heat is just about bogging down or not.

2. I learnt again today doing seriously steep really rough stuff that more power is not going to get you through seriously tough steep and tough terrain.

For me I need to be able to hold full throttle, get my pedals up to horizontal and stand up and take it. If I have too much power capable as I tried today, holding half throttle throws me and even with throttle taming I will flip the bike. So I must return to letting the bike bog down a bit. A bit under 50 amps is probably just right. 55 amps was like a frocking rodeo.

 

[Mammalian04]

Good to know.

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]0wlgnyPcpBs[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

I will keep editing this post till I get all the info out. It is long.

In a nutshell, we've got two bikes left down a mountain overnight. Mine is has two jammed chains, and for all I could see a missing chainring bolt/nut, and warped chainring. There will be no repairs as I just don't have the parts to fix.

We've had to take the day off work today and will go back up to get the bikes.

Our bodies are aching, and for me especially without being able to power the bike to atleast push it up it will be a long day. I barely have the energy to walk to the bike, or walk back let alone push the bike up anymore 40% +

The right turn after the shelter basically had parts where my rear wheel was constantly skidding for hundreds of metres. The return up from the creek is over 200m of elevation in what looked short, but took more than hour to walk without a bike.

 

[Marin]

Well John looking on the brighter side your plan to test the limits of your setup is working perfectly.

Sorry to hear about your predicament, these rigs are pretty heavy and awkward to push home.

 

[slofy]

Hub motors ftw!

 

[John Bozi]

Hub motors definately have less moving parts but the hub motored bike still was pushed 95% of the way on the same trail.

Here's a shot an hour or two before sunset during the happy times.

Apart from testing the limits on rough bumpy terrain I barely exceeded 3kw on this whole ride.

 

[slofy]

I was just kidding, glad you're ok guys. Just out of curiosity, how did it happen exactly?

 

[John Bozi]

I am not offended never mind.

What happened is always a mystery that I need time to make multiple guesses.

2 chainring nuts gone

Jammed chains

warped chainring

It could be:

1. A stick flew into the works

2. A rock flew into the works

3. One nut / bolt gave up after stress which then stressed out another one and then finally the ring stressed and warped....

4. The wobble in the freewheel finally added up to too much movement derailing chain which sent a reaction through everything

5. The bicycle chain finally got to enough stretch to derail for the first time which then knocked out the 219 or vise versa.


My favorite for now is the chainring nuts/bolts failed caused by repeated hits against the motor as a result of poor design (too wide a motor for the BB) , I will have to be offline for at least a few months as it is time to start back to what I have thought the root cause of repeated fails. If things fail after that then I worked out that it wasn't that and move on.

Another pick of happy times

 

[slofy]

Ah, that sucks, thanks for the insight mate. Hope it can be fixed soon and you can be off to happy times again.

 

[Nathan]

I think half the problem is the LR kit is just a prototype and LR doesn't even test any of these parts? and uses the customers as the guinea pigs to see what will break? with the big block it has so much torque bike parts simply can't handle that power. Maybe if the crank RPM was higher like the cyclone kits then you could get more power to the wheel with the same bicycle geartrain, but having such a low crank RPM with high torque simply bends bike parts too easy due to the torque loads and this is only at 3kw peak too which is nothing special.

Normally onroad use that is fine to experiment but this Big block kit should come with a warning it seems as offroad u can't push or peddle home deep in the forest is a worst case scenario- stranded in the middle of knowhere.

For this type of offroad extreme rideing you want the most reliable setup possible mid or hub or low power. Having something high power, heavy and unreliable is just a bad situation waiting to happen.

Maybe you need a stealth bike if you need so much power ?