Dillenger batteries????

[roundtoit]

Afternoon peeps, after some advice again on Dillenger 36v batteries. Tats (forum member) helped me out 18 odd months ago when my original dillenger battery decided to die after about 9 months.
The replacement dillenger supplied (under warranty) is now doing the same thing after 18 months of moderate use, 3 rides a week of about 30 kms during summer and not too much at all during winter.
Took the bike for a ride today after a good clean and pump up of the tyres (80 psi) and after about 4 kms going up a reasonable climb and peddaling hard on assistance level 3 of 5 the old girl cut out.
Turned around to ride home and the motor cut out as soon as any load is applied. Turn the battery off and on again and my battery indicator shows full but as soon as any load applied up a hill she cuts out again. Any members have experience with Dillenger batteries??
Cheers

 

[hedsik]

They only use good cells.
They'll also reply promptly to you on here as they do all related threads.
Going up a 4km long hill using an 18m old 36v battery is interesting.

 

[Sunder]

Could be one of two things:

1. One or more cells are faulty - Pack charges to the right level, but some cells are high while faulty ones are low voltage.

2. All cells are degraded - either they were poor quality to begin with, or they were mistreated (left in the sun on a hot day for example - 2-3 months of regularly being left in the sun on a 30*C day would kill most packs.)

Only way to find out is to take it apart and measure each cell. If one cell is lower than all the others, leave the whole pack on the charger to see if the gap closes. It'll be a very slow process - If it's say a 10 cell pack and 1 cell is faulty, the BMS needs to drain 9 cells, then charge all 10, then drain 9 cells, then charge all 10. If the differences in voltage haven't changed after 2-3 days, then the cell could be totally dead.

Even if you don't want to pull it apart, just leave it on the charger for a week, then go for another ride and see if the problem still happens. If the cell is weak but not dead, you might get to use it a bit more before it completely dies.

Or, since you suggest it's under warranty, maybe you can just arrange for an RMA.

 

[roundtoit]

Sorry, my bad. The hill was not 4km, i rode for about 4km then went up a hill, probably on 100m or so and the battery cut out.
Always charge my battery when home from ride and when I ride to work(15km) i charge at work and at home so battery never discharges fully.
Cheers

 

[Dillenger_Australia]

Could be one of two things:

1. One or more cells are faulty - Pack charges to the right level, but some cells are high while faulty ones are low voltage.

2. All cells are degraded - either they were poor quality to begin with, or they were mistreated (left in the sun on a hot day for example - 2-3 months of regularly being left in the sun on a 30*C day would kill most packs.)

Only way to find out is to take it apart and measure each cell. If one cell is lower than all the others, leave the whole pack on the charger to see if the gap closes. It'll be a very slow process - If it's say a 10 cell pack and 1 cell is faulty, the BMS needs to drain 9 cells, then charge all 10, then drain 9 cells, then charge all 10. If the differences in voltage haven't changed after 2-3 days, then the cell could be totally dead.

These are the two most likely scenarios, and without taking the battery apart and inspecting the cell packs at the bms for low voltage cells it can be quite hard to diagnose. Leaving the pack on charge to balance may bring the low cells back to the other cells voltage and may let you get some more riding out of the pack. Is the charger turning off once the battery has been on charge for a while? Do you notice the light turning red->green->red on the charger over a while of being charged which would show this balance procedure of charging all cells, then depleting the top charged cells down to the low cell level?

Or, since you suggest it's under warranty, maybe you can just arrange for an RMA.

Think you misinterpreted the post, he mentioned the battery being replaced under warranty after it went faulty in 9 months. However, this pack of his he has been running for 18 Months which is past our 12 month warranty on batteries.

-Adam

 

[Sunder]

Think you misinterpreted the post, he mentioned the battery being replaced under warranty after it went faulty in 9 months. However, this pack of his he has been running for 18 Months which is past our 12 month warranty on batteries.

-Adam

It appears I did. When he said "Under warranty", I took it to refer to the battery, not the replacement action. Apologies.

 

[roundtoit]

Thanks for replies.
After use when I charge battery the light on the charger goes red for some time then goes green and stays green.
I assume this means battery fully charged.
Is it usual to only get 18 months of light use out of these batteries?
It seems to defeat the purpose of electric bikes if you need to replace batteries so regularly.
Any advice on who (in Perth would be nice) can do a dismantle and check of my battery for faulty cells or is it pretty easy to do. What specialist equipment do you need to check cells?
Where would i buy a quality battery that would fit the Dillenger system?
Thanks again for advice
Regards Graeme

 

[Sunder]

Depends on the type of battery you bought. I see Dillinger sell SLA and Lithium Ion.

If it's SLA, then 18 months sounds about right.

If it's Lithium Ion, then either the cell quality was very poor, or the battery was not cared for.

I'd expect a well cared for Lithium Ion battery to last 3-5 years, depending on the how frequently and how deeply it was discharged. Bulkier, heavier LiFePo4 should last 8-10 years if cared for correctly.

 

[roundtoit]

Hi, yes, lithium ion and never discharged fully and always charged after use.
Must be poor quality cells, dissapointing as these Dillenger batteries are $499 and I would expect them to last.
So, how do I go about testing these cells?
What special equipment do I need?
Cheers again

 

[Sunder]

Hi, yes, lithium ion and never discharged fully and always charged after use.
Must be poor quality cells, dissapointing as these Dillenger batteries are $499 and I would expect them to last.
So, how do I go about testing these cells?
What special equipment do I need?
Cheers again

No "Special" equipment, just a $5 multi-meter or even plain voltameter from Jaycar or similar would be enough.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/hf6/h15/8815176581150/QM1502ImageMain-515Wx515H.jpg

Once you have it open, put up some photos and people can give you some tips as to what you need to do.

 

[roundtoit]

Thanks Sunder, I have the battery non charge as suggested by others, I will leave it on charge for a week then retest bike.
If not successful I will then attempt to dismantle battery
Cheers for the replies

 

[kdog]

Keeping your battery in a fully charged state when not in use is going to degrade it faster. Ideally keep it roughly 50% charged and charge before use. Probly not your problem right now but something to adopt in the future.

 

[sdp]

Hi I just bought a second hand kit with motor and battery.
Cuts out under load (if I don't throttle slowly), to the point of where it can't take off from a standstill without cutting out.

Wondering how I would know if this is the motor or the battery? Its a 36V 10Ah dillinger battery.
Following up to see how Op went too?
Im in Perth as well.

 

[amberwolf]

Hi I just bought a second hand kit with motor and battery.
Cuts out under load (if I don't throttle slowly), to the point of where it can't take off from a standstill without cutting out.

If there's no unusual noises, it's probably just the battery.

If the system has any display or lights that indicate power is on, then if they shut off during cutout, it typically indicates the batery has a BMS that is turning off output to protect cells against damage that can lead to fires.

If it does not, you'll need to some testing to find out which possible cause is true in your case. We'd start with the battery as it's the most common.

Do you have a voltmeter? If so, connect it red lead to battery positive, black lead to battery negative, set it to 200VDC. Watch the meter display as you roll up the throttle, and note down the voltage you see before you start and while riding and at cutout.

This will show how much voltage sag there is, and may show if there is a battery problem without opening up the battery.

Otherwise, you can open the battery casing and measure the voltage of the cells. If it's SLA, then there's three identical bricks inside, each with two terminals. Measure at each brick.

If it's lithium, then measure voltage between each pair of wires that goes to the long multiwire connector on the BMS board inside, being careful not to short any of them with the meter leads.