DH dual motor = LR mid drive + Grin all-axle front hub

[John Bozi]

I do agree with a lot of you are saying.

My next route to try is not using bicycle chainring nuts and bolts, and pushing out the chainring away from the motor.

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-chainwheel.htm

I don't know what issues I will face going to square taper and this bb, dont know of another product.

EDIT just had to add another sweet pic of the ride

Edit 2

Have pulled apart the kit,

have lost all 4 bushings, 2 chainrings totally gone 2 stuck on with no heads so the red loctite held up a bit.

The LR adapter looks like the chainring holes have been stretched.... which is probably the worst thing that can happen.

the e thirteen guide ring may have been a poor choice. I have measured it and it is 4.9mm. Where as the chainring with ramps that Mike sent is 2mm. With dips that would have probably sheltered the heads that is if they were on the right side. Not sure which way it was meant to go on, but I avoided it because it was not single speed but made to be used with a set of chainrings shifting.

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]eF5XrStwQg8[/youtube]
raw unedited

 

[John Bozi]

Yesterday I went on a shopping spree at SBP

1 x Chainring - Freewheel - 24 Tooth (SBP-CR024) = $5.95
1 x Chainring - Freewheel - 30 Tooth (SBP-CR030) = $6.95
1 x Front Freewheel - Heavy Duty (SBP-HDFW) = $79.95
1 x Chainring Hardware (SBP-CRK001) = $4.49
1 x Freewheel Spider - 4 Arm 104 mm (SBP-4A104) = $21.95
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $119.29
US Postal Service (Shipping to AU : 2.6 lb(s)): $26.00
Total: $145.29

and that be US so double it for AU!

I only really wanted the 30t, but thought all the other stuff might help with the shipping. Stuff that I will probably never use is the spider, but who knows, I already own an hd freewheel and it would allow me to to use whatever 104 I want on my hub motor bike....
The 24t might be a spacer.
the freewheel well one day I will need a replacement...

Looking for spacers for the cranks to freewheel, closest thing I could find & Just ordered minutes ago.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151913812672
Ideally I wanted 21mm x 28-34mm spacers, but this is all I could find at 22.3 ID x (I think) 28.5mm.
even if they overhand they won't go to far and they aren't doing much but stopping stuff go inward a bit. Hopefully they are strong enough...

EDIT

If this area I marked in yellow were redesigned as in pulled inward clearance issues would not happen.

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]TP6OCB25Zds[/youtube]

EDIT

Just an idea from gng... an exta bearing probably 21 ID sitting on the sleeve. It could machined for the 5 hole freewheel bolts or even the 104 bcd.

EDIT

Would love something like this for the BB https://www.mikesxs.net/parts/yamaha-xs650-clamp-on-530-spring-loaded-chain-tensioner

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]0bdAmuhy-vQ[/youtube]

Update to build, I have a cracked jackshaft which is proving too hard to get the sprocket off because the mild steel adapter has moulded into the shaft and sprocket. The primary side was hard to get off too. I dremeled a line into one of the screws to be able to unscrew it with a screw driver after the head lost its teeth and then used a bearing puller to pull off the freewheel. The puller must be smaller than the shaft otherwise it tries pull into itself and well even if its the same size it will feed the adapter onto the bearing puller hard to get that off too....

NOw I need to undo most of the kit off the bike to get the drive into a safer position to be able to apply force to it for the stubborn secondary sprocket...

I might as well undo everything including all the controller wiring since there is lots of shortening I had been putting off... and I am off duty with this bike for a long time until I get another adapter at least.

EDIT

Just received my "spacers" and also quickly found the outside of the rear wheel bearing was quite similar to space the freewheel outwards. All I can say is the more I space the worse the chainline gets to both the powered and back wheel. Hopefully whatever happens with replaceing the jackshaft I get some ability to space outwards because this is the end.

NO matter if I get a wider bottom bracket (if it were even perfect) the chainline will suffer ever mm I space outwards.

I am now running in circles. The rear wheel sprocket is as far comfortable with this system. It might be able to go out further with some other far fetched design.

Sometimes I think the actual LR motor holding brackets at the BB are the biggest problem that need to be redesigned.

In this picture you can see where my chainring nuts smash under load even if they are ok at the start of a ride.

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]NUGdxW77Vzk[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]F1-DcwzNVTo[/youtube]
[youtube]pmpEaaK4YeI[/youtube]
We should have camped here

EDIT

Just ordered these bearings for the jackshaft

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331569175083

5 Pcs 6001RS 12mm x 28mm x 8mm Rubber Shielded Deep Groove Ball Bearing for $7.68au shipped

 

[John Bozi]

shame about the brake line

[youtube]UZgU6n2maOw[/youtube]

 

[drew12345]

Still a great vid! Love your trailz.

 

[John Bozi]

You would have loved the push on the other side of this Valley...

[youtube]f9UHpKhe6MM[/youtube]

 

[drew12345]

I can see why u left the bikes there. I'm surprised u found your way back in the dark. At least u weren't by yourself.

 

[John Bozi]

So it's been a month exactly to get all the parts to do the repairs. Dam living in Australia has it's drawbacks with building.

And of course it is the end of my two week holidays!

Building the bike up never is simple.

Because I pulled apart bit of the kit, I left it the bolts out... should have taped over the holes.

1.
We got these bloody insects mud dauber wasps or something that find holes fill them with eggs and clay shit. I can't get it all out making the threading weak and jamming dirt inside.....

2. using a BB tool luckily I could hit the outside of the bearings into place, but they need to be whacked in below the housing line so that the shaft doesn't have play.... not sure how to do this without making a custom ala grind the center out of a new bearing of this size.... (will leave the play on for now)

3. The biggest problem, the overly weak threads on the bearing / jackshaft housing make getting the collars back on impossible. The threads were clearly damaged in the centre where they touch against the sheets which were not a problem if not removing the inner collars. but the outer threading I didn't think was this impossible to be fed back onto.... I am now scratching my head lost again for a solution or needing to wait another month to order the housing again.... or fabricating a different system to clamp the outside tensioner in.

4. The new circlip system doesn't looks strong enough but I will give it ago. You need to manually resqueeze them into shape after parting them to feed onto the shaft...
Sounds like a dodgy design that might see a loss of parts once again.... fingers crossed.

5. The torque brace was bent so will need to make a new one. It and various other warping failures point to what I believe to mean that I need to stick to 3kw or 40a @ 20s. If this be the case (sad resignation from my love of 50a) since everything is pulled apart, swap controllers with my black bike. I hate pulling stuff of a bike that is all tuned perfectly but Im not buying another controller...

Limiting this red bike to 40a sparks a bit of defeat in my heart. But I know that even at end of charge 3.5 (I dont like lower for bats) 70v x 40a = 2800w there isn't much sane steep stuff I can't climb. The aspirations of climbing the insane bike breaking stuff will have to be laid to rest for a future custom build.

I still haven't had time to work on the primary side but will need to shop around for a bolt to replace the one that was unremovable (which I had to grind into the head)

On other brain farts = I dream about making a lego steel kind of bike which would be my expensive kind of way to design a bike from ground up. Tons of bolts and nuts until it is alright and then take to get fabricated properly. My design dreams are a two speed transmission kick designed around a double ended inrunner with a clutch. Maybe start with a small pitbike wheel since all will be custom and this will determine the width of the swingarm.

Inexperienced builders will tell you since you use mid drive you dont need a small wheel, yet they speak without experience. The smaller wheel even run on a mid drive will lesson the strain on the drive train. It is always a sad trade off because I know from riding this bike how much better I can hammer the rough bits with a larger wheel.

anyways bla bla hope your all having fun on ya bikes.

 

[drew12345]

This is one of the main reasons not riding my mid drive is because of all the maintenance. There are several aspects I missed though but not worth it for me right now.

 

[stonezone]

3. The biggest problem, the overly weak threads on the bearing / jackshaft housing make getting the collars back on impossible. The threads were clearly damaged in the centre where they touch against the sheets which were not a problem if not removing the inner collars. but the outer threading I didn't think was this impossible to be fed back onto.... I am now scratching my head lost again for a solution or needing to wait another month to order the housing again.... or fabricating a different system to clamp the outside tensioner in.

throw that thing in the lathe and thread to your heart's content. For mine, I had similar issues, so i set the alignment as best I could, then I added a bolt to the crank side to lock it in place. The collars are NOT strong enough to keep it from moving under load.

 

[John Bozi]

3. The biggest problem, the overly weak threads on the bearing / jackshaft housing make getting the collars back on impossible. The threads were clearly damaged in the centre where they touch against the sheets which were not a problem if not removing the inner collars. but the outer threading I didn't think was this impossible to be fed back onto.... I am now scratching my head lost again for a solution or needing to wait another month to order the housing again.... or fabricating a different system to clamp the outside tensioner in.

throw that thing in the lathe and thread to your heart's content. For mine, I had similar issues, so i set the alignment as best I could, then I added a bolt to the crank side to lock it in place. The collars are NOT strong enough to keep it from moving under load.

was thinking of you while working on this bit... no lathe

lucky the primary side loosened up and got in on, the secondary is spaced out a bit still... no lathe near me how many times can lathe this too thinner sized collars

I was thinking a thin metal sheet and two bolts into the sheet solid and not finicky. it doesn't seem like it would see much sideways force anyways....

other issues I just discovered is the bb has quite a lot of resistance. There was a bit from new install, so not sure whether the weight from the motor instantly puts pressure on, but the resistance would add up to wasted human power watts only (hardly pedal anyways) It looks straight maybe the bearings are going....

getting tired of replacing parts, the kit and bike is up for sale to buyers that are happy to work on all the issues that it faces.

 

[John Bozi]

a tool no bike builder can live with out

SAVED MY COLLARS

 

[John Bozi]

Got a lot of time in today working on the bike.

Got the kit all working, even did a whole lot of soldering to swap over to the 12 fet and 3 speed switch....

Test ride.

Apart from a few tensioner things to work out.

I worked my way up with pedalling and then more and more power until at about 1000w..........

CLANK

I thought it was bit like chain skip, but a bit deeper. Couldn't see anything so tried again yea.... about 1000w CLANK again

then I discovered... the chain is live - it stopped being live and then started again with some weird sounds I havent heard before.

This is the evening of the last day of my holidays - run out of time and mojo - but I know something is going on in the rear hub I dont have time to investigate now...

This now points to another very possible very probable reason I had the last drive failure.

As I wheeled the bike forward the rear will force the chain forwards and make the bb spin and the jackshaft. It will do it but I can see the chain tension at the top doesn't like it. Pushing the chain forward with slack and the rear tensioner kicking up tighter a bit here and there looks liked this is what happened.

The rear hub stopped freewheeling pushing the chain off the front chainring jamming up and ripping the crap out of everything.

feeling devoed and pretty sick of this.

Chris King $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[John Bozi]

So the new rear Nuke Proof wheel failed at the rachets. Out of 30t (I think) there are about 10 chipped off and the rest look kind of blunt but dont know what they look like new...

I know the DT swiss is the way forward because the outer body wasnt a problem at all.

Anyway today I pulled out a hookworm and new tube and stuck them on the old wheel which I had replaced the bearings on. Took it for a test ride at night and it held up okish. I am paranoid because the rear axle has lost a bit of meat in the part that screws the freehub into place and also spaces the the hub from the dropouts.

the hookworm on the rear feels nice on the road. Solid and rolls nicely. actually looks shit hot bit more like an F1.... this wheel is temporary until I can't decide on whether I really want to continue dumping cash into this project.

Although my speed is just a touch faster, the hookworm does seem to roll quicker and waste less power. Only used an AH to the shops and around a bit. Then again I was being cautious building up power.

The three way switch is really nice.

I perfect to pedal along to
II Good for road saving power
III pulled up hills and top speed

Didn't get near 40a since I am babying this for a while or at least until I have a few beers tomorrow

There's no point in making this is a road bike even though it feels really solid on road. Must be the geo and weight distribution.

I know I shouldn't push this for a while at least until I get my black bike up and running again.

 

[drew12345]

Those hookworms are awesome for the street. But horrible the trails. I would slide everywhere.

 

[John Bozi]

Yeah I have used them in the past on trails, back isn't too bad but the front is seriously dangerous...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DT-Swiss-350-Rear-Hub-32h-12x150mm-Thru-Axle-6-Bolt-Disc-/252338330407?

Just ordered a dt swiss 350. $277au shipped

So it should be here in a few weeks, in the mean time I need to work out the 32h rim and spokes...

This will be my final payment I am willing to make on this bike, if one of the components I have already changed fails after that I vow I pulling apart everything and selling it off.

Or I may convert it to a hub motor for the street.

 

[drew12345]

Good hub from what I hear.

Curious, have u researched what lmx uses? I haven't heard him have problems. His mid drive and some others also use that big gear on the back. Not sure how they do that.

 

[John Bozi]

LMX doesnt run through a freewheel or have pedals to deal with so quite a different hub is possible. It is dangerous to have a live chain to the cranks with one freewheel.

Here are a couple of catch up videos that I should have posted a while back.

[youtube]DGeYpjf67Lc[/youtube]
[youtube]FACjRbersJo[/youtube]

I have since then gone for a couple of tests ride with only one clank in about 10ah of riding. I am not sure what it was but am praying it was not a rachet slip.

The 3 speed switch is absolutely sensational and can't go back to riding without it. When riding on setting 1 I keep thinking I should change out of it to make it up an upcoming hill, but it just keeps pulling more amps beautifully as needed to get through tricky terrain slowly....

Hookworms were fine except once I stopped concentrating and suddenly had to really try to skid the bike negotiating ruts and trees.

Was so good yesterday to ride off road after over a month.

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]3OyoLGYx1Nw[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

polymorph painted chainstay protector and temporary bb chain tensioner

 

[John Bozi]

The Mavic hookworm wheel died it's second death.

I had put brand new bearings in it. Same outer bearing is the one that failed again. At least I got in a few rides and didn't have to walk home...

Will be a month by the time I get the new hub and lace it all up...

Picture was taken minutes before the bearing collapsed.

Half the ride I rode at 25a and then upped to 30a as there was nowhere it would be enough to climb some parts.

The next picture head down in defeat.